Who invented the Prop?
Propability
Posts: 142
This thread over in AVRFreaks looks intersting http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=52409
·
·
Comments
*Peter*
Graham
- I really want to be younger,quicker,better,more intelligent,faster ..........
Chip - that was my Idea before you deciphered the code and made a great chip !!! So when is prop3 coming out when we all can live for ever..look better...be richer....and take over the world (before anyone does it ---- it ws my idea) time is running out.. and I want one that does all that and more
Quattro
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
'Necessity is the mother of invention'
Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 7/26/2007 7:36:26 PM GMT
For anybody to claim that it was their idea however a long time ago is a little silly.
Please John in CA take no offence .. but for people in the know .. multi core processors
have been around for a long time..
Check out http://www.colorforth.com/bio.html mr Chuck Moore like Mr Chip Gracey is a true legend..
Mr Chuck Moore was doing stuff like that 20 years ago..
The Propeller is for the masses .. it has some quirky things about it .. but it is totally awesome..
Cheers
Ronald Nollet AUSTRALIA
Anyone can have an idea for something, but there's a large difference between having the idea to do something, and actually doing it.
If Chip & the person quoted really did have a couple of phone conversations about the concepts behind the Propeller, then what's wrong with acknowledging the fact?
Plus consider any prior art as well.
I remember a chip from Rockwell in the 80's that combined two 6502's on the one chip that shared memory and I/O by interleaving their access as 6502s only access when their clock is high. While one chip was on a clock low the other would be on a clock high and able to access the bus.
There are plenty of inventors out there who invent things while they sit on the dunny and take the "invention" to an engineer to "build" it.
Notice the words "invention" and "build", what they really mean is "I want but don't know how" and "you invent/design/build".
*Peter*
I have a long laundry list of ideas that I've never done anything with, and some of those ideas (like a rain sensor that automatically controls the windshield wipers) were subsequently invented by others. Instead of griping "that was my idea", I think "awesome, I knew that was a good idea".
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
Post Edited (Paul Baker (Parallax)) : 7/26/2007 6:11:41 AM GMT
I've exchanged messages with Chip. I stumbled on this product on a lark actually. Turns out it's just a kick and I'm stoked and having a lot of fun.
Others may have explored this idea, with him, or without him. Fine.
But, this chip is his. The stories of people looking on with indifference, the long effort, his views on computing and the solid design in general fit who he is and what he's about. I got to read his feelings of joy and satisfaction (and vindication too), over people enjoying his work, all of us learning things (him included) about what it really can and can't do. We exchanged words over people being attracted to the Propeller because it's really different and it's really solid. This product is a work of passion. Passion for discovery, love of the art and strong ideals about how to make things better. I'm here because of that. And the beauty of it is that is exactly what Chip worked so many years for.
(and thanks Chip for making computing fun -your time was well spent)
Let me put it this way. The Propeller is the first product that has made me consider some regret over being away from electronics and computing at this level for so long. Slice it, dice it, that's just cool and everybody knows it. This guy knows it.
Let's see this guy express and more importantly follow through on even a fraction of that, for a sustained time, and end up with something this solid that just screams, "play with me, learn, grow, do" and we can talk about who invented what and when.
There is no doubt who willed this fun product into being, and that's all that really needs to be said.
(It just chaps my Smile to see others say these kinds of things. It's false and only fools buy into it. Sorry.)
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Propeller Wiki: Share the coolness!
Post Edited (potatohead) : 7/26/2007 6:12:51 AM GMT
Mmmm chips... I'm off to lunch now - think I'll have fish 'n chips.
QuattroRS4
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
'Necessity is the mother of invention'
Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 7/26/2007 8:12:53 PM GMT
Please explain..
This story is starting to sound like when Audi NSU people invented the "Wankel" engine.
Remember the NSU R80 ???
The Japanese jumped on the band wagon and virtually claimed that they invented the Rotary Engine
in Europe referred to as the Wankel Engine ..( The inventor is Felix Wankel)
From what I gather they ..the Japanese paid Audi NSU huge royalty fees to use the technology..
For awhile Suzuki produced a motorbike with a rotary engine.. it was a flop.
Cheers
Ronald Nollet
Yeah I remenber that ... A friend of mine is a bike freak and has two of those Suzuki bikes in his collection.
I can take and post some pics if there is any interest ...
The Deutsches Museum in munich (Germany) has a few wankels disected on display with all the background.
Re. 'Please explain' ... Just because a guy has a phone conversation with Chip doesn't mean that he co-invented
the prop. A spanner is a term used in this country to describe a nut case (spanner - nut - you get the deal ..that said its a a 'wrench'' for all you states side !·)
I suppose it is not really accurate when you consider that a spanner is a useful thing.
I have a great many friends in various lines of business plastics, electronics, software, toolmaking, automotive, aeronautical, engineering etc and we regularly gather for a brainstorming session - whereby we use each other as 'sounding boards' for various ideas and thrash out the intricicies of various possibilities - many of which have come to fruition and many died on the spot - the point here being - at no stage has any other one of us decided that 'this was my idea' - we can all recognise the fact that these gatherings are merely a means to fine tune and thrash out the various aspects of an idea and therefore we could not or would not lay claim to a successful idea.
What other offerings has this guy ?? Lets compare..
I want a chip to rule the world and if anyone makes it - remember that I thought of it first !
Regards,
Quattro
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
'Necessity is the mother of invention'
Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 7/26/2007 9:58:26 AM GMT
Yep got it ..we have another term here it starts with a W and ends with a R...
Email the pics across to my private email .. I am a keen biker .. big Honda fan
XR's for the bush and Honda Transalp for the road and a little dirt..
cheers
Ron
Following the logic of this fellow everyone that posted on the huge thread "What would you want more of, cogs or RAM?"
would be a "co-inventor" of the prop 2!
http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=25&m=156993
That will be quite a long credit list...
I think it is great that Parallax listens to whishes from their customers, but this doesn't turn customers into developers, does it?
cheers,
Clemens
My uncle had a Mazda 1300 that he had stuffed so full of electronics(there were so many antennas on the roof that people though it was some kind of spy-car, or checking for unlicensed TVs...) that he had to intall a Wankel instwead of the straight-4 just to be able to get it up to the speed limit...
Unfortunately, he was also 'a bit heavy' on the accellerator sometimes, and if he pushed that engine while it was still cold, a gasket in the middle burst, necessitating yanking the engine from the car and splitting it in half.
I'm told that modern Wankels are rather more reliable...
As for being the one behind an idea...
Unless he can show that HE thought how the COGs were to access the HUB and shared resources, he doesn't have anything to go on. Everyone can think of 'shared RAM multi-kernel CPUs', but to actually figure out how they will be working together is the hard part.
One of my hobbies is to design small computer systems... (on paper... None of them has ever gone further than that... )
Drawing a block(or 8 or 16) and marking them CPU, then adding a few lines maked 'bus', then a few boxes called RAM, ROM, I/O is simple enough. Then you need to start adding CONTROL lines, handshaking, commnications protocols.
Maybe Semaphores even.
This is messy... usually...
The Propeller is unique in that it does multi-processing 'cleanly'.
It's so 'clean' that you can't believe it at first, and always catch yourself looking through the manual for a chapter 'Advanced topics: introduction to multi-procesing and pitfalls'...
This kind of elegance is practically impossible to achieve with more than one person working on the design.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Don't visit my new website...
This guy fits that profile perfectly!!
Among the first commercial products to use a multicore processor came from Echelon in the early 90s, the first prototype was built in 1987 (I was the CPU designer for that 4 CPU design, later made 3). At the time we were looking to see what we could patent and found numerous prior examples in the literature, so a broad patent was out of the question.
So the idea is not a new one, and probably goes back to the early days of computing in the 60s.
I think Chip is doing exactly what any clever and creative dude does, innovate. I would expect him not to care where the idea came from, or to get into a pissing match over who invented what. Instead, he keeps on innovating. By innovating, he stays ahead of the competition, and thus maintains his market and a successful business model.
So, let us all give this guy an "adda-boy" for pointing out the obvious next step in microcontrollers. Let us give Chip our money for actually designing and executing it.
-Parsko
Be sure to send the Nobel Prize my way when somebody gets around to working out the details.
If there was anyone else who had any impact on the design, it was definitely Jeff Martin at Parallax. He was instrumental in·resolving·architectural-aesthetic issues, especially regarding Spin.
There is some other guy on the internet who writes at length about how he and I had a conversation way back when,·where he "actually gave·Chip Gracey·the idea for the BASIC Stamp", or something like that.·I think I would be able to recall something so formative as this.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Chip Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
Post Edited (Chip Gracey (Parallax)) : 7/26/2007 6:20:14 PM GMT
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Help to build the Propeller wiki - propeller.wikispaces.com
I am sure he would have backed out if he was forwarded legal correspondence when the Microchip v Scenix and Parallax debacle was topical !
Regards,
Quattro
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
'Necessity is the mother of invention'
Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 7/26/2007 8:29:29 PM GMT
How true. And how true it is that the Propeller brought joy back into embedded control. I used to have a younger guy doing PIC programming for my little applications, but unfortunately, he left. I feel a little too old for a new WW with all these IDE:s and architectures. OK, I am using FORTH on ARM processors, but I was looking for something that REALLY brought joy back in programming. And that, the Propeller did.
We do not need to discuss claims from other guys. They have always popped up, mostly from people with very limited horizons (and usually with fathers and mothers that have told them what geniuses they are, even if they are plain as floor).
I know, this sounds like I was in some kind of a sekt - but I am not. Just very happy and grateful. For reasons that can be had for about ten bucks a piece.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
As for the Propeller: I think it is an amazing chip with so many possibilities. It is nearly impossible these days to find a microcontroller with a compact IDE, easy to use programming interface, and low cost. I couldn't believe that Parallax was able to produce such an amazing chip and sell it for such a low price. What amazes me even more is the fact that there are no known problems with the chip.
What confuses me is how so many people simply discount the Propeller as a well designed chip because Chip used Altera FPGAs to design the chip architecture. They make it seem like Chip downloaded an open core, copied it 8 times, and stuck in shared memory. I have seen this in more than one online forum, which mostly contain people who also bash the Basic Stamp as a horrible device that should have never been invented. Imagine what the world would be like if Parallax didn't exist.
Post Edited (Harrison.) : 7/26/2007 11:28:00 PM GMT
I don't think that even happened in this case the guy justs wants recognition for something (anything).
Graham
www.radio.cz/en/article/33185
Said I'd try lighten it up a bit ...
Quattro
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
'Necessity is the mother of invention'
Wonder what his name is now? Do-when Jones, Could-a-Bin Smith, Sour Graphilus, Toad E Patent Roll?????
Nailed it.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Propeller Wiki: Share the coolness!