Hydra beginner problems

fred2

My HYDRA arrived yesterday - naturally, I was anxious to get started.· I have a background in assembly for the 6502, Z80, PDP8, etc. in the really really OLD days.· This product sounded a lot like some of my earlier fun efforts on those chips and systems.

I followed faithfully the instructions for testing the unit with Parallaxaroids using the TV's A/V input and really enjoyed the display on a 32 inch HD monitor.· The BREAKOUT cartridge was also impressive and I was delighted that everything seemed to have arrived okay.

Next, after reading the HYDRA text for most of the day, I tried hooking up the USB connection so I could try the manual's instruction to load the ASTEROIDS demo.
Loading the USB driver seemed to go okay, but when I tried the F10 key to compile and load to ram, I got an error display that said the Propellor could not be found on COM1 or COM4.· The Device Manager showed it to be present and the earlier loading of the FTDI driver had indicated a success, so I am puzzled by this -- and disappointed too!

Has anyone else had this problem?· I have tried reloading the driver two or three times and tested the success by displaying all the hardware in Device Manager.· It sees the FTDI on the COM4 port but when I try to download the HYDRA, I keep getting the error message that there is no Propellor present on COM1 or COM4.· I could be forgetting something, I occasionally seem to be a victim of creeping Alzheimer's...

Fred2

Brian_B

Fred2,
If you have another program thats using that port it won't work , also make sure to shut down your computer & restarting it and then trying it

Brian

sam_sam_sam

fred2
Are you using·a laptop computer if so there some setting that you have to set to get this to work
Which i have tried to find for you but can seem to anything but have read it before




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··Thanks for any··that you may have and all of your time finding them

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Sam

Post Edited (sam_sam_sam) : 1/22/2007 5:45:38 AM GMT

AndreL

Also, there are a number of steps to installing the FTDI driver, if you don't follow them to the letter (As outlined in the hydra book) then you might have trouble. The GOOD news, everyone that uses the propeller chip and the FTDI usb devices has this trouble to different extents (sometimes the driver and IDE work perfectly, sometimes not), the FTDI drivers are just finicky. So, if you didn't follow my instructions exactly, something might still be misinstalled. you can simply uninstall the driver and try again. Also, FTDI's site has new installers all the time, and you might take a look, I have checked in 2 months. But, bottom line is it will work fine, you just have to get it to install correctly and detect the right com port, also you have to make sure nothing else is on the com port as noted since it will conflict.

But, FTDI sell millions of these chips, so they work, but they aren't the worlds greatest driver installer programmers [noparse]:)[/noparse] So when you install these drivers you either have no trouble, or you have to do it 2-3 times to get it right.

So try again, maybe do a remove driver pass then re-install.

Andre'

Dreamwriter

I hate to mention this, it's so simple, but I've forgotten about this a couple times...make sure the Hydra is turned on when you compile.

fred2

Thanks for all the help! I was surprised by the number of replies -- also very pleased...

As far as I know, there is nothing else using COM4, in fact, this is the first time I am aware that it has ever been
installed. It shows up perfectly in Device Manager and when I reboot I can see the transmit and receive LEDs
on the HYDRA showing activity during the boot process.

I am using a full-scale desktop computer. I went to the FTDI website and downloaded the most current copy
of the driver and tried installing that. I got a message that the driver didn't need installing since it was not an
updated copy so that the current copy on the HYDRA CD seems to be current.

I will try some re-installs since that seems to be the only way to go right now. I tried moving everything to
another computer to see if the original computer could have been the problem but the problem seemed to be
on that one also.

Once again, thanks for all the responses and I am really excited by this wonderful product!!

Fred2

Brian_B

Fred2,
I was having problems with my usb and I changed chips, I think maybe the chip wasn't pushed in all the way , you could try that ( pushing the chip in).

Brian

fred2

Thanks for the suggestion, Brian. I pushed the two removable chips firmly but no difference.

I tried removing and re-installing the driver. No difference.

I tried a different USB port. No difference.

I tried removing and re-installing all the software. No difference.

When I push the F10 button for a compilation, I see the TX led flash on the USB Engine so I assume
that COM4 is scanned -- I don't see the RX led respond, though. Not sure if that is significant but the
error message does indicate "No Propellor chip found on any port. COM4 scanned"

Device Manager still sees hardware on the USB and COM4. Properties shows driver installed and
working correctly.

A cold reboot shows lots of TX and RX activity in the USB Engine. At this point I have no idea what to
do next. Unless there is some kind of way to possibly check on the USB Engine since the TX and RX
leds do show that there is communication that far. Is there a way to bypass that one and use the USB2SER
attachment?

I'm still excited about the product, just real anxious to get to that Propellor chip!!

Fred2

lnielsen

Have you tried a serial port monitoring tool to see what is being transmitted and received? Here is one from Microsoft's site...
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/utilities/portmon.mspx

I don't have my board yet so I can not try it with the FTDI port.

Len

Brian_B

len,
This is totally somthing differnt , but thank's for the tip on port-mon , now i can see that hyperterminal is sending

Thank's Brian

fred2

Thanks for the suggestion, Len. I have downloaded the tool and used it by copying the USB interchange as you
suggested. Here is the result:

0 0.01363106 Propeller.exe IRP_MJ_CREATE VCP0 SUCCESS Options: Open
1 0.00000307 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_GET_BAUD_RATE VCP0 SUCCESS
2 0.00000223 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_GET_LINE_CONTROL VCP0 SUCCESS
3 0.00000196 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_GET_CHARS VCP0 SUCCESS
4 0.00000223 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_GET_HANDFLOW VCP0 SUCCESS
5 0.00000196 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_GET_BAUD_RATE VCP0 SUCCESS
6 0.00000196 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_GET_LINE_CONTROL VCP0 SUCCESS
7 0.00000223 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_GET_CHARS VCP0 SUCCESS
8 0.00000168 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_GET_HANDFLOW VCP0 SUCCESS
9 0.00088251 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_BAUD_RATE VCP0 SUCCESS Rate: 115200
10 0.00098756 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_CLR_RTS VCP0 SUCCESS
11 0.00098867 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_CLR_DTR VCP0 SUCCESS
12 0.00098784 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_LINE_CONTROL VCP0 SUCCESS StopBits: 1 Parity: NONE WordLength: 8
13 0.00000196 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_CHAR VCP0 SUCCESS EOF:0 ERR:0 BRK:0 EVT:0 XON:11 XOFF:13
14 0.00097498 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_HANDFLOW VCP0 SUCCESS Shake:0 Replace:0 XonLimit:2048 XoffLimit:512
15 0.00000251 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_TIMEOUTS VCP0 SUCCESS RI:-1 RM:0 RC:0 WM:0 WC:0
16 0.00097303 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_SET_DTR VCP0 SUCCESS
17 0.00076462 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_CLR_DTR VCP0 SUCCESS
18 0.00000447 Propeller.exe IOCTL_SERIAL_PURGE VCP0 SUCCESS Purge: RXCLEAR
19 0.01175429 Propeller.exe IRP_MJ_WRITE VCP0 SUCCESS Length 256: ................................................................
20 0.02181786 Propeller.exe IRP_MJ_WRITE VCP0 SUCCESS Length 253: ................................................................
21 0.00000335 Propeller.exe IRP_MJ_READ VCP0 SUCCESS Length 0:

Then it continues on with the same information until the end:

20579 0.00000223 Propeller.exe IRP_MJ_READ VCP0 SUCCESS Length 0:
20580 0.00000251 Propeller.exe IRP_MJ_READ VCP0 SUCCESS Length 0:
20581 0.00000307 Propeller.exe IRP_MJ_CLEANUP VCP0 SUCCESS
20582 0.11535014 Propeller.exe IRP_MJ_CLOSE VCP0 SUCCESS

I am curious about the baud rate set at line 9 -- Device Manager shows a setting of 9600 for that hardware which
is certainly a mismatch. Are those parameters significant?

Anyway, thanks again for the suggestion and hopefully this may help in the problem.

Fred2

AndreL

Hmmm, could be a problem, those are usually overridden by the driver, but definitely seems like you simply have a conflict, for kicks set it to 115K baud, n81, and see if that helps. Also, if you have another laptop or PC to install the IDE and ftdi drivers that might be an idea. Also, the Propeller / FTDI combo on the HYDRA and the parallax demo board is identical, so definnitely post in the propeller forum and the author of the IDE might have some ideas as well. For example, his app could be detecting the WRONG com port and thus you can't detect, that kind of stuff can happen as well.

LASTLY, like I said, try a removal and re-install and make sure you do the steps as outlined in the book ALSO try using another USB port for kicks.

Andre'

fred2

No luck with the 115k, still get the same message about "No Propellor..." and states that it has scanned COM4. I can see
the TX led lighting up on the USB engine. I have tried another computer previously to install the IDE and software.

Tried using different USB ports also.

I will re-read the Installation docs again closely and repeat the installation. I've already done that but I
will try again. I can't think of anything more at this point.

Fred2

Brian_B

Fred2,
Try downloading the propeller tool from parallax's web site and setting up that version , make sure that when it ask if you want to auto update usb drivers "say yes". I don't know if this will help , but we would sure like to add you to the user list


Brian

AndreL

Hmm, well the good news is this, the HYRDA has to work, since if it didn't we couldn't load the test program on it when it shipped. So it HAS to be something at your end OR during shipping the Propeller chip got loose specifically on the programming pins? That is a long shot, so push the chip in, also if you have some compressed air give the system a good blow.

The system booted up with the asteroids game, and the game on the cart worked. So this means the unit works and was programable from from the IDE at the test bench of the worker, thus there is some kind of conflict with the FTDI driver and your system or the order of operations hosed something. There is also a tool on the FTDI site (I believe) that REMOVES a previous erroneous install.

But, if when you did the install, windows Pnp saw the device, you installed the drivers correctly and it said "your hardware is ready to use", then the driver was probably installed correctly and its some anomaly potentially with the IDE not detecting something correctly.

Also, what version of windows are you using? The ide is only tested on XP and windows 2000 I believe, I don't think its tested on Windows 2003, ME, NT, or Vista, and the problem its mostly not going to work on Windows 95/98.

However, when I originally installed the FTDI drivers and the IDE, I had to do it like 3x to get it to work, it either works or doesn't when it doesn't you have to uninstall, remove the USB, try another port, then redo it. Now, everything works perfectly, but everytime I install these drivers on a new system, its definitely a hold your breath experience.

You will get it, let's just keep working away at what the variables are...

Andre'

fred2

Thanks for both current replies -- I appreciate the encouragement -- really need it right now since I am almost
"foaming at the mouth" to get to the Propeller chip. I have no doubt that the HYDRA is okay, the two test programs
performed wonderfully.

I have pushed the chips into the sockets firmly, they didn't seem to be loose at all.

I am convinced that the FTDI was installed correctly, I got the proper messages during installation and the
Device Manager indicates that everything is working properly. I have re-installed about 5 times now with
no change in the results.

I changed USB ports twice, the second time I moved a working device out of a port and used that one
for the HYDRA. I am using Windows XP -- I have had no previous problems with it

I am beginning to think that there may be some kind of problem with the computer, although this is the
second one I have tried it on with the same results. I think perhaps the FTDI system is overly sensitive.
The serial monitor program apparently showed successful results though. BIG MYSTERY!!!

Thanks for the encouragement. I'll keep trying different things.

Fred2

Brian_B

Fred,
If you unplug & replug in the usb cable does your computer make a beeping noise ?

Brian


P.S This might sound like a goofy question , but· I tried it on all my xp computers and they beep to let me know that a usb device has been pluged in , just curious if your computer is "seeing " the hydra.

Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 1/23/2007 10:47:54 AM GMT

fred2

Yes, the computer recognizes the plug and unplug and gives the ding-dong sound.

Where is the Propeller tool on the Parallax website? I couldn't find it this morning but that was
before my morning coffee -- blah!

Continuing to read The Book in between attempts.

Fred.

Brian_B

fred,

http://www.parallax.com/propeller/downloads.asp


Brian

p.s. if your getting that much reading done ,I'm going to start asking you questions pretty quick·

Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 1/23/2007 11:05:17 AM GMT

fred2

SUCCESS!

I don't know why -- I downloaded the Propellor Tool from the Parallax website and installed it.
For some reason, I still had the mouse plugged into the mouse connector and I removed it.
When I hit F9 on the new Tool, it loaded and verified!

Then I began to wonder about the other Hydra, so I tried that one and it worked!

Then I plugged the mouse back in the connector, tried the Hydra again and this time it failed.

When I removed the mouse and tried Hydra again, it worked. So it must have been the mouse
causing the problem all along.

I see the two blue leds next to the on/off switch, D1 and D2. When the mouse is plugged in, D1
goes out and the Propellor download fails.l When the mouse is unplugged, both lights are on and
the Propellor download is successful. I don't see D1 and D2 on the schematic, there is an led
monitoring the 3.3v that is shown as green, so that might be D1 but there is no indication of D2.

Anyway, I am thrilled to apparently be able to now do some work on the Propellor. Thanks, guys!!

Fred2

AndreL

So you are saying that plugging the mouse into the hydra is causing it not to program? If so, that's a 1st [noparse]:)[/noparse] Try another mouse. But, I have seen bad mice before, but still at worst it would drag the comm lines down which have nothing to do with the programming lines. So blow some air on there, make sure there isn't a short or piece of something, try another mouse. But, didn't you say that the breakout and asteroids game worked? If so they use the mouse, thus the mouse works.

Andre'

fred2

Yes, the mouse worked with the demo programs. Right now, I can plug it in and the blue led marked D1 will
go out and if I use F9 to load a program, I will get a message that the Propellor is not found on any com and
com4 scanned.

If I remove the mouse, the blue led marked D1 will come back on and my F9 function will be successful --
or at least the load and verify indicators work. I tried to load the VGA demo program and test it with a
VGA monitor but nothing happened -- is the VGA display supposed to start right up?

Don't have access to an A/V device right now - waiting for some equipment to arrive.

I will have to scrounge another mouse somewhere and see if that makes any difference.

Fred2

AndreL

The VGA demo should work fine, just make sure you switch the VGA enable on/off swtich to ON, did you do that?

Andre'

fred2

Yes, the switch is in the "on" position - I made sure of that right away since I saw the warning in the book.

I loaded VGA_Term.spin and tapped F9, but no response on the screen, then F10 to load the eeprom and
no response. Then I loaded RGW_VGA_Test.spin, tapped F9 and got the message on the screen:

40k HZ 92.2Hz

OUT OF RANGE

Then I pushed Reset and got a message "No Signal Present"

It is an LCD StarLogic 20" monitor

The manual says "This warning idicates the input signal frequency does not match those supported by the monitor.
For this model, horizontal frequency must be in the range of 31.5 - 80 khz and vertical frequency in the range of
56 - 75Hz"

According to the monitor manual, the On Screen Display has a "Display Adjust" selection that adjusts the
frequency and phase of the PLL clock. There are 22 modes available from 640x350 at 50, 60 or 70Hz to
1680x1050 at 60Hz.

My knowledge of VGA techniques and specifications is just about nil, so perhaps this monitor is not useable
with the HYDRA board?

Onward and upward. My A/V source is on it's way.

Fred2

AndreL

Well, first, use the demos for the hydra specifically, not demo board demos, they might not work right even though, I believe we used the same port for example. If you look at the book, on the VGA section, there is a program there to test called vgachrs_010.spin. Remember, if there isn't a version on it, then its not tested. All the hydra programs have versions for the programs and drivers, anything else you find in the source directory is just "fuzz" for your edification.

Andre'

fred2

My TV/Monitor arrived and I have been trying the TV demos. They look fine, except they are split on the
screen -- about 9/10 of the page starting on the left, a gap, and then 1/10 of the page filling out the rest
of the screen. It is as if the screen display begins about one tenth of the way into the full page and the beginning
0f the page is at the right end. It also appears to be truncated at the top.

I suppose it might be the timing on the TV driver is slightly off or else the monitor hardware screen settings need
an adjustment. The display looks good, though.

I did try another mouse on the HYDRA and it did not extinguish the D1 led and the HYDRA board did do
successful downloading with the mouse plugged in. This indicates that the original mouse has a problem -- seems
strange since it did work with the test programs that come with the unit originally.

I feel like I have learned more about the system and now I am excited about being able to learn
even more and do some original creative work.

A word about the unit I am using for the display -- it is a Magnavox 15 inch LCD Television that can also be
used as a monitor. It has input connectors for A/V, VGA, S-Video, Composite and contains a 181 channel
tuner as well so it can be used as a normal TV or as a stand-alone display. It is a model 15MF400T and sells
for 200-230 dollars at outlets like Office Depot, Best Buy, etc. Light weight and attractive. I don't have any
connection to the product or stores, I just thought it was a good adjunct for the HYDRA output signal display.

Fred2

fred2

Still not successful with VGA demo. I get "Out of Range" message when I try to display the demos. Some
of them show nothing at all. Is there some location in the driver where I can fiddle with the frequency output?

The A/V signals are still split with the first display on the immediate left about 3/4 in of the display page, a gap,
then the first 1/4 of the display page. Changing the Mode constant from 0000 to 0001 corrects the problem
but the display is smaller.

fred2

JT Cook

I don't beleive any of the demo programs used the VGA only TV.·I·tried playing with·the·VGA drivers and I couldn't get them to work. The only VGA programs I have been able to get to work are the·newer terminal drivers that Chip wrote a few months back. The only thing·is·you may have to change the pin (expletive)ignements and·also change the crystal clock·value.

Also digital TVs can be kind of funky, but the timing on most of the demos should be correct. I tried X Racer on a couple digital TV and it works well, but ball buster loses color on one and rolls the screen on another. Also on digital TVs there are sometimes different video mode settings that will crop sections of the screen and what not. I would recommend trying to hook up another video game system or DVD player to it to see if does the same thing.

fred2

Thanks for the response. I had used my Olevia 32 inch LCD for the introductory test programs when I first got
the HYDRA and they worked great on that one. However, it is in my bedroom, way far from my studio where
I am working on the HDRA, so I can't use that one for A/V output. I have tried the VGA output on a stand-alone
VGA monitor, but I only get an "Out of Range" message on certain programs and no activity at all on others.

I am trying the new TV/MONITOR I just bought right now. It is a TV that can be used as a monitor with A/V
inputs, VGA input, S-Video input, etc., functionally equivalent to a stand-alone LCD monitor. But I have the
same reaction on that one -- the "Out of Range" message also.

The A/V display is out of sync with a portion of the display on the left and and a portion on the right. I tried
different variables but the only thing that got it looking right was changing the mode value to 1. Any other
changes brought an error message. However, the mode=1 did get a complet picture that looked proper.

What VGA program did you get to work? And where can I get it? I have tried all the VGA programs in the
HYDRA package and no success there.

What I would like at the moment is a text program on VGA with maximum characters so I can start some
development on a text program with some graphics later on.

Let me know which VGA program you were succesful with.

Fred2

JT Cook

The VGA driver I used is here

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=587354

It does need to be modified because this is for the demo board(pin arrangements and crystal timer).

fred2

Thanks, again!

I will try both this afternoon.· With all the great help in this forum, I am making
good progress!!

I will post my progress later tonight....

Fred2
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