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Graphics driver documentation — Parallax Forums

Graphics driver documentation

AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
edited 2007-07-17 00:34 in Propeller 1
There are a lot of people making graphics drivers right now. I have been skimming the code to see how well documented and they all look pretty good. But, what would be nice is for the really developed drivers if everyone could write 3-5 pages about each driver and how it works for those that are patient enough to trace the code. This way they can understand the abstract high level operation and then read the code to get details. For example, the donkey driver works by multiple cogs preparing a scanline and then passing it to a rendering cog which is very simple. However, a couple pages explaining and maybe a figure or 2 would go a long way to getting more people to use this stuff since its all pretty complicated. Then with each release just add the pdf, txt or doc to the zip file, so everyone really understands how they work.

There are a lot of cool programs and demos for the hydra now, but the more documentation everyone writes on the "theory" of operation would really be appreciated by users that aren't ASM masters yet [noparse]:)[/noparse]

Andre'
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Comments

  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,110
    edited 2007-07-12 19:54
    AndreL said...
    There are a lot of cool programs and demos for the hydra now, but the more documentation everyone writes on the "theory" of operation would really be appreciated by users that aren't ASM masters yet [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    That would be great to see how these routines work and interact to produce the end result, they really can help you to learn the finer details.

    I for one would welcome this if any of the Guru's out there are willing to put their precious time and effort in.

    C'mon guys us novices need all the help we can get! smilewinkgrin.gif

    Regards,

    Coley
  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2007-07-12 20:04
    Even a few pages for just talking to the reader and explaining things can help.

    Andre'
  • Dennis FerronDennis Ferron Posts: 480
    edited 2007-07-13 16:12
    I've been thinking a forum community-generated book under the Creative Commons license would be a great thing to do. People could volunteer to have their driver used in the book, and either the original coder or a volunteer author would do a write up that goes into great detail about how the code works. What you'd do is pick a driver and literally dissect it, explaining the high-level purpose of each piece of the code. It would be a great resource for learning Propeller assembly better. We could make it available for download for free in PDF form, but Parallax could sell it in physical book form as well for those who want it. I know I'd buy a copy.
  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2007-07-13 16:40
    Well, that's complicated. A book has to be like 500 pages and be professionally written, edited, etc. For now, I think if someone wants people to get more out of ANY thing they make they should write a few pages to go along with it. In general, programmers spend a lot of time programming, but then at the last minute when they make something that they want other people to use then they forget the most important thing -- the documentation. Source code isn't enough for 90% of people, they want some explaination. Thus, that's all I am trying to point out. So this doens't have anything to do with the hydra or the propeller, this is a bigger concept. Whenever anyone makes any kind of technology, software, hardware whatever for educational purposes you can't just put the source or design out. Its 10x more effective to do a write up of it! That's why in college and high school they try and get students to write reports -- this is finally the reason to make one [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    If anyone wants their code, demos, drivers included in the goodies section of my CD then they can just email me and I will handle that on a person by person basis.

    Andre'
  • JT CookJT Cook Posts: 487
    edited 2007-07-13 17:10
    Good luck finding a volunteer author. Also most of the programmers here·consider the source code their report. A lot people don't have a lot of time to spend on the programming part, and once they finish that they want to try something else.

    I think the problem is writing up a tutorial feels too much like homework like in highschool or college and just get bored writing up the text.

    Don't get me wrong, well documented source and ideas I feel are very beneficial, just don't hold your breath for any docs and jump right in.
  • CardboardGuruCardboardGuru Posts: 443
    edited 2007-07-14 19:35
    How about we do it as a collaborative effort? A wiki is great for a community to pull together and jointly create a knowledge base. I've started such a wiki with a small number of skeletal pages just to get us started. I figured a list of graphics drivers and their differences would make a good start. Please dive in and add more information to the table, or add a whole new page about something else if you like.

    propeller.wikispaces.com

    Post Edited (CardboardGuru) : 7/14/2007 8:57:06 PM GMT
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,260
    edited 2007-07-14 20:38
    I think I like this idea and it might be easier than we think!

    We could use a service like mylulu, to handle the publishing and distribution problems. Licensing there could easily be CC and still generate some dollars for whoever integrates our ranting. Might be worth it. IMHO, someone weaving this stuff together in a sane fashion would be worth paying some thing to.

    Done this way, a lot of the little details could be less of a burden as no publisher approval would be needed. So long as the effort adds value, it would be viable. Also, whoever is adding that value has a direct financial incentive to add it as professionally as possible, given sales of the hardcopy text would be keyed to said value, while the CC license lets all contributors benefit from the work for free.

    Cory Doctrow has been using a model similar to this for a while. He publishes his works under a CC license, which allows derivatives and distribution, given both continue to be open. His hard copy sales have grown every year he has done this. Also, his works have been translated and ported to any number of formats. You can read his books on your iPod! (I did this translation and it's damn cool to listen to good tunes and read great fiction while standing in line, for example!)

    ---just a thought about encouraging someone. I don't mind anything I publish here being aggragated in some solid fashion, how about you guys?
  • Fabian NunezFabian Nunez Posts: 29
    edited 2007-07-14 21:04
    Pardon me if I completely missed the point, but why does it have to be published on paper? Wouldn't a Wiki be a much better way of sharing and expanding this information?
  • CardboardGuruCardboardGuru Posts: 443
    edited 2007-07-14 21:11
    Fabian, that's what I meant when I suggested we use this:

    propeller.wikispaces.com

    I don't see the point of a book for this. It's just go out of date.
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,260
    edited 2007-07-14 23:50
    It doesn't.

    And this is why a traditional book publishing cycle does not make a whole lot of sense. However, having a copy on paper is often quite valuable. I know having printed information to work from is way better than managing windows, focus and paging through PDF's.

    My suggestion for the mylulu service was aimed at three issues:

    1. Aggragating the information and presenting it is an ongoing effort and is not exactly trivial.

    2. Living documents are difficult to publish, unless the tech has reached some core baselines in terms of known information and user base.

    3. Online repositories are ideal for locating info, but do require being online, and or could change, leaving one in a potentially difficult situation where ready access to information is concerned.

    The mylulu effort is a print on demand kind of thing. Essentially people can download the work, or have it printed and shipped. The download can be free, the printing is not. There is a revenue split between the service and the author / aggragator / editor making the work availiable. This revenue could fund the person making the effort, without entangling the forum contributions up in proprietary offerings.

    We all are adding value to the propeller platform. Of course this is in our best interests as the more the merrier where leveraging said value is concerned right? Parallax does not see enough return to do this, other than in the form of their fine kits and such. Forum thread stickies, etc... require constant attention and are not feature rich enough to really make very long term sense.

    A wiki is a fine idea and I would gladly participate. However, these can be difficult to publish from, therefore have the same core issues as PDF files do.

    I can and do print my own info and keep it in binders. Having a ready source of the latest and greatest tips tricks and hacks in printed form would save me time and effort. Both are scarce quantities where the prop is concerned, for me personally.
  • CardboardGuruCardboardGuru Posts: 443
    edited 2007-07-15 00:41
    potatohead said...
    3. Online repositories are ideal for locating info, but do require being online, and or could change, leaving one in a potentially difficult situation where ready access to information is concerned.

    These at least you don't need to worry about. I set it up on wikispaces.com because it maintains a full history of all changes, such that you can see how the page was at any previous date, or do a diff. And also because it allows you to export the wiki as HTML and access it locally even whilst offline.

    I agree paper is nice, and if someone wants to take that project on, then all power to them! They'll get my vote. Meanwhile, the wiki is a start.

    P.S. Where is mylulu?

    Post Edited (CardboardGuru) : 7/15/2007 12:49:59 AM GMT
  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2007-07-15 03:14
    For now, I would just say everyone that makes something just write a couple pages about it and that goes with the zip. Done. Easy, has a chance of happening in the real world. Then these projects can be copied to the wiki which is always a good idea.

    Andre'
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,260
    edited 2007-07-15 04:54
    My goof: http://www.lulu.com/

    Very cool service. I'm considering using it to distribute training documentation that I write from time to time. Many people want hard copy docs --I think they can just pay for them, or consume them as part of the classes I teach. I structure the stuff so that it's highly interactive, so I've few worries about downloads. Authors can setup how that happens too. It all can be charged for, some, or whatever.

    IMHO, books on demand are gonna only increase in relevance. Digital archives are still somewhat fickle, and all the copyfights going on right now sometimes warrant printing material that just might not be around, easily found, or lost.

    I was not talking down the wiki. I think it's a solid start regardless. Love the history feature. Thumbs up on that! Double thumbs up on the HTML export. Nice service!

    Andre' Agreed on that score. Doesn't hurt to mention these kinds of services though. I know a coupla people doing fairly well leveraging them for material that would not survive a traditional publishing cycle. Also, for non-published authors, it's a very solid way to get their work out there. Beats a vanity press any day of the week. There has been some mention of books here. Thought those contemplating that idea would benefit, that's all.
  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2007-07-15 05:08
    I have used pretty much all on demand printing. Stick to cafe press they do the best work, best prices, most flexibility and 10x more professional and larger than lulu which seems to be ran by a couple kids and not a large company with proper support etc.

    Andre'
  • CardboardGuruCardboardGuru Posts: 443
    edited 2007-07-15 12:21
    AndreL said...
    For now, I would just say everyone that makes something just write a couple pages about it and that goes with the zip. Done. Easy, has a chance of happening in the real world. Then these projects can be copied to the wiki which is always a good idea.

    Andre'

    I suggest go straight for the wiki.

    1) The documentation doesn't have to be done by the driver creator. Anyone can jump in and add some documentation. Multiple people can do it. And someone who tries to use a driver and finds a difficult to understand aspect or a bug can add a note to that effect to the documentation to help the next person.

    2) The first step any one faces is choosing which driver to use, or which driver to modify or learn from. Going through the Hydra Book CD and searching trhe forums and examining each driver's docs will take the newbie days. Better to collect the driver specs together as a first step.
    propeller.wikispaces.com/graphics+drivers

    3) Rather than everyone having to write up the way their driver works from first principles, they can hotlink to general principles. e.g.
    propeller.wikispaces.com/Colors
    propeller.wikispaces.com/Palette+Mode

    Please will someone be bold enough to be the second person to edit a page. Even if it's just to add a link, or a single additional nugget of information. Perhaps add a game to the game list. propeller.wikispaces.com/Games
    The wiki can only work as a collaborative effort.
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,260
    edited 2007-07-15 15:36
    Done!

    I like this service! Very easy to use.

    I put a CLUT in the color page, and it's organized in the same fashion as seen in my high-color demo program. That's the little strip at the bottom.
  • CardboardGuruCardboardGuru Posts: 443
    edited 2007-07-15 15:45
    Excellent! Thanks potatohead, I was beginning to give up hope than anyone else would contribute. And it's something I didn't know too. Two different sets of super-saturated colors eh? Does the second set ($xf) have the same out-of phase hues as the first set ($x9)?

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Help to build the Propeller wiki - propeller.wikispaces.com/
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,260
    edited 2007-07-15 16:10
    On my older, crappy televisions they are nearly the same. On my nicer SONY, they are clearly different hues.

    I found these when trying to sort out the color issues, getting ready for the high-color stuff. I just put all 256 byte values on the screen and noted everything that produced something useful. (The SONY is amazing in that it will display nearly anything!)
  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2007-07-15 18:39
    Doing the wiki is fine, I just think that when people make something they should add the docs into the zip, so its one "unit" and the docs, the demo, and the source are all in the atomic zip file and that's what moves around internet. Trust me about 1% of people are going to find the wiki, just like 1% of hydra buyers find this forum, but when a zip file floats around, then someone opens it and there is everything you need. The worst idea ever is to seperate things all over the place, that's like the windows registry -- bad idea. So if someone doesn't want to write something up, great. but, if you do then just make sure to add it to your zip of your demo/driver. And that way it stays with the source and demo and is a self contained product. Then people can always add or augment a wiki or whatever else with the information.

    Andre'
  • mahjonggmahjongg Posts: 141
    edited 2007-07-16 11:14
    To make this new wiki a bit more "findable" I have put a few links in relevant Wikipedia articles.
    I hope that will help generate some traffic.

    Mahjongg
  • CardboardGuruCardboardGuru Posts: 443
    edited 2007-07-16 12:59
    Thanks mahjongg, that should help. How about you do the same the other way and make some links from the propeller wiki to relevant wikipedia articles?

    We're up to 44 unique vistors today, from 34 yesterday (the first day).
    And we've doubled the number of contributors (from 1 to 2).
    If we can keep up growth rates like that, we'll be the most popular site on the internet in no time! wink.gif

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Help to build the Propeller wiki - propeller.wikispaces.com
  • Dennis FerronDennis Ferron Posts: 480
    edited 2007-07-16 19:47
    I like the wiki idea. That exactly captures the spirit of what I was talking about, but is more practical. Count me on board; I expect to contribute something to it when I next have a free moment.
  • CardboardGuruCardboardGuru Posts: 443
    edited 2007-07-16 21:29
    Good to have you on board Dennis! Anything you can contribute will be great.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Help to build the Propeller wiki - propeller.wikispaces.com
  • mahjonggmahjongg Posts: 141
    edited 2007-07-17 00:34
    Okay, I became a member of propeller.wikispaces.com and made some contributions, with plenty of links to Wikipedia. smile.gif .

    Additionally, I punt in a link to propeller.wikispaces.com/colors in the wikipedia entry about the HYDRA, after a paragraph where the number of colors that the HYDRA can display is discussed.

    Mahjongg
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