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Stupid Question about wire. — Parallax Forums

Stupid Question about wire.

Special_KSpecial_K Posts: 162
edited 2007-01-05 02:32 in General Discussion
I have been using the inner wire from cat 5 cable (Ethernet cable). It was fine when I was using it with breadboard robot projects. However I am now building a new robot not using a breadboard and I am finding the wire stiff and sometimes bending the wire will break the solder joint. I brought some wire from radio shack (I think it was) 40 feet of 22-gauge wire. It was even thicker and less forgiving. Does anyone know what gauge wire I should be using.
I have used some very nice none solid core wire from broken 9 volt battery connections but I do not know where to get this type of wire or what gauge it would be.

Comments

  • steve_bsteve_b Posts: 1,563
    edited 2006-12-31 14:17
    You CAN get 'braided' network cable.
    It's typically used in short patch cords that are expected to be plug/unplugged and bent often enough that normal solid core would break....however, who wants to pay ~$20 for a 6foot section of cable that you're going to hack apart. (and the packages don't usually tell you they're braided/solid core).

    What you should really know is the amperage you're sending down the wire....that would really be the factor in the gauge of wire. I'd go for 26awg or something!

    not sure

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    ·

    Steve

    "Inside each and every one of us is our one, true authentic swing. Something we was born with. Something that's ours and ours alone. Something that can't be learned... something that's got to be remembered."
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2006-12-31 14:51
    What you want to use in applications where there'll be bending and twisting is STRANDED wire.··#22, #24.· If you need a bigger gauge then use two wires.
  • Steve JoblinSteve Joblin Posts: 784
    edited 2006-12-31 15:12
    Assuming that you are just working with low voltage elecronics, wire-wrap wire can be a nice choice... it is very strong. It is easy to remove the insulation and the insulation does not "melt and shrink" when you solder the wire. the wire is very thin and easy to twist around components to hold it in place while you are soldering.

    Post Edited (Steve Joblin) : 12/31/2006 3:41:38 PM GMT
  • Dennis FerronDennis Ferron Posts: 480
    edited 2006-12-31 18:41
    Also, in any situation where vibration is present, make sure that your solder joint never bears the load of a vibrating wire. When the wire shakes, all motion will cease at the point where the wire meets the solder joint, so it will have to flex in that small section when it shakes. This causes metal fatigue and the wire will break off at exactly that point. To stop this from happening, use some other method like hot glue or (preferably) a small zip tie to secure wires down at points where they have the insulation on them.

    And use stranded wire whenever possible if using solder. My rule of thumb is, I use stranded wire on soldered projects, and solid wire only on breadboards - but if the wire is 1 inch or less, it is fine to use the more convenient solid wire on soldered projects, because the wire is not going to weigh enough to cause vibration. You don't have to secure the wire down with zip ties or glue if it is this short. Long wires should always be stranded so they can flex without breaking, and secured at all possible points.
  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2006-12-31 18:53
    If you're going to use "hot glue" for securing wires, I'd suggest going with Acetic Acid Free Silicone adhesive instead (if possible). This is more flexible, and will help dampen vibrations.

    If you don't use the Acetic Acid Free stuff, you may have problems with corrosion of some of the electrical connections, unless you can "fully cure" the adhesive in a high circulation environment.

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    John R.

    8 + 8 = 10
  • steve_bsteve_b Posts: 1,563
    edited 2007-01-01 02:25
    I like wire-wrap for prototyping, but when you are removing the insulation you can easily score the wire and end up with it breaking. It's solid core but still flexible enough to work with.
    You can easily break wire wrap by pulling/stretching it so use it where it works best!

    Steve Joblin said...
    Assuming that you are just working with low voltage elecronics, wire-wrap wire can be a nice choice... it is very strong. It is easy to remove the insulation and the insulation does not "melt and shrink" when you solder the wire. the wire is very thin and easy to twist around components to hold it in place while you are soldering.
    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    ·

    Steve

    "Inside each and every one of us is our one, true authentic swing. Something we was born with. Something that's ours and ours alone. Something that can't be learned... something that's got to be remembered."
  • Dennis FerronDennis Ferron Posts: 480
    edited 2007-01-01 20:23
    Oh I don't mean hot glue the wire to the board, I mean hot glue the middle insulated section of long wires to something secure. Hot glue on a circuit board is not good because it will flow if you end up needing to resolder something near it, and it will be difficult to scrape off to resolder anything under it.
  • Special_KSpecial_K Posts: 162
    edited 2007-01-02 00:32
    Wow. Thanks for all the input. This is really what makes me love the Parallax forums.
    First answer the power supple for the robot is going to be a 9V battery. After some more research I will be changing it to a NiCad or Li-ion whatever will give me the smallest size (trying to make this bot as small as possible.)
    is this the type of wire you are talking about Steve
    www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=22550

    I looked all over the Jameco site and it looks like all of the wire-wrap wire that they sell is solid core. Do you have a link to some that is STRANDED
    would this work
    www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=126076
    if not does anyone have a link to the the think stranded wire they are talking about.

    As for hold. After the connections have been tested on the protoboard and all parts laid out I put some 5 min epoxy on the back. It makes it a pain if I have to try and go back but it holds everything in place.

    Post Edited (Special_K) : 1/2/2007 12:36:49 AM GMT
  • Dennis FerronDennis Ferron Posts: 480
    edited 2007-01-02 09:44
    Maybe it's just me but I've never had good experiences with Li-ion in projects - they're too finicky about charging and physically fragile. Last year I tried to make the smallest robot I could, and I built it around a Li-ion cordless phone battery. The robot fell off a coffee table (only a 2 foot drop) and the battery swelled up very quickly. The rectangular battery became round as an orange and it's a wonder it didn't explode. Since the battery also formed the chassis of the robot, there was no way to remove it from the robot. Luckily I was eventually able to pry the electronics and sensors off the battery.

    I've since rebuilt the robot around a Radio Shack 4 AAA battery case with battery cover and switch. The robot is wider now but not as tall (it had been a big Li-ion battery) and runs just fine on rechargable Ni-MH AAA batteries. I can remove the batteries and charge them in a regular battery charger, and best of all, I can replace the batteries when they wear out, without losing the robot.

    The lesson I learned was that it's much better to have your robot able to use commonly available AA, AAA or 9V batteries than a proprietary rechargeable, and to make the batteries accessible.

    Also, I thought that I needed the 7.4 volt Li-ion in order to have enough voltage to go through a 7805 and downregulate it to 5V. Not necessarily. The Basic Stamp in the new AAA version of my robot runs quite happily on an unregulated 4.8 Ni-MH battery supply, and if you can use a lower voltage battery that means a smaller battery for the same current rating. 4 AAA's works because 4.8 volts is close enough to 5 volts to not matter, and a fully charged battery is slightly above rated voltage anyhow.
  • Special_KSpecial_K Posts: 162
    edited 2007-01-03 05:25
    still working on this with out much luck and do not want to order the wrong thing again,
    anyone have a part number or web link to a site... I really want the thickness and flexibility of the a standard 9v connector wire.
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2007-01-03 12:56
    Special K said...
    I really want the thickness and flexibility of the a standard 9v connector wire.
    Then all you need is to get #24 stranded -- that's it.

    Post Edit:
    Special K said...
    ...just got some wrapping wire 30 gauge from radio shack
    · Non sequitur

    Post Edited (PJ Allen) : 1/3/2007 11:11:47 PM GMT
  • Special_KSpecial_K Posts: 162
    edited 2007-01-03 18:27
    just got some wrapping wire 30 gauge from radio shack part number 278-503. man is it thin. I will see how soldering goes tonight
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2007-01-03 18:47
    My recommendation for board-to-board or board-to-anything-else wiring is not to terminate with a soldered joint. Use a crimp-style header connector with stranded wire instead. Even if you immobilize the wires, vibration at the hard boundary between the solder and the wire strands will eventually lead to failure.

    -Phil
  • Special_KSpecial_K Posts: 162
    edited 2007-01-04 06:09
    Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) thanks for the info. This bot is really to see how small I can make one. As I build it I am learning how to make up a PCB so the final one will be rock solid.
    to all that posted thanks for your help.... I am going to order the #24 gauge stranded from Jameco, but for right now the wrapping wire is working out very well.
  • Steve JoblinSteve Joblin Posts: 784
    edited 2007-01-04 16:36
    Special_K... did you buy the wire wrapping tool as well? even if you don't use the wire wrapping tool to wrap the wires, it comes with a very nice little wire stripper inside the handle... it is perfect for stripping the insulation without nicking the wire...

    http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103243&cp=&origkw=wire+wrapping+tool&kw=wire+wrapping+tool&parentPage=search


    Model: 276-1570 Catalog #: 276-1570
  • Special_KSpecial_K Posts: 162
    edited 2007-01-05 02:32
    wow it works amazing well .... thanks for the info Steve
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