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hydra can't be programed — Parallax Forums

hydra can't be programed

Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
edited 2007-07-23 04:40 in Propeller 1
Hi,
·what started out as a minor problem has turned into a major one . About a mounth ago I noticed that is was taking more than one try load the eeprom with a program . First it took 2 times and then 4 and so on ,now I can't get it to load at all . I've tried a differnt propeller chip , eeprom and even tried to program it with the usb2ser port with no luck .Also I tried a differnt computer and that·won't work either .I can still program my demo board and devopment boards but have no luck with the hydra.

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Thank's Brian


www.truckwiz.com

·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)

Comments

  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2007-06-19 22:51
    That's a bizzare problem since the hydra is nothing more than a propeller chip. So there are only a couple things that can go bad, the USB chip, but if you tried manually with the USB2SER port that should work.

    What version of the propeller tool are you using?

    Also, try plugging in the 128K card and programming that. It might be a cold solder joint on one of the lines around the eeprom and or programming lines, or some debris.

    Where did you buy the HYDRA?

    Andre'
  • CardboardGuruCardboardGuru Posts: 443
    edited 2007-06-19 23:34
    Have you tried loading a small program? I noticed that as a program grows bigger, the less likely it is to transfer on any one attempt. Also noticed that when transfer is becoming a problem, it's best to close down all other applications to minimise the chance that transfer will be interrupted by another app doing something.

    It seems that one of the few things that's screwed up in the design of the Propeller is the system for programming it. Serial transfer should be way more resilient than this.
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2007-06-20 00:27
    I ran into something wierd, along these lines, too. It involved Baggars Manic Miner preload program. Seems if I wrote that one to the EEPROM, which I did by mistake, powering up the prop means it starts to program something --when this happens, the prop cannot be programmed. This is something to look out for, IMHO.

    So it was a timing thing. Specifically, I had the amount of time it took for Baggars program to begin to do it's thing. Loading an extremely short program, right after powerup did the trick.

    I've also encountered modes where it takes a few attempts back to back in order to program the HYDRA. This does not occur on the demo board I have. So far, it's only been two, perhaps three. I just leave HYDRA on, make sure things are connected, and hit F10 a coupla three times.
  • PropabilityPropability Posts: 142
    edited 2007-06-20 01:06
    When I got my hydra I had a bit of a problem getting it to run . I jiggled the crystal and that did it . I pulled the crystal out and I could see where the leads were cut with I presume a pair of diagonal cutters that left a burr. I don't know if the force generated by the cutting action can harm the crystal but I seem to remember that said about transistors (this was a long time ago) . So whenever it fails to run I just go to the crystal and that brings it up .
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2007-06-20 01:27
    Hi,

    ·prop tool version 1.0 , bought my hydra from parallax (was one of the first ones). tried expansion card too , didn't work. tried a new 5.00 crystal (don't have any other ·10.0 besides the one that came with the hydra). lights are on nobodys home.


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    Thank's Brian


    www.truckwiz.com

    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)


    Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 6/20/2007 2:32:30 AM GMT
  • HallomannHallomann Posts: 21
    edited 2007-06-20 09:54
    Try the new version of Propeller Tool. The actual one is v1.05.5
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2007-06-20 12:00
    Hallomann said...
    Try the new version of Propeller Tool. The actual one is v1.05.5
    ·hi,
    ·tried new propeller tool , still won't work

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    Thank's Brian


    www.truckwiz.com

    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
  • HallomannHallomann Posts: 21
    edited 2007-06-20 12:21
    maybe your hydra board got broken.
    I would say control all the lines ^_^

    Because I had some problems too because of that.
    A really sad story for my hydra eyes.gif

    Post Edited (Hallomann) : 6/20/2007 12:26:53 PM GMT
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2007-06-21 03:10
    andre',
    Being that your giving me so help trying to figure out whats wrong here, I'm shipping the hydra back to parallax and you can play with it until your hearts content.

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    Thank's Brian


    www.truckwiz.com

    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2007-06-21 04:15
    AndreL said...
    That's a bizzare problem

    Andre'
    ·bizzare like , shipping with wrong expansion cards or with books that fall apart ?

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    Thank's Brian


    www.truckwiz.com

    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)


    Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 6/21/2007 4:25:21 AM GMT
  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2007-06-21 17:55
    I am not sure if you're trying to be sarcastic to me? I outlined some ideas, that's why I asked where you got it since if you got it from us, my next step would have been to send it back and we will replace it and see what's wrong with it in the first place.

    "andre',
    Being that your giving me so help trying to figure out whats wrong here, I'm shipping the hydra back to parallax and you can play with it until your hearts content."

    But, looks like you got it from Parallax, so let's see what they say about it. But, you previous 2 posts directed at me seem off base, I AM trying to help you.. So I am not sure why you are writing with the tone that you're writing?

    Andre'
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2007-06-26 03:18
    Andre',
    Sorry for being such a smart ### , I called parallax and told them I was shipping it back , they told me to ask you . I know the problem is terminal , I just get sick of jumping through the hoops.

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    Thank's Brian


    www.truckwiz.com

    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2007-06-26 06:46
    Sounds good. They will replace it I am sure with no problem. I wish you bought it from us, I always like to see any bad units to figure out what's wrong. But, rarely are any units bad. I haven't had one yet, I think you might be #1 or #2 of all the units sold that had some problem. Its probably a cold solder joint at the end of the day.

    Andre'
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2007-06-28 12:00
    Andrea'

    ·Here's where we are sitting·. Parallax says the chip is bad, I change the chip with a extra one that I had. Is it possible that there is somthing on the hydra that is messing with the propeller ?



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    Thank's Brian


    www.truckwiz.com

    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
  • CardboardGuruCardboardGuru Posts: 443
    edited 2007-06-28 13:13
    Brian,

    How about sorting this out via private messages or email, and summarise the thread when the problem's been sorted. The rest of us forum members can't really help you out at this stage.

    Post Edited (CardboardGuru) : 6/28/2007 1:17:49 PM GMT
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2007-06-29 04:41
    CarboardGuru,
    I don’t only use the propeller in my hobby ,I use it in my business .Tech support always tells me to post my problem. I can not tell you how frustrated I get when I can not tell you the real problem because it messes with what I’m trying to build without anybody knowing .

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    Thank's Brian


    www.truckwiz.com

    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2007-07-04 04:21
    ARGH,
    shipping is caught between old address ane new address . I'm just going to leave it at that!

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    Thank's Brian


    www.truckwiz.com

    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2007-07-04 16:53
    Brian,

    Anything is possible. I thought you sent them back the HYDRA board for replacement? How did they diagnose that the propeller was bad? Anyway, the board is pretty simple, the only things that can be wrong are a bad chip (the propeller or the USB chip), missing part, or a bad solder joint really. Bottom line, just request a replacement HYDRA board, problem solved. And I am not sure what you are referring to about shipping, but if you have a mail foward then it should be no problem. USPS will forward mail. Usually parallax uses UPS which might leave a package at your old address since they won't have a foward, so all you do is get the UPS tracking # and call UPS and tell them the package was left at your old house, or just drive there and pick it up.

    Anyway, I thought you had got a replacement hydra board from parallax, so where are you now on this?

    Andre'
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2007-07-06 03:22
    Andre',
    I'm a busy person just like yourself ,I do not think that the prop chip was bad. Tech support drives me up the wall. I tried everything under the sun to get my hydra to work, I marked my board and chips so that I would know what I'm getting back. I don't have problems very often and I always look at the post for like problems. I sent the Hydra 2 weeks ago next day air to tech support . It took 6 days and then I had to call to find out that they thought the prop was bad (if that is the case ,I'm sitting on a whole lot of bad chips!).In the note I sent with the hydra I made sure to tell them after July 1 I would have a new address, so they shipped june 28 on UPS with 3 day delivery. Lets see June 28 + 3 days = July 2 (First delivery day). So now I have a package that is just rolling around in the UPS system.

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    Thank's Brian


    www.truckwiz.com

    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website ( Bet you can't guess why)
  • AndreLAndreL Posts: 1,004
    edited 2007-07-06 22:22
    Do you have the tracking #, just find out where it is, call UPS up, make sure they have your correct address. I have made sure to contact one of the tech leads and make sure this is resolved. I can't do much more since Nurve didn't sell this one to you, otherwise, I would just replace it.

    Anyway, let's hope the UPS gets to you and everything is fixed up. I think you had two things working against you; parallax just did an inventory, plus it was a holiday this week, which tends to thin out the workers since many go on vacation during this time (or last week, and man power might be thin).

    Andre'
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2007-07-06 23:17
    Brian, Our records indicate that you received your package today. When you spoke with tech support, you made no mention of your impending address change.·Sorry for any incovenience you experienced.

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    Paul Baker
    Propeller Applications Engineer

    Parallax, Inc.

    Post Edited (Paul Baker (Parallax)) : 7/6/2007 11:54:59 PM GMT
  • computer guycomputer guy Posts: 1,113
    edited 2007-07-07 07:56
    This might be a case of the Hydra hanging on usb insert, rare but can happen.
    epmoyer has found a solution.

    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=660221
    AndreL I would recommend you have a look at this post.

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    Check out my robot using the propeller robot.tmcp.com.au
    If you offer cheap PCB fabrication, perl programming or any other helpful services please email me at.
    anthonybmyatt@yahoo.com.au
  • PocketLintPocketLint Posts: 31
    edited 2007-07-20 11:30
    I've been programming my Hydra for a long time now with the same PC and the same Hydra board without any problems. That is until recently.

    For some reason, for the past week or so, when I attempt to program the Hydra, it will reset partially through the transfer and run whatever I had programmed to EEPROM.

    The size of the transfer did not matter. Small or large, it would not transfer.
    Drove me nuts. I tried the latest Propeller Tool, version 1.05.5 and it install newer drivers but that did not help. I even tried reverting back to the USB2SER key and that had the same issue.

    I finally decided to turn off window's spy checker software and it started working again. Adding the tool to the safe list did not help any. I could not find anyway to tell it the driver was safe..
    So, when I forget to turn of the spy checker I cannot program the Hydra.
    I can duplicate this all I want just by enabling and disabling that security program.

    I guess in one of the recent many windows patches, it screwed with the security of the serial/usb ports/drivers.


    Hope this helps some,
    Bob Woodring
    ·
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2007-07-23 04:40
    I think this varies by USB too.

    Just got a new T60p Lenovo laptop. It works with my HYDRA and Demo board without a hitch. The other machine was a Dell Inspiron 8600.

    Notably, some portable disks were an issue with that particular laptop as well. I had to be careful when I connected the disk, or it would just hang, spinning up over and over.

    The demo board worked on either one with no problems. Still considering the EPMoyer mod...

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