JT Cook said...
Just out of curiosity, what is the reason for using a 6mhz crystal instead of 5 or 10?
6mhz is an optimal choice of commonly availible crystals as it affords an operation of 96MHz whereas 5 and 10 mean an 80MHz operation, we use a 6.5MHz crystal to test (at room temperature) each and every Propeller before we ship them. My tests thus far indicate that with a supply voltage of 3V and 6MHz at 125 C (worst case) the Propeller will still operate. We state 80MHz as the speed because we provide a margin for error to ensure the Propeller will work in situations we dont specifically test every Propeller for.
Coley, will you be making a schematic available? I'm working on my own Prop board too, and am looking for some ideas / trying to maintain compatibility with some other designs.
Depends on what you are trying to do precisely, and I may need to back off on my prior statement. I am presently doing a more rigorous testing of the "highest speed possible" and at 3V and 125C I'm not sure if it can to 6MHz. I haven't gotten to the test point yet but the current data points are trending so that it looks like it will just miss the mark.
> I am presently doing a more rigorous testing of the "highest speed possible" and at 3V and 125C I'm not sure if it can to 6MHz.
Does your flow support static timing analysis? If not are you testing with skewed parts? (Intentionally skewed process a.k.a. rainbow lots.) I'm just curious and always interested in hearing about how others do these things. I've always worked in an ASIC flow, and the only reason that we do functional testing (I'm assuming that this is functional testing - maybe a bad assumption on my part) is to make sure that we didn't have any errors in our PrimeTime scripts and that the people who developed the libraries did their job. And to cover interfaces that scan wouldn't cover. Although things are getting interesting at 65 nm and below.
No we are not using rainbow lots, it's too expensive for the few tests we would perform. The 80MHz speed was determined by simulated process skewing, however our tests of each wafer produced by the foundry show thier process is in quite a narrow band far from the stated process boundries. So I am performing the test for the edification of our customers (and Chip), not as any guarantee that a particular chip they purchase will perform to that point, but to provide a sense of scale of how much more performance they can reasonably get out of it given thier operating conditions.
Every single polygon on the Propeller is custom, we used no libraries in the creation of the chip. Each subsystem of the chip was fabricated and fully tested before assembling it into the final chip.
The Hybrid looks wonderful [noparse]:)[/noparse]
The only thing is... If it had a little extra sram on-borad. It would be the BEST propeller development board ever!
I'd develop on it in a heart beat. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Either way... sram or not, I still wanna' port to it.
Ym2413a
You can add the hybrid's HX512, as the expansion port is pin compatible with the hydra's, so yes you can have 512KB sram to play with if you want.
And there's a little extra goodie we're developing, but can't take raps off that just yet! [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Hey Coley, just wanted to say - what an excellent-looking piece of machinery you have developed!
This is what I had envisioned for a game console idea I was planning on, a Prop-based system that could load games from SD cards. You've definitely done an excellent job on your system! I'm envious!
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They say all great artists are insane. I'm not saying I'm a great artist, but I'm certain I have what it takes.
Oldbitcollector said...
Why did you use a switchable crystal system? Say a 5,6, & 10 with a selector?
Not possible? Or felt unnecessary?
Well the truth is we were going to use a 5MHz crystal and leave it compatible with most of the demo board code but we have since switched it to 6MHz to fall in line with an accessory we are developing for it.
You raise a good point though that others may well wish to have other crystal configurations, so for the next revision PCB I will include those crystal pin holders that are on the Demo board and proto-boards, allowing Hybrid owners to use whatever crystal they want.
I like the fact that this thing has mass storage out of the box. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
SD cards allow for a lot of low speed memory that wasn't there before.
I already have a few ideas on how to use that. [noparse]:)[/noparse] [noparse]:)[/noparse]
I'll take that back, I have a few BIG ideas on how to use that!
... I am currently trying to assemble a comprehensive list and details of all the third party Propeller hardware so they can be viewed in one place adding exposure to all and easy selection of a suitable product also ...
Regards,
John Twomey
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ 'Necessity is the mother of invention'
Cool, Andrew, glad you like it [noparse]:)[/noparse] PS, there's an updated SDBoot.binary on propgfx forums for programming the EEPROM with. ( swaps PAL/NTSC F9=PAL F10=NTSC or if you don't have keyboard attached, hold left on powerup = PAL right on powerup = NTSC ) it saves 0 NTSC, 1 PAL to $7fff so if peoples programs will use that byte to start their games/apps with, it'll be great.
Comments
20% Speed increase and it brings some synergy with another project I am working on.
Multicomp SDBMF-00915B000
Regards,
Coley
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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
Thanks!
Is the 6mhz or 6.5mhz better than the 5mhz for generating video?
Fred
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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
Does your flow support static timing analysis? If not are you testing with skewed parts? (Intentionally skewed process a.k.a. rainbow lots.) I'm just curious and always interested in hearing about how others do these things. I've always worked in an ASIC flow, and the only reason that we do functional testing (I'm assuming that this is functional testing - maybe a bad assumption on my part) is to make sure that we didn't have any errors in our PrimeTime scripts and that the people who developed the libraries did their job. And to cover interfaces that scan wouldn't cover. Although things are getting interesting at 65 nm and below.
Every single polygon on the Propeller is custom, we used no libraries in the creation of the chip. Each subsystem of the chip was fabricated and fully tested before assembling it into the final chip.
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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
Post Edited (Paul Baker (Parallax)) : 9/21/2007 4:33:29 PM GMT
The only thing is... If it had a little extra sram on-borad. It would be the BEST propeller development board ever!
I'd develop on it in a heart beat. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Either way... sram or not, I still wanna' port to it.
--Andrew Arsenault.
You can add the hybrid's HX512, as the expansion port is pin compatible with the hydra's, so yes you can have 512KB sram to play with if you want.
And there's a little extra goodie we're developing, but can't take raps off that just yet! [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Not everyone might have a SRAM card.
I know what you mean, I feel the same way but it was a trade off between some form of compatibility and initial cost!
It's still a great board, but I would say that wouldn't I! lol
Regards,
Coley
This is what I had envisioned for a game console idea I was planning on, a Prop-based system that could load games from SD cards. You've definitely done an excellent job on your system! I'm envious!
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They say all great artists are insane. I'm not saying I'm a great artist, but I'm certain I have what it takes.
Why did you use a switchable crystal system? Say a 5,6, & 10 with a selector?
Not possible? Or felt unnecessary?
Oldbitcollector
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Buttons . . . check. Dials . . . check. Switches . . . check. Little colored lights . . . check.
— Calvin, of 'Calvin and Hobbes.
Well the truth is we were going to use a 5MHz crystal and leave it compatible with most of the demo board code but we have since switched it to 6MHz to fall in line with an accessory we are developing for it.
You raise a good point though that others may well wish to have other crystal configurations, so for the next revision PCB I will include those crystal pin holders that are on the Demo board and proto-boards, allowing Hybrid owners to use whatever crystal they want.
Regards,
Coley
SD cards allow for a lot of low speed memory that wasn't there before.
I already have a few ideas on how to use that. [noparse]:)[/noparse] [noparse]:)[/noparse]
I'll take that back, I have a few BIG ideas on how to use that!
--Andrew Arsenault.
Coley
Thank you
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Check out my robot using the propeller RECONAUTOR
Thank You
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Check out my robot using the propeller RECONAUTOR
Regards,
Coley
** Updated first post with link to new site for purchases **
I'm getting my Hybrid in the mail any day now!
This is by far the most powerful and promising Propeller based board out! [noparse];)[/noparse]
With the PropGFX. There is no question as to what this thing will do. ;0
www.igniteautomation.com/hybrid.html
... I am currently trying to assemble a comprehensive list and details of all the third party Propeller hardware so they can be viewed in one place adding exposure to all and easy selection of a suitable product also ...
Regards,
John Twomey
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'Necessity is the mother of invention'
You have bug in you link!
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Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty.
Sapieha
You must have been in very quickly - I edited that almost immediately ..
'almost' - he said.! - Reminds me of " Nearly never won a race but Barely always did" ' LoL
Quattro
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'Necessity is the mother of invention'
Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 7/11/2008 10:41:57 PM GMT
The thing is so small!
Very well built to say the least and it just looks good.
Tomorrow after work I'll give the thing a boot and see what this little monster can do. [noparse];)[/noparse]
Thanks Coley and Baggers!
--Andrew Arsenault.
Baggers
If there are anymore standardization then let me know. I'll try to include them in my works.
Thanks!
--Andrew Arsenault.
It is a great board and I would highly recommend it.
Only one problem, How do I write games for it?
Is there any articles I can read to help me?
I don't want to have to get the Hydra book.
Thank you
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Check out my robot using the propeller RECONAUTOR