My suggestion for documentation
Graham Stabler
Posts: 2,507
The propeller manual provides the hard documentation required for the propeller.
The examples provide code you can look at, some are better commented than others.
But I hope that no one would deny that it would make a beginner's life much easier if someone was to sit down with them and run through the code, and before that the IDE.
"here's the main program, at the top we just set up the clock, we are using a 5Mhz crystal so we multiply by 16 to get 80Mhz, then we define the hub variables that are global to all the cogs. Then we define a keyboard object called kb, look you can find the object here, its called keyboard.spin and look when you press this you see the documentation. So the first thing we do it start a cog for this object ........"
You get the picture.
There are users of the propeller all over the world so although conventions and the like are cool they are only cool for a small percentage. Video is the future, it doesn't have to be live and it doesn't have to take much longer than sitting down with someone.
Check out this software:
http://www.techsmith.com/snagit.asp?CMP=KgoogleSgen82tm
Its $40 and can do screen capture with audio, spend $250 and you get camtasia which allows you to produce flash files and also add annotation and the like.
A propeller guru sits down for an hour and decides what they are going to say and then rambles for 15min, a voila you have the missing link in the documentation, the overview, the program flow and the reduction in fear factor that so many beginners need.
I tried making one of these videos myself but I'm only just past a beginner myself and kept messing it up, so I beg of you Parallax, give it some thought. Its cost effective and very very cool. You can host the video on youtube as one option to alleviate that problem, you can have 10min videos up to 120mB long for free, as many as you like.
Graham
The examples provide code you can look at, some are better commented than others.
But I hope that no one would deny that it would make a beginner's life much easier if someone was to sit down with them and run through the code, and before that the IDE.
"here's the main program, at the top we just set up the clock, we are using a 5Mhz crystal so we multiply by 16 to get 80Mhz, then we define the hub variables that are global to all the cogs. Then we define a keyboard object called kb, look you can find the object here, its called keyboard.spin and look when you press this you see the documentation. So the first thing we do it start a cog for this object ........"
You get the picture.
There are users of the propeller all over the world so although conventions and the like are cool they are only cool for a small percentage. Video is the future, it doesn't have to be live and it doesn't have to take much longer than sitting down with someone.
Check out this software:
http://www.techsmith.com/snagit.asp?CMP=KgoogleSgen82tm
Its $40 and can do screen capture with audio, spend $250 and you get camtasia which allows you to produce flash files and also add annotation and the like.
A propeller guru sits down for an hour and decides what they are going to say and then rambles for 15min, a voila you have the missing link in the documentation, the overview, the program flow and the reduction in fear factor that so many beginners need.
I tried making one of these videos myself but I'm only just past a beginner myself and kept messing it up, so I beg of you Parallax, give it some thought. Its cost effective and very very cool. You can host the video on youtube as one option to alleviate that problem, you can have 10min videos up to 120mB long for free, as many as you like.
Graham
Comments
That's good. I like that. There are lots of new tools out there, and some might make things easier for us slower ones.
Regards.
Alberto.
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~~B
I have to agree with you Guys
This might make things easier for us slower ones and would also help everyone else
I would really like to see this happen I think this is a real good·
I would be all·
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··Thanks for any·
Sam
Post Edited (sam_sam_sam) : 1/8/2007 3:23:23 AM GMT
Graham
If I had more time, I'd offer to do a video manual, but I don't any extra time these days. However, I'd be willing to post the large files on my website. I have a ton of space and bandwidth.
Jim Fouch
(especially since most web video is not closed captioned). Plus, there's nothing like a set of HTML pages and images
that can be kept up-to-date; it's hard to edit a video when a mistake is found, or a new version of the chip comes out.
Finally, a set of simple web tutorials I can download and store on my hard disk; a set of video tutorials would almost
certainly be deleted for space reasons and not on the disk right when I needed them the most.
It is unfortunate that not everyone could enjoy them because of hearing or bandwidth issues but I don't really see that as a reason not to do them at all. This would be just another thing to help, it would not be obligatory nor would it preclude text based tutorials.
As far as hard drive space goes, well the files do not have to be that large and besides there are things called writable CD-ROMS, these are not expensive and neither are the writers these days.
These are my inspiration for suggesting this:
http://www.machsupport.com/videos.htm
Average file size is about 40mB, remember that the file size will also depend on compression codecs used etc, running the PC in a lower res mode than normal also makes a massive difference.
Graham
I hope that every one can agree with some type of format so this could be done
·I for one would really like to see this happen
I know that it will be alot of work but
·I think that when it is all said and done it will help alot of people that·look and watch·this fourm to learn·and get
·I know i sure have learn alot of thing reading the forums but to do·Video based tutorials i know that i would get alot more out of it
because i could keep watching it until i understood tutorials and what it was trying to teach me
I hope that everone can understand what i am getting at
And I know that these Guys would be happy to .......
I would be all·
I would like to THANK ANY ONE, (the one's that are very good at CODING)·that·are willing to give of·their time and willing to help us newbe to learn
more with Video based tutorials we would be all·
So at some point we do not have to ask how to this and how to·that
This is just my two cent's worth which may not mean much
I am sorry for all of the Emoticons· but this is how i feel about this
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··Thanks for any·
Sam
Post Edited (sam_sam_sam) : 1/9/2007 3:26:42 AM GMT
This is put together very well and·I learn alot from just watching that video on Mach3 Software and Setup
http://www.machsupport.com/videos.htm
Something like this would be GREAT way·for learning the Propeller and of the Basic Stamps
Thanks for sharing that· with us
·
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··Thanks for any·
Sam
Post Edited (sam_sam_sam) : 1/9/2007 4:46:44 AM GMT
The point is to make this very little work, it doesn't have to be a perfect corporate style production to be useful, keep it casual and fun.
Graham
I couldn't agree more with what your are saying
One thing that I would add is to Explane the Examples and how it
Works and what Part of the Code Dose What
I know this might be alot to ask for
I know that this helps me to understand how to use the Code given in the
Examples,........ This helps me alot
These are my thought and ideas on subject..............
May not mean much ......just my 2........cents worth
I would like to Thank Any One that has the time and willing put this together for
the Newbe and all of us that are having a hard time understanding the code need to put these Projects and to together to LEARN Something and to KEEP it FUN
MANY THANKS FROM ME TO YOU FOR TAKE YOUR TIME TO DO THIS
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··Thanks for any·
Sam
Go For It!
Oldbitcollector
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The comments and code above are proof that a million monkeys with a million propeller chips *could* write Shakespeare!
Nice idea. Would help a lot.
Tony
Hard Disk space shouldn't be that much of a concern. I can fit 22 hrs worth on two CDs with no loss in quality. Generally for screen captured tutorials, they compress really well because very little information changes on screen. I don't know what it takes to get close captioning but that is very helpful too - to read along.
I don't like powerpoint slides. Mainly because they never seem to play quite right on my Mac.
Almost as good would be a Podcast. A 15 minute (or more) show every week discussing the Propeller would have at least one listener. All you need is a couple people interested in talking about stuff and answering listener submitted questions. Then of course there is the video Podcast...
If I knew what I was talking about I would do it. No wait, if I knew what I was doing AND someone would join me, then I would do it.
i agree that documentation can be improved a lot
but i'm not sure if video is the best way for such a complexe thing like propeller with IDE
i've used a few online-videos to learn from them. The video was showing 20-30 click-steps and details
I had to start them a again and again to learn to remember the sequence of the clicks and where to fill in what
even rewind them back and ahead is not pretty comfortable
i would prefer a sequence of screenshots showing it step by step
Does anybody know about a authoring-tool that can do that?
you start some kind of a recording-mode
then start klicking
this tool should be able to recognize and record the window-name, menu-name, menu-item-names
activated by a hotkey making keyboard-logging for keyboard-entries
and then creating a raw-text with the screenshots like
click on menu "File" -"open" (it should be able to get the words "file", "open" by itself)
next appears a window called "...." (Screenshot)
click on "Button" .... (MiniScreen-shot of this button)
or if this is not possible by mouse zoomed and moved window to adjust window around the button or what ever
maybe another possability would be making screenshots INKLUDING the mouse-arrow ! and 3 different symbols for click/doubleclick/rightklick
everytime you click while a hotkey is holded down.
With quick switching to fill in explaining text by keyboard or
by speaking into a microphone using speech-recognition
If there is a video-format where you can implement as much automatic-stops as you want this would be good
the author inserts a stop at every place where it might be senseful and you can go on just by pressing space-bar, page-down or F12
go back or ahead n stops by pressing page-up/down
could somebody post you-tube links with a REAL GOOD demo-video showing all possabilities produced by one of these videotools ?
or other links showing demos of other authering tools
greetings
Stefan
it would be possible to have the Propeller run a demo ... with mouse clicks... we could even have singing monks do the narration[noparse]:)[/noparse]
There is no part of using the propeller that needs a lot of button clicks, the videos would not be to teach the IDE as there is really nothing much to teach.
Its just a way of comunicating how a program works as it is easy to indicate the flow from the main program to various objects, a way of pointing things out in a logical order. The idea is not to create learn to program the propeller videos but show the framework of programs as that is often the hardest part to understand by just looking at the source code or manual.
The most important aspect would actually be the voice that goes with the video, see my first post for my written example.
Graham
Videos are seductive wastes of time for both passive watchers and active filmmakers. Just because its free (youtube) does it mean that it is worthwhile.
On the other hand, I did like the video of the prop robot that had a pid rangefinder routine a lot, particularly in comparison. I liked the thought of Graham's ersatz 3d printer zipping back and forth although the picture started out showing what I hoped was a boob and then became a helicopter's background tree instead. That vid went long though -- I've seen printheads before. It does stand as a symbol of Graham's hack, but not as an self-instructional tool for repurposing an old printer. (Actually, G, I do want to see the indoor helicoptor fly. I am green with envy. Jealous, even.)
Fred
Personally I have found it extremely helpful to be shown the ropes by someone by simply looking over their shoulder while they run through some features of a piece of software or hardware, once I have the basic idea I'm more than happy to look up specific details. That is what this is about, a confidence giving overview.
I'll probably have to make a video myself for people to understand although I thought the link to the mach support website might have explained my point.
Graham
OK. As long as you include the helicopter.
Fred
As one the doesn't read that well, I would definitely welcome any video tutorials. I learn from video more than the written word, it seams.
Maybe because I was brought up watching a lot of TV, and I went to public school, but I seem to learn faster from videos than from reading.
Every time I see a video posting of anything on the propeller, I watch it. Unfortunately, I didn't get to see all of BTX's videos before he pulled them.
Excellent idea Graham,
Doug
If anybody wants to see some Camtasia's for teaching programming, here are some ad-hoc videos put together for Delphi: blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges/articles/26687.aspx
Just imagine Spin & IDE, and it should give an idea of the possibilities.
As for video quality, the thing to do is to record them in an uncompressed formaty, and then use whatever third-party codec that you want for compression. Done this way, you can produce very high quality videos by choosing the most appropriate format.
to make your intention clear
first step could be to rename the title of the thread to the keywords of the purpose of the videos
these keywords sould be chosen very carefully to avoid misunderstanding
Stefan
And although I defend my idea for a basic video podcast showing some basics and over views I do think it is possible to do full tutorials if they are done correctly, sound is a must and they should be rich with explanation not a series of button clicks. Those who don't like video would just not use them.
Graham