Atmel AVR32 vs Prop

ALIBE

I was having a very informal chat w/ someone abt Atmel AVR32 vs Prop - basically trying to understand Pros/Cons of the two platforms.· I was wondering if anyone here has an understanding of such a compare matrix of the 2 platforms.

can you share your ideas and input please

thanks in advance



▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"any small object, accidentally dropped, goes and hides behind a larger object."

·
ALIBE - Artificial LIfe BEing. In search of building autonoumous land robot

Martin Hebel

Looking it over, the AVR32 is a traditional high-end microcontroller. Dedicated peripherals, pins, interrupts, register upon register to set. It has some nice peripherals, but it's basically same-old thing. The propeller is what it is, multi-core with little dedicated peripherals. I know I would need a weekend of reading the 940 pages of the AVR32's datasheet to write a simple program to use a handful of its features.

Not saying which is better, it all depends on application, need, compiler and proficiency. If the AVR32 has features you need, such as direct USB, sounds like the better choice. Can You afford the cost of the C compiler and the time pouring over of the datasheets to find out what you need? Just rhetorical questions.

-Martin

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
StampPlot - GUI and Plotting, and XBee Wireless Adapters- Close out on Adapters!
Southern Illinois University Carbondale, Electronic Systems Technologies

Mike Green

I've never actually used an AVR32, but in reading the architecture manual, it seems like a conventional "mainframe" sort of processor from some years back with a general purpose register file, the usual round of instructions, interrupts, and a stack friendly design ... all on one chip. It would be a good fit for Linux or other general purpose operating system and probably needs something like that to "whip it into shape" so it's user/application friendly. It has a memory control unit and is designed for lots of memory (16MB and up), again ... operating system managed. It's clearly not a microcontroller/microprocessor in that it's not designed for bit twiddling, close deterministic timing, etc. It'd be a good fit for a router or firewall or small Linux workstation.

deSilva

I shall not contribute to this assessment, as it will most likely end in an "fundamental" argument, to my experience...
However I propose to additionally include a high end variant of the ARM7 in this investigation.

Note that there is no longer any gap between microcontroller based boards and PC-technology since Intel recently announced a mini-ITX board (D201 GLY) sporting a real 1,3 GHz-Celeron (rather than VIA's C3 processor), LAN, USB2, video on board,.... below $100

Leon

The NXP LPC2000 ARM chips are much more widely used than the AVR32, and are so cheap that they compete with many 8 bit devices like the AVR and PIC. The tools are excellent and not very expensive (or free), so they are within the reach of the average hobbyist. The LPC2013, for instance, only costs $7.50 from Digikey for one off, and has 48 pins, two UARTS, timers, SPI, I2C, etc. and runs at up to 70 MIPS.

Leon


▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle

Peter Jakacki

Well assessed Mike, my feeling has always been that this family AVR32 is targeted toward high volume consumer products. Besides, the 256 pin BGA puts me off straight away, you need to be high volume serious to use packs like that.

Hi Leon, I still like the LPC2000 chips and certainly that is what I would be working with if I hadn't discovered the Propeller. ARM7 chips are powerful and cheap but they don't fire my imagination like the Propeller does. The Propeller is like "family", you think of them fondly and often, you favor them before others, and you like to be with them and have fun. So I will still use ARM's but usually for the cheap and boring dirty work [noparse]:)[/noparse]

*Peter*

Gavin

I have the AVR network board.
Nice cheap way to get a embedded linux board, the main reason I got it was to brush up on linux, which is important these days for embedded applications. If you need lots of external memory in a controller go for AVR32s, good for Comms/Network/PDA apps.
Not many 32 bit micros can compete with the AVR32 on a performance/cost/power ratio.
The newer AVR32s with flash UC3 family make nice controllers. There are QFP versions, you just lose a ethernet port. The range is from 64 QFP to 256 BGA.

The only other micro I regards with the same flexablilty of I/O is the Cypress PSoC family, I will be getting the Cortex versions of them when they come out too.

If you need micros with lots of Uarts then Prop and PSoC are good, lots of micros are limited to two uarts.
The prop will Smile on the PSoC for real time I/O pin bit banging, PSoC is better for analog.

I also play with ARM chips just because ARM is everywhere, the newer Cortex versions I regards as better.

Comparing the AVR32 against the Prop is apples and oranges, mind you with clever programming the Prop can do amazing things.
The Next gen Turboprop will be a better comparision, more I/O, more memory.

If you need a product with "simple" CRT/TV/VGA output then prop is it, more complex graphics on LCDs then AVR32.
Prop is great place to start to learn multiple parallel processing.

You can prototype with a prop faster/cheaper than any other chip I have come across, there even is a nice dip40 pin part anybody can use without SMD methods.

If you are doing embedded design, learn every micro, if you are a hobbist stick with prop. If the prop cannot do what you want use two props[noparse]:)[/noparse]

Gavin

ALIBE

thanks to all for the input.· And, compare notes.

I have a couple of follow up ?s:

1. I am terribly limited by not fully deep-diving into Prop ASM. That is definitely a pebble in my shoes.· SPIN is great.· But, having programmed in spin for a little while now, I can see the limitations of how much i can accomplish (from speed, performance perspective).· I definitely need to learn Prop ASM.· However, as we all know, we do not have a single good resource·to learning Prop ASM. You folks·have all been·very helpful in helping answering ?s as they arise.· And, that is great·to see and consume.· However, we are lacking a single point learning resource for Prop ASM.·

2. Gavin, you mention TurboProp, I recall this forum collected a list of "what I want to see in the next prop" features.· Does Parallax have anything that can be shared in this forum on what we can expect to see in TurboProp.· Will ImageCraft C compiler/IDE support both current Prop and TProp.·

thanks to all again



▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"any small object, accidentally dropped, goes and hides behind a larger object."

·
ALIBE - Artificial LIfe BEing. In search of building autonoumous land robot

Graham Stabler

1. The only question I see is if people are very helpful so I will say yes they are [noparse]:)[/noparse]

For assembly get you feet wet with my four step plan then look at the example programs in examples thread where you see concepts being used in earnest then start using it and print out the assembly reference part of the manual as this tells you about the individual commands and should be by your side. There is no single point resource like a book and that might be the ideal but its not a necessity, get started is.

Graham

QuattroRS4

While not specifically related to the Hardware aspect of this post - it is most definitely worth saying. It is unlikely that there would not be anywhere near as much support for the average user of the avr - be it a coding issue or hardware related - I have never experienced anything quite like this forum for friendliness and support - with the likes of Mike Green, Tracey Allen ,Tomas Rokicki and Phil Pilgrim... to name but a few .. who selflessly dedicate time and patience to share ideas and solutions.

Taking this into account & if you were to look at this in terms of a 'Package' - there is simply no contest IMO.

Regards,
John Twomey

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
'Necessity is the mother of invention'

Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 8/13/2007 2:15:19 AM GMT

Gavin

Alibe,
RE Turboprop, worry about it next year, learn prop assembly this year.
I also need to get my head around prop asm, may get a chance one day[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Deep dive and swim like mad. Best way to learn is by doing.

AVR support is not bad, AVR32 is newer like the prop and not as well supported by user forums compared to 8bit AVR.
But then it does not really need to be if you are runing Linux on it.
Atmels support for it is very good much better than most suppliers.

http://www.avrfreaks.net/