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Could the Prop2 do this? — Parallax Forums

Could the Prop2 do this?

BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
edited 2013-04-22 12:40 in Propeller 1
Could the Prop2 Do this? [noparse]:)[/noparse]
If so, Could the Prop1 Do this?
All will be revealed in a couple of days [noparse]:)[/noparse]

Prop24.jpg
«1

Comments

  • BergamotBergamot Posts: 185
    edited 2007-07-11 20:47
    Now that just isn't fair... [noparse]:)[/noparse]
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2007-07-11 20:50
    why? it's a very fair question! [noparse]:)[/noparse]
  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,110
    edited 2007-07-11 20:52
    Baggers, you asking us or tellin' tongue.gif

    Coley
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2007-07-11 21:06
    The question is "Could a Prop Dongle Do This ?" [noparse];)[/noparse] Ha Ha just kidding.

    Are you implying that this image was generated by a Prop1 ? Hmmm Hmmm Hmmm Fess-up now.

    Bean.

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    ·
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2007-07-11 21:06
    Askin [noparse]:)[/noparse]
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2007-07-11 21:13
    Do you think a prop1 could do that? [noparse]:)[/noparse]
  • rokickirokicki Posts: 1,000
    edited 2007-07-11 21:16
    Three synchronized TV-driver-like cogs driving one of the monitors like the original Amiga might be able to do this.

    (That was, NTSC timing, but analog R/G/B on three separate inputs.)

    So I'd say, yes, it is *possible*. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's not an amazing accomplishment.
  • RinksCustomsRinksCustoms Posts: 531
    edited 2007-07-11 21:57
    I vote yes.

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    E3 = Thought

    http://folding.stanford.edu/·- Donating some CPU/GPU downtime just might lead to a cure for cancer! The average PC while browsing the internet typically uses less than 30% of it's potential, why not donate a portion of the rest for cancer resaerch?
  • Beau SchwabeBeau Schwabe Posts: 6,566
    edited 2007-07-11 23:06
    Considering that I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a Prop2.... I would have to deduce.· Given that, I would absolutely say that a Prop2 could do it and to further answer the question, it looks like the Prop1 is doing it.·· - lol

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    Beau Schwabe

    IC Layout Engineer
    Parallax, Inc.
  • Harrison.Harrison. Posts: 484
    edited 2007-07-11 23:06
    I say the Prop-1 can because Baggers is a pure genius and can do anything.
  • mirrormirror Posts: 322
    edited 2007-07-11 23:36
    I think you could do it. But you're probably using a formula for that fancy colour fade, as opposed to the traditional array lookup. (Except of course for the image - which would of course be back to an array lookup).

    The more interesting question is: Try and guess how many cogs this took?

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  • Graham StablerGraham Stabler Posts: 2,510
    edited 2007-07-12 00:12
    Well judging by the file name I am guessing it could.

    Graham
  • PatMPatM Posts: 72
    edited 2007-07-12 01:54
    Wow, the file is prop24! You have access to that Star Trek time traveling stuff? I figure the prop 24 wouldn't come out until around 2020 or so.
    ·
  • BTXBTX Posts: 674
    edited 2007-07-12 04:15
    Baggers said...
    Could the Prop1 Do this?
    I think, YES (In RGB separate channels), but my question is: Is there any·chance·to refresh it ?
    If so, How many times by seccond ?

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    Regards.

    Alberto.
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2007-07-12 04:19
    Doable on Prop 1.

    Bet it takes two cogs.
  • mirrormirror Posts: 322
    edited 2007-07-12 05:41
    potatohead : I've not done any video stuff before, but I was also thinking two cogs, or maybe three if it's one cog for the background and one cog for the foreground.

    BTX : I'm guessing that Baggers could possibly do a continuously varying colour change background with the static picture in the foreground.

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  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2007-07-12 06:33
    Very cool baggers,

    Yes, I think the Prop1 could do it - but only barely.

    I am guessing 3 cogs, synchronized, in vga mode, using 24 pins, with three 6 bit R2R D/A's, driving a synchronized 64 color video mode for 18 bit color
    ie each vga channel only handles one gun; really only needs 20 pins as only a single cog's HSYNC and VSYNC are needed.

    I am guessing 128x96 pixel resolution, or possibly 160x100

    at 128x96 it would take 3*128*96 = 36864 bytes, more memory than the propeller has, so it must be some kind of tiled or on-the-fly color generation mode.

    Actually 128x96x16 bits would fit into 24576 bytes, and the three cogs could just unpack the bits they need

    Am I close?

    Or you could be generating the background color tiles separately from the "hirez" bitmap area and save a ton of memory.

    If I had the time I could pull it off I think.
    Baggers said...
    Could the Prop2 Do this? [noparse]:)[/noparse]
    If so, Could the Prop1 Do this?

    All will be revealed in a couple of days [noparse]:)[/noparse]
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    www.mikronauts.com - a new blog about microcontrollers
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2007-07-12 09:48
    Thanks guys for all the kind words smilewinkgrin.gif

    well, I suppose you've guessed it, as Beau said, I've not got a prop 2, but I do have a prop 1 [noparse]:)[/noparse] so YES, it's PROP1,
    the prop is generating a 24bit image, although I ran out of resistors at hand for the r2r ladders, so it's 16bit at I've just not connected the three lower bits, from each of the 3 sets of 8bits,
    so pins 0-23 are being catered for, just not displayed on that jpg, so the image you saw on at the top of this post, would be a lot smoother in colours scool.gif

    Also, as for how many props, would you believe 1? yeah.gif· thus making, most of the line render displays possible, since that only had one tv driver.

    My intension is to do a tile based driver with sprites, to get around the lack of ram for screen buffer.

    My next question, was, if I made a board, with say 16bits for tv [noparse]:)[/noparse] SD, keyboard or mouse, (keyboard or mouse to keep pin count down), two joysticks, and stereo audio, would people be interested in it?

    Baggers.

    PS, yes, the background is animated in that image too

    http://www.jimbagley.co.uk/Prop24.avi

    Edit : Actually, seems the latest fad is twin props, how about a twin prop board? let me know what you guys think [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    Post Edited (Baggers) : 7/12/2007 10:30:35 AM GMT
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2007-07-12 11:23
    Baggers,
    So this is RGB output ? Not PAL or NTSC ?
    If so, no TVs in the USA (that I know of) have RGB (SCART) inputs. Maybe some of the new LCD TVs do, but I don't know about it.

    Bean.

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    Never argue with an idiot.· They'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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    ·
  • CardboardGuruCardboardGuru Posts: 443
    edited 2007-07-12 11:32
    Prop 1 already has done this:

    http://forums.parallax.com/forums/attach.aspx?a=14622
    http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=33&p=1&m=195345
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2007-07-12 11:49
    Bean: really? NO SCART inputs whatsoever? god you poor Americans really have been deprived of colours, what with NTSC in the first place, and no scart connector. oh well.

    Cardboard: yeah that's been done, but it only has 400ish colours to choose from, not 16.7million [noparse]:)[/noparse]
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2007-07-12 11:57
    LOL, yeah baggers the "MAN" keeps us in the dark ages when it comes to TV quality.
    I just wanted to let you know, so you don't make a bunch thinking that us poor slobs in the states can use them.

    Everything has NTSC (RCA) input, alot of stuff has S-Video (DIN) inputs, some stuff has componet (3 RCA) inputs.

    Bean.

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    Never argue with an idiot.· They'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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    ·
  • CardboardGuruCardboardGuru Posts: 443
    edited 2007-07-12 12:09
    How do you know it's got 16.7 million colours? Have you counted them? Hmmm? Hmmm?

    I won't believe it until you've given them all a name. My neighbour has just painted his lounge with Antique Gold. Which surprised me, because when I saw it I was convinced it was Sick Yellow.
  • Graham StablerGraham Stabler Posts: 2,510
    edited 2007-07-12 12:30
    CardboardGuru said...

    I won't believe it until you've given them all a name. My neighbour has just painted his lounge with Antique Gold. Which surprised me, because when I saw it I was convinced it was Sick Yellow.

    He has:

    one
    two
    three
    four
    ....
    sixteen million six hundred and ninty nine thousand nine hundred and ninety nine
    sixteen million seven hundred thousand

    I'm wearing a pleasing ensemble of 4,856,345 and 38

    Oh and I think you are confusing 2,567,234 with 2,567,432

    Graham
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2007-07-12 12:55
    Bean: Thanks for the tip [noparse]:)[/noparse] Shame you don't have scart, they do Composite, RGB, SVideo. all in one.
    Will have to try and do a component next. lol

    CardboardGuru: lol, I think you thought it was Sick Yellow, cos you're used to only seeing in 400 colours [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    Graham: You beat me to the count, and messed me up reading those numbers, back to the beginning for me... 1...2...3...4... this could take a while....
  • Harrison.Harrison. Posts: 484
    edited 2007-07-12 14:06
    Well I have 2 TVs in my house (one LCD and one Plasma) that have multiple HDMI/DVI/VGA inputs. I am sure its possible to hook up RGB to those provided the TV can sync to the resolution/frequencies that Baggers is using.
  • OwenSOwenS Posts: 173
    edited 2007-07-12 14:31
    Baggers

    Component uses YPbPr, so you will probably find using YCbCr images you can just output them direct to the component connector (And do Sync-on-green? I think it's green!)

    Problem with YUV derivatives like YCbCr is that they have odd pixel groupings. Like YUV4:2:0, which is

    Y, Y, Y, Y,
    Y, Y, Y, Y,
    Y, Y, Y, Y,
    Y, Y, Y, Y,
    U,U,
    U,U,
    V,V,
    V,V

    (YUV4:2:0 is what MPEG normally uses, for example). JPEG also uses YUV4:2:0, but a slightly different one to PAL/NTSC/SECAMM/MPEG...

    Sigh. It's doable though!

    Conversion on the fly won't work. RGB -> YCbCr conversion is full of float multiplies. As is YCbCr -> RGB

    -Owen
  • JT CookJT Cook Posts: 487
    edited 2007-07-12 14:47
    One thing you might want to try and do is instead of making it is just RGB, make a VGA version, run it at high resolution, and scale the image down so the driver repeats pixels and scanline lines.

    But yeah, not RGB in the USA, tho I could hook it up the monitor in my OutRun machine.
  • Bob the Builder on a C64Bob the Builder on a C64 Posts: 112
    edited 2007-07-12 15:11
    Baggers, thanks to you a sonic game would be possible without looking funky! [noparse]:D[/noparse] I'm gonna expiriment with this color driver of you, it's just so godly...

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    Realize that I am really a mad scientist··· and


    Don't forget it!

    http://raydillon.com/Images/Illustration/GameArt/WildIsle/WildIsle-Ink-ScientistClose.jpg

    ·
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2007-07-12 16:19
    Owen: what's the voltage specs for Component? is it like composite? 0.0-0.3v on Y for sync then 0.3-1.0 for green, then Cb & Cr 0.0v to 0.7v for their range.

    JT Cook: Could try that. yeah could do arcade machines [noparse]:D[/noparse] as they were RGB [noparse]:D[/noparse]

    Bob: Yup it would. [noparse]:D[/noparse]
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