RFID and my cats
parsko
Posts: 501
You could only imagine where this is going. If you can't, gimme some time, and you'll see...
I'm an Expat. I imported my cats. The US requires, or at least makes it much easier on us, that one have RFID tags installed in any pets that also move to another country. I have decided to try to take advantage of this. So, I bought one of Parallax's RFID tag readers. I can't seem to get it to read my cats tag out (when I can get him to stand still within range of the cable I constructed). I have tried both Dave Scalans code from Example 22, and the Beau's code posted (with my cats' tag numbers included, didn't make that mistake), but none work.
First question before I head to bed:
Does anyone know for a fact that the Parallax RFID tag reader with work with animal RFID tags?
The hex number length is the same, so I assume that it would work. I have kept the distance to within the range specified in the datasheet, and I am pretty sure that the tag is not too deep under the skin.
Oh, I haven't yet completely figured out how to use Beau's code, since he used VGA, and I'm TV. His code was a bit dependant on the VGA, and I haven't had the time to port...
Dave's example seems to be simple and straightforward. I changed the pin numbers and it seems to work. One thing that I notice that seems to be a problem, is how long it loops around before it displays another number. There doesn't seem to be anything that would cause the loop to be so long (I would say it's equiv. to the timer overflow of 53 seconds). Anyway, it's attached...
Thanks,
-Parsko
PS - My work badge, I think, is also RFID, Motorola, would that work?
I'm an Expat. I imported my cats. The US requires, or at least makes it much easier on us, that one have RFID tags installed in any pets that also move to another country. I have decided to try to take advantage of this. So, I bought one of Parallax's RFID tag readers. I can't seem to get it to read my cats tag out (when I can get him to stand still within range of the cable I constructed). I have tried both Dave Scalans code from Example 22, and the Beau's code posted (with my cats' tag numbers included, didn't make that mistake), but none work.
First question before I head to bed:
Does anyone know for a fact that the Parallax RFID tag reader with work with animal RFID tags?
The hex number length is the same, so I assume that it would work. I have kept the distance to within the range specified in the datasheet, and I am pretty sure that the tag is not too deep under the skin.
Oh, I haven't yet completely figured out how to use Beau's code, since he used VGA, and I'm TV. His code was a bit dependant on the VGA, and I haven't had the time to port...
Dave's example seems to be simple and straightforward. I changed the pin numbers and it seems to work. One thing that I notice that seems to be a problem, is how long it loops around before it displays another number. There doesn't seem to be anything that would cause the loop to be so long (I would say it's equiv. to the timer overflow of 53 seconds). Anyway, it's attached...
Thanks,
-Parsko
PS - My work badge, I think, is also RFID, Motorola, would that work?
Comments
-Phil
Is it possible to hack the reader to get it to work with 134?
-Parsko
PS - I checked, and I've got HomeAgain chips. I checked with them, and though they don't say it, in their FAQ's, they discuss 125KHz.
-Phil
Good find with those articles. I had not thought that I would have a problem. I did get the chips in the US, and before 2006. It seems that 2006 was a year of change in this industry. I'm also a bit surprised at the pissing match that is going on between the companies (specifically, Avid's encrypted chips) over safety of pets. One would think that someone would generate a universal standard. Dang, this is for safety!!! Okay, off the soapbox Luke.
So, we seem to be in agreement that the reader should work. I'm a bit peeved with myself for not ordering a tag with my readers! They are cheap, and would ensure that I would have a known good one available, right?
Anywho, did anyone check out the code to see if there was something obvious that I missed? I might just rewrite it today, or try to modify Beau's for TV. That should give me two codes to try...
The kid is (temporarily) happy, I have a full cup of coffee, mom is actually getting some sleep, and 125cc MotoGP is on, so far so good!
-Parsko
PUB Start DirA[noparse][[/noparse]Enable_Pin] := Out VideoDisplay.Start(12) 'Instantiates VideoDisplay SetScreenWhiteOnDarkBlue BS2.Start(RX_Pin, Enable_Pin) 'Instantiates BS2 VideoDisplay.Str(String("RFID TAG VALUES IN HEX AND ASCII")) VideoDisplay.Out(Cr)At the point you instantiate BS2 you have changed the code to:
BS2.Start(RX_Pin, Enable_Pin)
I'm still new to .spin but I think this is what might be giving you your problem... try changing it back to:
BS2.Start(31, 30)
Other than that, the code is the same as what I have and have tested (except the Reader Pins you declared) and used for my current project.
Good Luck,
Jeremy
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HOLY *@Microsoft%@! (sorry for the cuss, I've been trying to clean up my language)
Live, Love, Learn!
My web: www.geocities.com/jet_aj
My Car Audio site: www.jdubaudio.com
Post Edited (Jet_aj) : 5/7/2007 6:58:38 PM GMT
I had 2,00 I purchased for a project a couple years ago. I had been selling them 10 at a time on eBay and I am shipping almost 1800 of them to Parallax tomorrow.
And these are the same tags the vet puts into your pets and can be read anywhere in the world. In fact, there tags have been in use in England to keep track of livestock for almost ten years. And 125Khz is an ISO standard and has been a lot longer than 13.56 MHz. 125Khz has not been popular in the US because the tags are all imported from Switzerland and there is only one source of the glass tags in the world.
Oliver
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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
Actually, the ISO standard is 134.2KHz. This has been a bone of contention in the U.S, where 125KHz prevails for pet tags, and which you can read about in the Wikipedia article I cited above. The low frequency tags were pioneered, at least in part, by Texas instruments' TIRIS (now TI-RFid) division in 1991. The glass capsule-enclosed tags were used in livestock for years before the Pet ID market discovered them. Today, they're also used in the ChampionChip system for timing footraces.
Here (from this website) is a photo of a Home Again tag (shown alongside a Veri-Chip, designed for human implant):
Inside this tiny thing, along with the semiconductor electronics, is a wire coil antenna! It's hard to imagine these things can be made economically.
-Phil
Post Edited (Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)) : 5/7/2007 3:39:36 AM GMT
Many thanks on the continued thoughts!! Oliver, thank YOU very much for the confirmation. When I researched this a while back, I had not found anything confirming that the Parallax system would work, nor anything saying it wouldn't. I thought I would gamble, and bought a couple anyway.
At some point, I plan on getting one implanted in myself too. It seems like a really handy thing to have around the house. Plus, from a safety/securtity standpoint, you really can't beat it. With each tag unique, one can really do some fun stuff. Other than the whole "I love Big Brother" concept, I'm really interested in security for my motorbike, locks for my door, computer, etc...
As for the cats, these are awesome. I have 3 (cats). If anyone else here does too, then you know that feeding time, pooping time, and "I wanna go out" time can get overwhelming. Hopefully, with the use of these RFID tags and some hobby electronics, these things can be overcome. I'm particularly interested in the amount of times and frequency that my cats do these things. I'm also interested in not having to open and close the door for them all the time. Also, if one has a cat that is overbearing (I have one that recently recieved the name "Whitechest the Pirate"), you can control feeding, so everyone gets their fair share. I would like to hook up some of the clever force sensors that Parallax sells to monitor the food intake too.
Future cat management projects for PMS (Pussycat Management System, but might better be called FMS, Feline Management System):
Poop management
---When litterbox "gains" a certain weight from the last cleaning, light goes on
---Who uses it, and when
---How much poo does each expunge
Food management
---How much food does each eat
---When does each get hungry
---Management of soft food distribution
Door opener
---I have not cat door (I rent), but I can add actuator
---Prevent them going out at night
---Prevent other animals (like Racoons when I get home) from entering the house
Anyone else have any ideas?
After my previous post yesterday, I was able to update Beau's code, but not download it to my prop due to a crying newborn. I think I am going to try to buy some "offsets" for my "carbon footprint" with my old lady tonight to get this thing working. It is finally raining here in Holland, after about 40 days of (unheard of) sunshine, so that means my cat should be inside too...
-Parsko
Parsko,
You must really love your cats.· A Feline Management System using RFID technology w/ poop monitoring capability.· Wow!· I never would have thought of that.· I have a cat, but use·the old·manual system, monitored mostly by odor (not a pleasent system).· Any way, good luck on your venture and keep us posted on your progress.
agfa
I cannot for the life of me find it again, but if anyone else knows of the link, maybe they could post it.
They had used a power sun roof for the door, and I believe they was just using motion sensors to activate the door. I really like your idea for using the RFID access, it will prevent any UNWANTED strays or Raccoons from using the door.
I'll keep looking as I have time and see if I can find it and post it.
I've very interested in watching the progress of this project. Keep it up. Also, If you want I have used the example 22 RFID code to create an ignition interlock for my sandrail and it may help you in the right direction on storing RFID tag data and accessing it later to preform the output. If you want it to help you in any way PM me and ill send ya the code. I have it in two versions, one with the TV Debug output, (reading the id tag and displaying the correct tag id) and one without the Debug.
Good luck,
Jeremy
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HOLY *@Microsoft%@! (sorry for the cuss, I've been trying to clean up my language)
Live, Love, Learn!
My web: www.geocities.com/jet_aj
My Car Audio site: www.jdubaudio.com
-Phil
Yes, please. Any code that I can find that is known to also known to work would be great.
The door, for now, is the easy part. I have a purchased a few servos and simply need something to trigger them (only to prove the concept). I like the idea of using a sunroof motor, those things are pretty tough, and can be had out of a junkyard quite cheap and easily.
I have all sorts of algorithms for door management, including double doors. Not sure if you picked up on the Pirate mention earlier, but that one is a pain in the butt sometimes for the other two (he's mine, of course
Stink is another thing. I'm trying to source Ozone to kill it, and it works really good. A UV lamp can make the stuff, but I can't figure out how to source or choose one that would produce the right amount. Plus it needs to be exhausted, leading to another algorithm to follow daily trends and clean according to when they will not be in there (ozone kills).
Its just a fun project that I will be doing on the side of other projects, so don't expect fast results please, but I will post everything here for others to implement. The end result will hopefully be only me having to dump/remove/fill bins/bags/containers once a week, and not have to deal with the smell.
Anyway, the modified code I have of Beau's is not working out for me. The cat is luckily sleeping in the chair next to me, but no code. I get this funny feeling that this is a "string" isssue. That seems to be the biggest obstacle for me to study and learn with this project, string management. Still foreign, still figuring it out...
Sleep all,
-Parsko
Edit - Updated with the recent code that ain't workin. It blinks, but no output.
Post Edited (parsko) : 5/7/2007 9:29:34 PM GMT
i'll attached the code in its current form. I hope it helps you in some way. You will most likely have to modify it to control the servos, right now this just controls a relay to allow Start on a vehicle, but it may help. And I have to thank Mike Green for the help he gave me resolving problems I had during creation of the code. (was having problems with being able to compare the known ID tags to the read ID tags to preform the desired function)
GOOD LUCK!
Jeremy
I hope the attachments work... Here ya go, they are in .zip form
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HOLY *@Microsoft%@! (sorry for the cuss, I've been trying to clean up my language)
Live, Love, Learn!
My web: www.geocities.com/jet_aj
My Car Audio site: www.jdubaudio.com
Sorry no cats at home, but ever since I worked on an alpine air purifier I have wanted one of those ozone devices. From replacing some burnt wires in that device I was able to get some grasp of how they work. The sensor is similar to what you see in a fire detector. Check out alpine repair shops, maybe you could get a hold of one of those modules. I am pretty sure it just puts out a high signal when the ozone is above what you have set it to.
Anyway, I will love reading about your progress.
http://www.parallax.com/html_pages/resources/custapps/app_doggy_door.asp
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HOLY *@Microsoft%@! (sorry for the cuss, I've been trying to clean up my language)
Live, Love, Learn!
My web: www.geocities.com/jet_aj
My Car Audio site: www.jdubaudio.com
I'm the one that built the doggy door that Parallax has on their applications site.· It went together in 2000 and it's still going.·· It goes up and down about 30,000 times a year with four dogs.
I am in the process of designing a new controller for it with complete self diagnostics and RFID.·
I can answer any questions you might have about how it was built or how it works.
Daryl
Yes, we'd love to hear more. A few more pictures would also be nice.
30,000 times a year?!? Wow, that's almost 1000 times per day! Thats a lot of opening and closing. Have you had to perform maintenance on it at all? Bearing failures?
Jet,
Yes, you were right about the "BS2.Start(31,30)" I changed that in my code, but it still didn't work. I need to get my hands on an RFID tag that I know works. That will be a better start for me. I tried ordering one yesterday, but it was 20euros for one tag from our Dutch supplier (10x the price!), so I thought I could wait. I'm a bit frustrated with myself for not ordering a $2.50 tag with my readers originally...
Does anyone know of another industry that would supply these tags that I could try locally?
I wish there was a place that described the protocol standard for RFID. Seems that each company is unique, right now, which is a bummer. I'm worried that the protocols are different, or that I'm not grabbing the correct length of string.
It's probably something stupid that is wrong with my code. When I compile it, it starts, the correct lights come on, but it seems to get caught in the "BS2.SERIN_CHAR" command. It will sit there waiting for info, it appears. After about 53 seconds, Never timed it exactly, it will get "unstuck" from the loop, and circle around to the same command, where it gets caught again. I do know that it is this line of code that is causing the wait, from debugging. It will then wait, for what appears to be a MUCH longer time, greater than 53 seconds, before it loops around to the SERIN command again. It iwll keep looping with this VERY long wait, seemingly forever, though I haven't had the patience to test it past 3 loops.
I had originally thought it was my BS2 object, but the same thing happened with your code too (which included your version of the BS2 object). So, i'm baffled. I want to say it is something to do with the BS2.PAUSE command, but don't have much of an argument to back that up, just gut feeling. I would have assumed that it would return zero's, at least, then loop around and grab more zero's, but that isnt' even happening.
Keep in mind, that I have tried this on 3 different sets of code, with 2 different RFID readers. So, I'm not fully convinced it is my code. Hence needing a known good tag...
Any thoughts?
-Parsko
sharpen the pencil, bud.
30k divide by 365 is a bit over 82 times a day. that's 4 dogs going in and out about 10 times or so.
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DOH!!! I think I brained my damage...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_11784_&_11785
LOTS of info and tons of links to other RFID info technology.
gotta run, on the clock.
Jeremy
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HOLY *@Microsoft%@! (sorry for the cuss, I've been trying to clean up my language)
Live, Love, Learn!
My web: www.geocities.com/jet_aj
My Car Audio site: www.jdubaudio.com
i just had a minute to check your ljp.RFID.Tag.ID.Demo_03 program, and it worked for me... It seems kinda skittish but it still would read and display my RFID tags hex ID.
It displayed:
VGA display - Parallax RFID DEMO
3
0000000000
04162C0B0D
0
I know it might be bad news about reading your cats ID's but I wanted to let ya know what I found...
Good Luck!
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HOLY *@Microsoft%@! (sorry for the cuss, I've been trying to clean up my language)
Live, Love, Learn!
My web: www.geocities.com/jet_aj
My Car Audio site: www.jdubaudio.com
The tracks for the dog door came from an 1984-1988 Toyota van.· This van had a middle sun roof with very long tracks which makes it easy to build a dog·door for large dogs.· The motor is out of a 90-92·Camry or Lexus ES250.· This motor has top and bottom limit switches built into the motor.·
There are several safety systems·designed in because this·combination has enough force to kill a small dog.··It uses 4 Sharp GP2D15 sensors to detect the·dogs.· Triggering any sensor opens the door (in normal mode).· There·is an additional·bump switch at the bottom so if something is·in the way, the door won't close.· The·"time to close" is measured and if it takes too long, the door goes back up.·· There is a current limiter on the motor so if there is too much draw, the motor turns off.
The remote control is because we are lazy and didn't always want to run up and down the stairs to change the mode on the door.· There is a series of tones to confirm the change request from the remote.
As I stated in the earlier post, it's been running for seven years now, 24 hours a day.··The counter is to keep track so that I can change brushes in the motor before the motor·quits.· At 60,000 cycles·I put in new brushes and clean the tracks.
A BS2 runs it.· The next version will use a BS2P40.· It will have an LCD with full self diagnostics on every component.· I plan on using the RFID to track which dogs are out and which are in and how much time each dog spent outside during the day.·
Daryl
Thanks for the confirmation!!! I'm not dissappointed at all at the bad news, rather I'm happy that it works, and it's simply my end that isn't. The extra lines of code are for debugging, since it's "free" and easy to do with the Prop...
Daryl,
Thank you too for the input. Your system is much like the one I'm thinking of doing. Except, I have cats. I like the cleverness you placed in the remote, with the tones for different states. I would like to steal that idea, if that's okay?
All,
It seems, after reading TONS of info on this technology, that my HomeAgain tags should work with the Parallax reader. Everything I read says that the HomeAgains are 125kHz, non-encrypted, but inverted. The one thing I am still uncertain of is the bits that get sent out. I wish that the guys at Parallax would chime in regarding the hardware of the reader. I know it may be a secret, but I think there is a pretty big market with dudes like me wanting automatic pet doors to warrant the thoughts. I have a few more links for research purposes:
Great source of RFID homebrewed readers!
More details about the standards from the same dude in the previous link
Datasheet for the EM4095 chip on the Parallax reader
Onboard the Parallax reader is the EM4095, and a PIC. I guess that the PIC reads the data sent out by the EM4095, which I would guess to be a relatively trivial signal. I would also guess that the PIC can be replaced by a Prop, with minimal effort. I think the PIC supplies the reader with the ability to read the 4095, and offer a ucontroller a half-duplex serial connection, that's it. Can you confirm, guys? What I'd like to do, eventually, would be to desolder this, and replace it with a Prop doing the same thing. I know you guys outsourced this to our friends at Grand Idea Studios, so you may not know what the details are. But, I think the one thing that limits this reader from working on all tags (as can be read from teh MaxMicrochip link above), is the PIC. I suggest that, should this be changed, we could all be happy! I don't know anything about PIC's, but I would assume this could be reprogrammed, or even changed at Parallax directly, with somthing capable of working on all tags.
The other detail I'd love to hear more about is the antenna. As I stated earlier, and as Paul suggests, it is a tuned antenna. The guy from Maxmicrochip seems to think this won't make a difference.
These two elements, the PIC and antenna, are a bit out of my league. I can write logic, but not design circuits well.
My next step will be to figure out what Protocol the Parallax tags are using.
I understand that this specific post may not show much progress, but I need to document MY progress, so please bear with me...
Any thoughts?
-Parsko
Tangent: I am very happy with the openness of Parallax. I'm not sure if anyone else reads the Techdirt blog, but they embrace many of the same ideas regarding innovation as Parallax. I have been reading said blog for years, and my eyes and opinions have changed for the better as a result, IMHO.
Tangent 2: My mom is coming (next Wednesday) to stay with us for 6 weeks, I'm gonna try to get a KeyFob on order so I will have a known good one to test...
You are welcome to the idea.
When the power is turned on, the five notes from "Close Encounters" plays.
When the door is set to the locked down position, the sound is three beeps, decending.
When the door is set to the locked up position, the sound is three beeps, ascending.
When the door is in the normal position, the door beeps three notes ascending, two notes decending· (up-down).
When the door is locked down and a dog is inside and wants to go out, two beeps.
When the door is down and a dog wants to come in, it beeps three times.
When you are tired of the door beeping because the Lhasa is stubborn and will continue to stand in front of the door, you can press the down button again and the door will beep four times and the Lhasa knows that he's not going out and will go back to bed.
Daryl
And your dogs are smart too!
Jim C
Thanks again for the summary. I like your last line:
"When you are tired of the door beeping because the Lhasa is stubborn and will continue to stand in front of the door, you can press the down button again and the door will beep four times and the Lhasa knows that he's not going out and will go back to bed."
I'm not sure my cats are that smart!!! This quote reminds me of the South Park episode when they have the cable news show competing with "Dogs with hats"....SUPER CUTE!!!!
From:
www.wsava.org/MicrochipComm4.htm
Just posting more proof that I should be able to do this with this reader. Also, I ordered a key fob yesterday that should arrive to me on Wednesday.
This should subdue my previous rant about replacing the PIC with a Prop (sorry about that one). But, I'm still curious on the protocol used to read from the 4095 to the PIC. I can't tell, from what I have read, if you use the inverted protocol. The 4100 series tags have the following options found in:
The 4100 series tab Datasheet
I suppose this is the more pointed question I have for the Parallax guys. I'm guessing that the PIC is programmed to work with the specific protocol of the tags you supply. Not sure if this protocol is the same or capable of reading my HomeAgain tags. Can you comment?
Thanks,
-Luke
Parallax now has the 8mm tags for you and your cat! If you read the book RFID hacks you know the author implanted a glass tag in his hand. I want to really caution you before doing this. Remember, these are GLASS tags and they can break and cause internal damage. Animals are designed to be much more durable than humans and are designed to survive in the wild, where we aren't. Where the tags are inserted in an animal makes it almost impossible to break unless the animal is hit by a car. There are other complications that can arise in the long term. So please be careful if you decide to pursue this.
Regards,
Oliver
Thanks, never quite thought of that. For now, my only goal is to read the cats' tags, so I can set up maintenance protocols for them. Eventually, I would like it to spread the concept to the rest of my home, but that is not anytime soon (years, not months or days). It'd be nice to eventually come home and have the house initialize for me, computer, pour me a beer, hot shower, etc...
I find it kinda funny to hear that a place like Parallax sells RFID tags that can be implanted in one's cat (both ha-ha funny and "what's up with that" funny!) But, a good busisness model will lead you in directions that could not have been imagined yesterday, right?
I'd love to know if one of the guys there can get one working with their reader, along with tag protocol info (sorry for asking 5 times). I have put this project aside due to the rediculously high cost (1000%, or around 26USD) of getting a single tag to me in Eindhoven, Netherlands. I've called all the local places, but no good news. At some point, I want to take one of the cats over to the local vet, which is 1.1km from my pad, to simply confirm that the tag is indeed present, and working. My better half was the one who had them installed before we came to Europe (I was already here 1 month) so I didn't/couldn't confirm that they were working then. This is but one of three primary projects in my ucontroller life, so it's easy to put it aside and work on something else.
With all that said, I haven't hit F10 in about 5 weeks. I'm a bit frustrated about it, but that's life. I'll find time soon enough...
-Parsko
PS - Sorry my posts are such long rambles, it's lonely being an Expat... (Is that the worlds smallest violin I hear?)