propstick cycles when started w/out plugged into usb port
fish
Posts: 55
First of all the prop's eeprom has been loaded with my program and it runs fine.
Power: 9vbat (also use 7v power supply when bat is dead) to 5vreg and 3vreg.
3v to propstick
5v to gps mod
common grounds between gps and prop.
Scenario I:
I have my propstick usb plugged in the pc (a laptop in this case but with a desktop PC I get the same results).
I press F10, all is good, compiles, program runs as expected.
I then disconnect from the laptop's usb port, still all is cool, all is running fine, as expected.
But if i press the reset button on the propstick, it cycles resetting every 1/8 second or so.
Scenario II:
I try again, but no F10 or anything, just connect to the laptop's usb.
I then hit the reset button (still plugged in to usb) and all runs fine no probs.
I then unplug from the laptop's port, all still good.
I hit the reset again and like before it starts to cycle resetting every 1/8 second or so.
BTW: if it matters at all , the laptop can be sitting there with it's internal caps all drained (it's a really old laptop,even clock bat is dead in it), and no battery, just a paper weight with a usb port and i get the same results. Desktop pc same results.
any ideas?
thx
fish
Power: 9vbat (also use 7v power supply when bat is dead) to 5vreg and 3vreg.
3v to propstick
5v to gps mod
common grounds between gps and prop.
Scenario I:
I have my propstick usb plugged in the pc (a laptop in this case but with a desktop PC I get the same results).
I press F10, all is good, compiles, program runs as expected.
I then disconnect from the laptop's usb port, still all is cool, all is running fine, as expected.
But if i press the reset button on the propstick, it cycles resetting every 1/8 second or so.
Scenario II:
I try again, but no F10 or anything, just connect to the laptop's usb.
I then hit the reset button (still plugged in to usb) and all runs fine no probs.
I then unplug from the laptop's port, all still good.
I hit the reset again and like before it starts to cycle resetting every 1/8 second or so.
BTW: if it matters at all , the laptop can be sitting there with it's internal caps all drained (it's a really old laptop,even clock bat is dead in it), and no battery, just a paper weight with a usb port and i get the same results. Desktop pc same results.
any ideas?
thx
fish
Comments
reset.. can you measure the draw???, or try 6x1.5 D/C cells instead???
Bob
and why would it matter if I were plugged in the usb port or not at startup?
fish
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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
I·hear ya,
so thats not the problem.
thx
<edit> also tried without the gps hooked up. same prob.
Post Edited (fish) : 5/23/2007 2:23:25 AM GMT
Ah ha! ok, so·is it the impedance between pins? Something grounded when connected? WTHeck?
Well at first·glance of the vdip1 schematic it looked to me like pin1 (vcc)·is basically grounded when the vdip is not·powered up.
So I grounded pin 1·on the usb cable that is connected to my probstick it stopped cycling and works perfectly.
Hooray!...umm. But now I am not clear on how to handle this from this point on.
So what is the best solution for grounding pin1 on the usb port when not connected to the pc?
Something hopefully more elegant than a jumper. Is there something else going on?
Any thoughts?
4 Pin USB Pinout
Post Edited (fish) : 5/24/2007 3:58:01 AM GMT
·Methinks the gnd is getting a sort of stablity Via the added device! I,m thinking the joint of the GND is floating somewhere(bad solder joint!)
or the prop USB connector·
·······cheers·· Dennis
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http://people.delphiforums.com/cocokiwi/Image/picture.jpg
If all that's ok, try loading a simpler program that doesn't turn on too many things (eg: just flash one LED). On one bs2 stamp circuit I set up, I've run into a cycling reset when peripherals drew too much transient current for the regulator and dropped the voltage available to the stamp. This should help locate your reset (or at least eliminate a possible cause).
I ground the vcc pin on the usb port of the propstick (when its not connected to the pc for programming obviously) and it stops the cycling.
Remember that it ONLY does this cycling trip when I reset or start cold whilst not connected to another usb port and that other port doesn't even have to be powered up (example: vdip1 module).
Attached is the schematic of the port (assuming it's the same or close enough to that of the demo board's)
So really? No one else who has a propstickusb has had this problem? I feel kind of lame for bringing it up. Geeze.. Well eventually·I will figure out what the heck I am doing wrong.·Also attached is my setup.·
argg
fish
-Phil
Update: Looking at the PropSTICK-USB schematic, I see there's no pullup on A30. This may cause the FT232R to power cycle when the Propeller is reset, even in the absence of serial data on this pin. You might try attaching a fairly stiff (~1K) pullup here to ensure that the FT232R stays powered through this pin during a reset. It's not a very pretty workaround; but short of cutting traces, it may be the only option — assuming my original diagnosis is correct.
Post Edited (Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)) : 5/25/2007 7:14:13 PM GMT
Feeding the lcd with an independent regulator instead of the propstick's would be a good experiment.
I am also assuming you are following mfr's recommended caps for your 7v regulator.
Good thinking. Yes, alas I have tried with its own·3vreg before and various power sources as well. Yes to caps too.·BTW I have the same results using·the ezlcd002 instead of the spark fun breakout board/nokia lcd.·Interesting idea though, you·might be onto something.
thx fish
I have narrowed the cycling problem·down to·ExtendedRxSerial.spin code (as least at the high level).
I have yet to dig deeper to find the root cause. I was just happy to have an example to show you.
Here is how to create a cycling PropStickUSB:
I used the·Ch3-Ex10)-Blinker2.spin example (see below) it should cycle with any program:
1) Fire the PropellerTool.exe
2) Plug the propstickusb·into usb for progamming.
3) Load the·(Ch3-Ex10)-Blinker2.spin example.
4) Add·to the OBJ·area ->·······EXRxSerial : "Extended_RXSerial"
5) Add·in the·main method·->·· EXRxSerial.start(15,30,4800). (pick an RX pin, i used 15)
6) Press F10·to compile and load the program·in RAM and run: Verify everything is working.
··· If all is well, proceed to step 5.
7) Press F11 to burn the program to the eeprom and run: Verify everything is working.
8) Unplug usb cable from propstick (cable is still connected to PC).
9) Press reset button on propstick.
10) You should now see·that·it is·NOT working correctly.
···· ·It should now be cycling. You should see the little red LED on the propstick now·blinking (faintly).
11) Reconnect usb cable to propstick (cable is still connected to PC).
12) Press reset button on propstick.
13) You should now see the propstick working normally,·as programmed.
Code example (Ch3-Ex10)-Blinker2.spin with added Extended_RXSerial:
{{ Blinker2.spin }} CON _CLKMODE = XTAL1 + PLL4X 'Set to ext low-speed crystal, 4x PLL _XINFREQ = 5_000_000 'Frequency on XIN pin is 5 MHz MAXLEDS = 6 'Number of LED objects to use OBJ LED[noparse][[/noparse]6] : "(Ch3-Ex10)-Output" EXRxSerial : "Extended_RXSerial" '<------------ Added for cycling test PUB Main {Toggle pins at different rates, simultaneously} EXRxSerial.start(15,30,4800) '<------------ Added for cycling test dira[noparse][[/noparse]16..23]~~ 'Set pins to outputs LED[noparse][[/noparse]NextObject].Start(16, 250, 0) 'Blink LEDs LED[noparse][[/noparse]NextObject].Start(17, 100, 0) LED[noparse][[/noparse]NextObject].Start(18, 50, 300) LED[noparse][[/noparse]NextObject].Start(19, 500, 40) LED[noparse][[/noparse]NextObject].Start(20, 29, 300) LED[noparse][[/noparse]NextObject].Start(21, 104, 250) LED[noparse][[/noparse]NextObject].Start(22, 63, 200) '<-Postponed LED[noparse][[/noparse]NextObject].Start(23, 33, 160) '<-Postponed LED[noparse][[/noparse]0].Start(20, 1000, 0) 'Restart object 0 repeat 'Loop endlessly PUB NextObject : Index {Scan LED objects and return index of next available LED object. Scanning continues until one is available.} repeat repeat Index from 0 to MAXLEDS-1 if not LED[noparse][[/noparse]Index].Active quit while Index == MAXLEDSenjoy
fish
·
As I suggested above, put a stiff pullup on pin A30, and I'll bet the problem goes away. The "root cause" is pin A30 rising to a "mark" state after reset, powering up the FT232R through its gate protection diode, and sending a glitch through DTR, thus causing another reset. The pullup, assuming it's stiff enough, will keep the FTDI chip powered up all the time and eliminate the DTR glitch. Another option that might also work is to change the "30" in your call to EXRxSerial.start to another pin when you're not using your PC.
-Phil
That did it. You've hit the mark. 1k pullup on pin30 or p31 does the trick.
Big thanks!
Cheers!!
fish
<edit: so as not to bump;·there are more important·threads than this one·
Extended_RXSerial.start·(RXpin, Mode,Baud)
And pin 15·was arbitrarily chosen from one of the remaining pins not used in example.
Post Edited (fish) : 5/28/2007 4:22:52 PM GMT
Help!· I'm a newbie to the Propeller, so please explain the fix in a way I can understand.
I apologize if my questions are obvious to the veterans out there.
I have spent the past day struggling with this exact problem, i.e., the reset works just fine while the USB cable is connected to my PropStickUSB, but once I disonnect the USB cable from the PropStickUSB and press reset then the PropStickUSB simply recycles and doesn't ever finish rebooting (and all I'm having the PropStickUSB do is power one blinking LED in series with a 100 ohm resistor, on P4, so I don't think it's drawing too much current).
A couple of questions, to both of you and to the Parallax Tech Support Folks:
1. What is "A30"?· Does this mean "P30"?· Or does this mean pin location # 30, which is also marked as "XI"?
2. Do I need to add a "pull up" resistor to Pin P30?· If so, why isn't this taken care of by the PropStickUSB itself?
3. Is the addition of the pullup resistor intended by Parallax, and if so, why don't the instructions for wiring the PropStickUSB mention this need for the pullup resistor?·
4. Or is this a design flaw which has been corrected in a new version of the PropStick?· (Since I just received this PropStickUSB from Parallax one week ago, I'd expect it to be the current version).
Thanks in advance!
Kevin
Newbie to the Prop
PS - This is my·third PropStickUSB in the past·month.· The first one I got didn't work when used with "PLL16X", so I called tech support and they sent me a replacement; the second one·became·very hot (painfully hot) when plugged into the USB line, so I called tech support and they sent me a replacement ... I'm hoping that·this third·PropStickUSB will work properly.
Post Edited (Kevin Hines) : 6/28/2008 1:10:04 AM GMT
This is a problem with the FTDI USB to serial chip when it's unpowered by USB. It only occurs with some PropClip/PropPlug devices, not all. The best solution is to unplug the PropClip/PropPlug, but a pullup resistor on I/O pin 30 will also work.
3) Again, this doesn't affect all devices, only some. It's not clear what the "best" solution is other than some specific documentation outlining the choices and advantages / disadvantages of each.
4) I'm not aware of any design changes to address this.
I have both a PropClip and a PropPlug as well as several Protoboards and a SpinStamp (and a Demo Board and a Hydra with their built-in USB interfaces). I've not experienced this problem with any of them. There's still the unanswered question of why some people have a problem and others do not. It's not clear what fix is needed.
Thanks for your reply.
Re: "The best solution is to unplug the PropClip/PropPlug...", I can't unplug the PropClip/PropPlug, as I am using a PropStickUSB, and the USB device is integral to the PropStickUSB and can't be removed.· I will, however, keep this in mind, for when I use a Prop which can be unplugged from·its Clip/Plug.
Okay, I just tried a few different pull up resistor combinations, with my PropStickUSB :
1. a 10,000 Ohm resistor between·pin location #30 (aka "XI")·and the 3.3V VDD: Did not work; i.e., kept reseting repeatedly.
2. a 10,000 Ohm resistor between P30 (aka pin location #39) and the 3.3V VDD: Did not work; i.e., kept reseting repeatedly.
3. a 100 Ohm resistor between·pin location #30 (aka "XI")·and the 3.3V VDD: Did not work; i.e., kept reseting repeatedly.
4. a 100 Ohm resistor between P30 (aka pin location #39) and the 3.3V VDD: This·worked, sort of.· I.e., when I hit the reset button, the LED blinks the specified numnber of times, so it appears to reset just once, and to work properly.· However, when I disconnect & reconnect the battery, then the PropStickUSB·appears to reset twice, i.e., it starts to blink the LED, then stops, and then appears to restart and·after the 2nd reset it blinks the LED the correct # of times.
5. [noparse][[/noparse]Edit:] a 10,000 Ohm resistor between P30 (aka pin location #39) and the 5V from the linear regulator:·This worked the best.· This seems to work every time the reset button is pressed, and every time the battery is discinnected & reconnected.
This is·much better than the situation I was in earlier today ... thanks.
A couple of follow up questions:
A. What is the best resistor value to use for the pull up?
B.·Will it cause any damage to anything, for the·pullup resistor to·be between P30 and the 5.0V output from the 5V linear regulator?·
Thanks,
Kevin
Post Edited (Kevin Hines) : 6/28/2008 3:26:40 AM GMT
I am just commenting on this thread so I can find it on Monday morning when I am at my desk trying to solve my reset problem.
I don't see any problems when leaving the usb port unconnected on the commercial PPDB or the prop proto board usb.
It looks like it may be power supply (i use the same 7.5 to 3.3v conversion circuit as the education kit) or breadboard capacitance related
Thank you all for the P30 pullup fix - I thought it was just me having deja vu.
/michael
.
Post Edited (Michael O'Brien) : 3/7/2009 11:27:55 PM GMT
/Niclas
But, I don't know why there should be a high on both pins 30 and 31. I would think that only one of them is driven high by the USB chip... The other one is driven high by the Prop once the serial driver is enabled (which can give power to the USB chip, causing the issue).
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
-Phil
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
/Niclas
Thanx.
http://www.parallax.com/Portals/0/Downloads/docs/prod/prop/32210-PropStickUSB-1.2.pdf
Jim
Post Edited (Tank) : 3/5/2010 3:58:07 AM GMT