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Atmel128 based Humanoid — Parallax Forums

Atmel128 based Humanoid

SmartguySmartguy Posts: 25
edited 2007-04-01 22:35 in Robotics
Im gonna build a biped using the propeller. I will use Hitec servos. More info to come.

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Intellibrain 2 w/ atmega= 265 dollars
Propeller Proto board= 24.95 dollars
Building a robot using the Propeller= Priceless (Well, almost) wink.gif

Post Edited (Atmega128_is_better_than_stamp) : 4/1/2007 10:28:02 PM GMT

Comments

  • SmartguySmartguy Posts: 25
    edited 2007-03-30 23:14
    Here is the robot im modeling it after. This one costs 20 grand.

    CycliodII.jpg

    Im trying to build mine for under 1000 dollars.

    Post Edited By Moderator (Chris Savage (Parallax)) : 3/31/2007 2:15:49 AM GMT
  • T0mT0m Posts: 124
    edited 2007-03-30 23:21
    Atmega, dont you think you are in the wrong house.
    I think we can build a better humanoid with Parallax products.
    Tom
  • T0mT0m Posts: 124
    edited 2007-03-30 23:32
    Just some advice........thats not a good way to break the ice.
    After all a good number of us use the basic stamp.
    T
  • T0mT0m Posts: 124
    edited 2007-03-30 23:35
    Many of us use the Basic Stamp....Parallax was built up around the basic stamp.
  • T0mT0m Posts: 124
    edited 2007-03-30 23:39
    Anyway your project looks interesting. Why dont you have a look at some of the newer Parallax chips like the Propeller.
  • T0mT0m Posts: 124
    edited 2007-03-30 23:48
    Sorry I had not, But I can tell you that you will have more documentation on parallax products then you will on what ever that thing was that you said....By the way if you use that other one be sure to do a search on it first, look for EEPROM difficults some have had and make sure those problems have been worked out.
  • LarryLarry Posts: 212
    edited 2007-03-31 00:13
    The answer to your original question, which hasn't been answered yet, is yes. The documentation for how to do that won't be here, it will be in the documentation that Atmel or your compiler author provides for outputting the serial strings the servo controller requires.

    Good luck in your search.

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  • SmartguySmartguy Posts: 25
    edited 2007-03-31 00:16
    Thank you Larry/Donald Duck.

    Post Edited By Moderator (Chris Savage (Parallax)) : 3/31/2007 2:16:25 AM GMT
  • SmartguySmartguy Posts: 25
    edited 2007-03-31 00:26
    Hitec or Futuba for this project. 100 oz/in or more goes for about 30 dollars a servo. This is a 23 servo 'bot. For the Futuba S3104 (27.99 dollars each and 127.7 oz/in), that translates to 643.77. With the addition of 2 servo controllers ($39.95 each) and Intellibrain with Atmel processor($265). That adds up to 988.67. Might have to switch to Propeller for cost problems.

    List of materials so far:
    -23 Futuba S3104 servos
    -1 Parallax serial servo controller
    -1 Atmel Atmega128 on Intellibrain board (or propeller for cost issues)
    -1 Video camera for color tracking, motion detection, etc. (What kind should i use. CMU3 is my first idea but maybe a cheap wireless micro cam might work)

    Im low on extra cash so if someone can donate soemthing for this project that would be great. I dont know whether I should use the propeller or Intellibrain for the mainboard. Any suggestions are welcome.

    Post Edited By Moderator (Chris Savage (Parallax)) : 3/31/2007 2:16:32 AM GMT
  • SmartguySmartguy Posts: 25
    edited 2007-03-31 00:47
    Here are two situations.

    With Intellibrain: 988.67 plus 109.00 for CMU=$1097.67

    With Propeller=$862.62

    Intellibrain is faster.

    Propeller is cheaper.

    WHAT SHOULD I DO!!!!

    Post Edited By Moderator (Chris Savage (Parallax)) : 3/31/2007 2:16:38 AM GMT
  • SmartguySmartguy Posts: 25
    edited 2007-03-31 00:50
    I dont know if I can fit all the electronics in a body like the one above. I mean ill need two servo controllers, a proto board w/ an extra propeller( or Intellibrain which is about the size of a BOE board), a CMU cam, and probably some bluetooth system just to monitor progress and maybe MSRS.

    Post Edited By Moderator (Chris Savage (Parallax)) : 3/31/2007 2:16:44 AM GMT
  • FranklinFranklin Posts: 4,747
    edited 2007-03-31 00:59
    You're not going to make your goal of $1000 either way.

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    - Stephen
  • SmartguySmartguy Posts: 25
    edited 2007-03-31 01:00
    Yeah i kind of realized that way back when i discovered this was 23 servos.

    Post Edited By Moderator (Chris Savage (Parallax)) : 3/31/2007 2:16:51 AM GMT
  • SmartguySmartguy Posts: 25
    edited 2007-03-31 01:00
    thanks for the supportive response! [noparse];)[/noparse]

    Post Edited By Moderator (Chris Savage (Parallax)) : 3/31/2007 2:15:32 AM GMT
  • T0mT0m Posts: 124
    edited 2007-03-31 01:00
    Its going to need a backpack.....you know , like the ones NASA straps on the rocket jockeys.
    Tom
  • SmartguySmartguy Posts: 25
    edited 2007-03-31 01:02
    But check out this Robotis vids at Tribotix.com. It needs to be manueverable like they are.

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    Intellibrain 2 w/ atmega= 265 dollars
    Propeller Proto board= 24.95 dollars
    Building a robot using the Propeller= Priceless (Well, almost) wink.gif

    Post Edited (Atmega128_is_better_than_stamp) : 4/1/2007 10:27:25 PM GMT
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2007-03-31 01:26
    Spamming the PM's probably won't win you favor here either. Neat project, use the chip that works best for what you are doing. Most importantly have fun.

    Oldbit
  • SkogsgurraSkogsgurra Posts: 231
    edited 2007-04-01 04:19
    What about the hard hardware (mechanical things)? I would add another couple of thousand bucks for that. At least.

    So, the USD 1000 goal seems to be lost before you even start thinking processors and servos.

    BTW. Why do you say the Intellibrain is faster than the Prop? Is it really? I mean 160 MIPS (32 bit) is hard to beat.

    Edit: The Atmega128 is an eightbitter with a 16 MHz clock. A nice chip as nice chips go. But having power like a few percent of the Prop.·A couple of 8 bit and·16 bit counters - the Prop has sixteen 32 bit counters. Instead of one 8 bit 16 MHz processor in the Atmega128 the Propeller has eight 32 bit processors ckocked at 80 MHz. The two chips are·in two different·worlds. I recommend a reality check - and, of course, the Propeller. Even pricing is better - catalogue price for the Prop is around half the catalogue price for the Atmega128 processor.

    Power compares·like (16x8)/(160x32) or 1/40 or 2.5 %. So, you pay twice as much for 2.5 % of the performance.· And that's not the end of the story. If you ever wanted to do what the Prop can do, performance-wise, you just cannot do it. A multiprocessor system based on the Atmega128 would not be effective - the administration of communication between processors would choke the whole system already somewhere between five or ten processors. The point of diminishing return is probably even lower. To top it off, counter resolution like 12.5 ns, video generator built-in, phoneme generator, flexible communication are all a possibility with the Prop. You need external peripheral circuits for that if you take the Atmega128 road.

    I have considered Atmega128 for a couple of projects, but could not use it. Not enough power. Now, when I have tested the Prop features and power, I can not only do what I need to do. I can also replace the 4x20 character alphanumeric display with a 2.5" colour LCD with full graphics. I can measure with a much better temporal resolution and I am even thinking of adding voice output, which will be very valuable when measuring on fast rotating shafts in heavy machinery. Much better safety.

    Post Edited (Skogsgurra) : 4/1/2007 10:45:07 AM GMT
  • SkogsgurraSkogsgurra Posts: 231
    edited 2007-04-01 17:16
    The private mail possibility is a mixed blessing. The guy who started this thread just mailed me asking why I use the Prop. Saying that it is horrible and that I should use the Atmega128 instead. I don't care to answer that. Has that l-n-t-c mailed others as well?
  • QuattroRS4QuattroRS4 Posts: 916
    edited 2007-04-01 17:50
    Skogsgurra - I am not Quite sure what his deal is ? What has he done with a prop. ? - Obviously not a lot - If he did use the prop. and had any difficulty he would have got a lot of support ... his loss..

    Quattro

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    'Necessity is the mother of invention'
  • SkogsgurraSkogsgurra Posts: 231
    edited 2007-04-01 18:36
    Maybe he thinks the Prop is 'nother Stamp?
  • SmartguySmartguy Posts: 25
    edited 2007-04-01 22:07
    In one of my propeller projects I received several "you can not do this on a propeller you complete newbie" not on Parallax but on yahoo robotics groups. This got so bad that i started believing it. sorry.

    Propeller: Faster, Cheaper

    YAY. PROPELLER IT IS!!!!!
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,392
    edited 2007-04-01 22:16
    This is a non-productive thread and seems to contain much disregard for Parallax's sponsorship of the forums.

    For now, it will be locked while it is under review by our forum moderators.

    Ken Gracey
    Parallax, Inc.
  • SmartguySmartguy Posts: 25
    edited 2007-04-01 22:29
    Well the brain is now a Propeller.

    Does anyone know how to modify a Futaba S3305 to go 180 degrees total instead of 90 total?

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    Intellibrain 2 w/ atmega= 265 dollars
    Propeller Proto board= 24.95 dollars
    Building a robot using the Propeller= Priceless (Well, almost) wink.gif
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2007-04-01 22:35
    This thread is being locked...Please start a new one.

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    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
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