Robotics in everyday Life

crgwbr

I apoligize if the moderaters don't·feel·this post is apporpiate.· If that is the case please just remove it.· Anyway, I'm doing a project for school that deals with how robotics and electronics have changed out environment and our everyday life.· I've thought of quite a few things already (Like CNC machines and Computers in the office), I just wanted to open it up to you guys in case you could think of anything I havn't.

Thanks,
crgwbr

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NerdMaster
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Zoot

Depends on your definition of robots, I suppose. Here are everyday items that I would classify as robots, but that may not be thought of as robots because they don't necessarily roll around or move with motors or they don't look like robots, etc ---

- smoke detectors -- behavior: "I smell smoke so I will make a loud sound"

- garage-door openers -- behavior: "I detect a radio frequency that I know, I will open a door until it travels far enough. If my light beam is broken, I will stop and blink my light"

- toaster-ovens -- behavior: "I will heat up, then cool down, then heat up, over and over again to maintain an average temperature. After 5 minutes, I will ring my bell and stop"

- red-light cameras -- behavior: "If a car goes by me too quickly, I will take a picture and email it to the police"

- toys -- behavior: "When you push my button, I will act cute and fuzzy for 30 seconds, then I will turn off"

- medical equipment -- behavior: "Every 10 seconds I will allow a precise mixture and amount of medicine to drip into my patient's arm. If anything strange happens, or I run out of medicine, I will notify the nurse."

- medical equipment -- behavior: "I will precisely send out an electrical impulse to keep my host's human heart beating at the right frequency. If it starts beating too fast or too slow, I will try to adjust what I am doing to compensate."

Etc.

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When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST

PJAllen

By that "definition" what "machine", then, is NOT a "robot"?·

toilets -- behavior: I detect that a lever has been pushed down, the water is let out of the tank into the commode, swirls about for "programmed" time, and the yucky stuff is transported elsewhere.

UPDATE:· I think "robot" and "autonomous" are likely the two most over-used words and over-blown "concepts" on these forums --· it's a "robot" because I call it such, it's "autonomous" because I like the sound of that word.


Post Edited (PJ Allen) : 2/18/2007 12:59:01 AM GMT

crgwbr

PJ Allen, you're right. The term robot is way overused, and as far as my project goes, I am speaking 'bout real robots. For example, with a CNC Machine, you load some G-Code and a peice of metal, zero out the axis, and let it go. It is autonomis. Also, no, a computer in the office is not a robot by anyone's definition. There I would be covering how the electronic device (the computer) has changed the way work gets done and also how it has drasictly affected the environment by saveing trees, ect.

Post Edit: I really hope you guys don't think that I'm trying to premote the overuse of the words robot and autonimis.· I get just as annoyed as you do when I here someone talking about a 'robot' just because it walks, ect.

Thanks,
crgwbr

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NerdMaster
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Post Edited (crgwbr) : 2/18/2007 1:31:28 AM GMT

Zoot

Didn't mean to hit a nerve, PJ, really. But the definition of robot is a bit loose, and while the terms "robot" and "autonomous" may be overused at the forums, I would still argue that perhaps with the exception of the toy example above, they are robots. They act autonomously whether or not there is a human there. Maybe a better term for some of those examples would be "parabots" -- machines that exhibit reflex behaviors rather than autonomous decision making.

That said, I hit the ol' Websters:

Somebody said...
ro·bot /ˈroʊbət, -bɒt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[noparse][[/noparse]roh-buht, -bot] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a machine that resembles a human and does mechanical, routine tasks on command.
2. a person who acts and responds in a mechanical, routine manner, usually subject to another's will; automaton.
3. any machine or mechanical device that operates automatically with humanlike skill.
–adjective
4. operating automatically: a robot train operating between airline terminals.

So a lot of the examples hit defs. 1, 3 and 4 pretty clearly. A toilet would not -- it does nothing on it's own unless a human operates it. I think computers are trickier and may depend on the purpose -- if a computer automatically runs the lights in my house, downloads it's own updates, turns itself on and off, could that be considered robotic?

In any case, crgwbr, it seems like you are discussing what most would call more traditional robotics? Where there is a clear mechanical and motive component?

I would also argue about the environmental impact of electronics and computers in general. One of Intel's biggest Fabs is right across the river from me (I can see the lights on a clear night). They use more than 4,000,000 gallons of water per day, all of which is unfit for use afterwards. The chemicals and processes used in modern electronics are highly toxic, and the amount of techno-junk leeching into landfills creating poisonous water tables is fairly well-documented. You might also want to take a gander at some of the open-pit mines where minerals are extracted for refining and use in modern electronics (some of these mines are visible from space). At best it might be a wash. Don't get me wrong, I'm not turning off my electronics, but it's not so simple.

Lastly, I will have to agree with you PJ -- it's a robot because someone says it is

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When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST

crgwbr

Well said, Zoot.· I didn't realize how much environmental damage modern electronics really does to the environment.· Like you, I am never going to get rid of my electronics.· I guess, depending on how you look at it, it could be just shifting damage from one area to another.· Just out of curiosity, what does intel use 4,000,000 gallions of water for to make processors?

Craig

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NerdMaster
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John R.

Zoot said...

A toilet would not -- it does nothing on it's own unless a human operates it.

I'm not sure I agree with that analogy. My toaster oven doesn't get warm unless I tell it to. For that matter, the CNC machine doesn't do a darned thing unless someone tells it to. Now either the water closet is a robot, or the other stuff isn't

For the record, I'd call a CNC machine a robot, but not a toaster oven. I'm not sure where the line is, so I guess I'll go along with "It's a robot because someone says it is."

I'm even fuzzier on the autonomous. I don't buy a smoke detector being autonomous. For openers, there is no "decision" making process, just an audio alarm activated by an input. _I_ also wouldn't call a BOE Bot following a line "autonomous". Now, a robot going into an "unknown" environment, and finding a specific item on its own, and returning _might_ be autonomous. If there were hazards and especially predators, then I'd defintely go with autonomous. I don't think there are all than many things right now that are "truely" autonomous. In my mind (i.e. personal opinion), this implies a fairly high level decision making process, not just a pre-defined action based on simple inputs.

Don't ask me where "pre-defined action" stops and "decision making process" begins. I don't know. Like the judge said: "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it". (I confess, I don't remember who, but the what is not appropriate for this forum.)

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John R.
Click here to see my Nomad Build Log

PJAllen

PJ Allen said, "...it's a "robot" because I call it such..."

I was·not advocating the "proposition" as valid, everybody -- quite the contrary, it's absurd.
If you can call a CNC machine a robot, then why can't you call it a toaster?··

agfa

I tend to lump robotics, automation(not originally mentioned), and autonomous(not originally mentioned)·together to a certain degree.· Maybe the definition wasn't the original intent of the post.

Regarding the original post.· For every advantage technology provides there is a disadvantage.· Most of these technologies·are a result of industry's attempts to reduce the cost of labor.· So the advantage is lower priced products(or higher profits).· The disadvantage is fewer labor jobs.

Zoot

PJ -- you crack me up... esp. after a long night with the kids.... I know you were being absurd, but like crwgbr said, it probably is a case of "you know it when you see it". It's like the "heeby-jeebie" factor with genetic manipulation -- there is some line that gets crossed where folks get really uncomfortable. It's OK to put a pacemaker in, and not think of yourself as a 'borg, but go a little further and it's very ... inhuman.

crwgbr -- your original post refers to robotics and electronics changing everyday life. I would like to add something to your most recent post -- robotics in industry do not just have profit advantage -- they have a repeatibility and a safety advantage. I've worked factory floors, and I can tell you right now there are jobs it is better to have a robot do. Jobs that could kill a human if a mistake were made, and jobs that humans can't do with the same infinite patience and precision, day in day out. Yes some jobs are lost, but whatever happened to all the blacksmiths? Who saved their jobs? I also think this is where the definition of "autonomous" becomes important ... perhaps it is the humans who are best at true autonomous decision making (the PLAN, as it were) and "parabots" who are better suited to the menial, repetitive tasks (like making the water swirl down a toilet). I think one of the biggest effects of electronics has been to both highlight what it is to be human AND to free humans to do the things they do best -- invent, plan, create -- rather than acting like human smoke detectors, elevevator operators, etc.

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When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST

crgwbr

I think you're right Zoot.· The definition of autonomous is:·

1. Not controlled by others or by outside forces; independent: an autonomous judiciary; an autonomous division of a corporate conglomerate.
2. Independent in mind or judgment; self-directed.
3. Independent of the laws of another state or government; self-governing.
4. Of or relating to a self-governing entity: an autonomous legislature.
5. Self-governing with respect to local or internal affairs: an autonomous region of a country.
6. Autonomic.

Robot is defined as:

1. A mechanical device that sometimes resembles a human and is capable of performing a variety of often complex human tasks on command or by being programmed in advance.
2. A machine or device that operates automatically or by remote control.
3. A person who works mechanically without original thought, especially one who responds automatically to the commands of others.

Acording to these definitions I feel that a CNC mill would count as an autonomis robot; a toster oven would not.· Also Zoot, the safty aspect of robots is not somthing I had thought of.· If you had to go into a radiation contaminated sight, it's a lot better to let the radiation fry a million $ worth of electronics than to grusomly kill a person.

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manxstamp

As previous posts have stated, the 'definition' of robot seems to change according to different points of view. A recent and annoying misuse is for an unintellingent radio-controlled vehicle, as in 'robot wars'.

Any proper definition should return to the root and origin of the word: Early 20th century. Via German < Czech, < robota "forced labour"; coined by Karel Čapek in his play R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots) (1920). In the play, robots are artificial versions of humans, with the senses, reasoning and motor ability of humans,·and it is those qualities·which lead to the correct definition, best expressed in this brief version which gives the three essential robotic processes:

A robot is a machine that gathers information about its environment (senses) and uses that information (thinks) to follow instructions to do work (acts).

A robot must have the ability to react to its environment and alter its behaviour and ideally have considerable flexibility in that ability, almost like a living organism. A device that can only follow a set routine is a machine and not a robot.



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---

Manxstamp,
Isle of Man, British Isles

Zoot

manxstamp, *that* is a good definition. I read the play years ago but hadn't revisited it.

I guess scratch my examples, unless you're talking about electronics per se. At least here in my workshop, I *am* building robots.

crgwbr -- to the best of my knowledge, the water is used in "washes" -- cleaning wafers after they are made. Some of the engineers around the forums I'm sure know more about these processes. Intel got into a huge amount of trouble here not for the processes themselves, but because they violated their state permit for the amount of water used/discharged (a huge settlement resulted). Don't get me wrong, I'm not slamming Intel (I'm a Mac user, myself though), that's just the facts. Apple actually, just received the top honors for using the MOST toxic processes of any hardware manufacturers -- apparently they use 100% non-recyclable and toxic materials in their products. But I digress.

So... would a "robotic" welder or painter on an auto-assembly line be a robot or a machine? A machine I would think?

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crgwbr

In a way, I think that it's both a robot and not. It's not gathering a whole lot of information for itself; just the position of the car it's painting/welding. Therefore, acording to manxstamp's definition, it is a robot, just not a full blown andriod with super smart AI (ie: robot- yes Data- no).

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NerdMaster
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Zoot

They're automatons!

Somebody said...
automaton –noun, plural -tons, -ta /-tə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[noparse][[/noparse]-tuh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation.
1. a mechanical figure or contrivance constructed to act as if by its own motive power; robot.
2. a person or animal that acts in a monotonous, routine manner, without active intelligence.
3. something capable of acting automatically or without an external motive force.

Fits the bill for a lot of my examples.

Alternate colloquial definition for #1 -- an automaton is a machine that wishes it were a robot....

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When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST