BS2 correct for newbie?

nlopes

Hi everyone. I looked around the forum and couldn't really find much relating to what I'd like to get some feedback on and am hoping some of you may be able to help me out with some suggestions based on your experience. I'm new to microprocessors and only have some limited experience with one project using a PICAxe. I had chosen that for a project a while back since the processor was much cheaper than the BS2 and offered the functionality I needed at the time. Now I'm looking to expand my knowledge and am stuck deciding on if I should really focus on the Basic Stamp processor (or even the SX) or go directly to PICs. As most know PICs are cheaper, which even though I'm not planning in mass producing any projects I make, cost is always a concern. My feeling is I don't mind spending more money upfront for the development software if I can get processors for $4 or less when I want to build a project.

My question to all of you is if you've ever heard of the Proton Development Suite for programming PICs in PICBasic from Crownhill in the UK? I've also looked at another one called MikroBasic (http://mikroe.com/en/compilers/mikrobasic/pic/index.htm). They both seem very nice. MikroBasic is less money but I know it probably doesn't offer all the features of the Proton suite. I can't seem to find out too much about it. Being that I'm a beginner, I just want to get the best I can with my initial investment and learn/stay on that platform for a while. The other side is of course the Basic Stamp which costs more, but the compiler is free. I'm not too concerned with speed for the projects that I would like to work on. One feature that I am interested in is the In-Circuit Debugging (ICD). I think Proton requires another program (plug-in) at additional cost from a 3rd party vendor and MikroBasic requires some hardware device. I'm not really sure on that, but if anyone can clarify, I'd greatly appreciate it. I also like the fact that some PICs support the ability to have a bootloader which I can load on with Proton software suite (not sure about MikroBasic) so that I can program the chips in-circuit using serial (like the BS2) without the need for a programmer. Of course a standard PIC programmer is still needed for most PICs without a bootloader. Any suggestions on a good one of those would be great! I've been thinking about getting the MELabs U2 programmer as it supports many of their PICs and it's USB.

Ultimately I want to stay with the BASIC language and support from whatever I purchase is also very important. I've read that PICBasic Pro compiler from MELabs is the most expensive and offers less than some of the others that I've mentioned in ease of use and features (like support for strings, etc...) I love the fact that Parallax is in the USA and has great support, parts, etc... Also looks like they have a host of extra parts and boards for the BS2, but again the cost gets higher. For example, I'm interested in doing a project with a RF Transmitter/Receiver they have listed on their site, but my knowledge isn't sufficient enough to know if I could get those parts working on something I build using a cheaper PIC rather than a BS2 (as they come with documentation on connecting it to the Stamp).

Any opinions, suggestions, and feedback is greatly appreciated on what you think of all the choices out there.

Thank you very much,

Nelson

JonnyMac

If you want to go "cheap" then go with the SX. The tools are cheap, the chips are cheap, and you can program it in BASIC (SX/B) which comes free with the SX-Key software. It's not fancy, but works well. In all of our company's (EFX-TEK) products that use an SX, they're programmed in SX/B (one has assembly mixed in, but that's not the norm). In my opinion a lot of fancy features in a compiler for embedded processors just means code-bloat. SX/B produces lean, fast code that you can actually learn from.

Kevin Wood

If you want to get a platform that you can grow with, take a look at the StampWorks kit from Parallax.

It's a bit more expensive, and a bit more advanced, but you will have a very versatile development platform (the PDB) that works with all of the Stamp Modules, as well as the SX-28 chips. And the course itself is very comprehensive. If you find it at first glance to be a bit much, you can always adapt the project & material from the Stamps in Class courses for use with the PDB.

Down the road, if you want to stay with the BS2, you can save some costs by using OEM components in your designs. And as mentioned already, you can make a jump to the SX chips & still program in Basic. As for support for the PBasic & SX/B tools, you can contact the developers directly, if needed, via these forums.

kjennejohn

Yes the Stamp is a good starting place for beginners, but there numerous other inexpensive possibilities with Parallax and other sites. Since discussing other non-Parallax products are discouraged here contact me at kjennejohn@yahoo.com and let me give you some possibilities to check out.

As for the PIC compilers you mentioned, Proton and MikroBasic, let me say a few words about those.

Proton is an expensive, but powerful, choice and has a great forum with knowledgable and helpful members. However, it is not complete in that several elements of a modern compiler (the IDE and simulator, for instance) are supplied by other 3rd party suppliers, thereby adding costs and confusion as to who supports what. I purchased another comprehensive BASIC for PIC about three years ago. It has since been allowed to languish with no real updates, and most of the users who made their livings using this BASIC went over to Proton Plus and sang its praises. But the full package is around a grand.

MikroBasic is least expensive ($99) when purchased with their development board, the EZ PIC4, which is a little more than $125 itself with shipping. A few must-have options like an unlit LCD, one-wire thermometer chip and a lighted graphics LCD adds another pultry $25 to the tab. I can't say enough good about the development board, it provides so much capability for so little money, but the BASIC (pardon my French) sucks for beginners. I will say, though, that with some real perseverance, it can be a powerhouse. They do updates frequently, and they too have a lively forum with good people. The downside is they are based in Yugoslavia so some deliveries can take a while and the English gets pretty fractured at times. They do have a US distributor now, I believe. The good news: Their board has a damn fast builtin USB programmer that can take hex files from any compiler and burn just about every PIC in the 16F and 18F category.
So, to sum up, seriously consider getting their EZ PIC board when (if?) you graduate to big projects, and THEN give their BASIC a whirl.

All that's for after you finish a few Parallax educational sets and get the hang of wiring and programming circuits with embedded processors like the Stamp. You simply CANNOT beat the Parallax people for whomping up great educational sets and giving support. And they have a good lineup of advanced Stamps and add-ons to satisfy most any need.

Having said that, I would skip the SX as the next step. Several people here use it commercially and will cheerfully help you come up to speed on it. But unless Parallax plans to put the same effort they put into the Propeller into producing a successor to the SX with more resources (on board peripherals? more memory? more ports?) then it looks to me you could better with another processor. Like the AVR or PIC. Just drop me an email for suggestions.

I don't develop professionally, but have 28 years experience with embedded processors and design work. I can't know the Parallax line as well as people who use it day in and day out, so take this advice with a grain of salt.

kenjj