NEWBIE, looking for a starting place .......

Frankfern123

Hi everyone and thanks for your help in advance, I am new to this but not new to electronics being I have a degree from De'Vry I recieved back in 1988.

What I'm looking for is a place to start learning all I can about these devices and especially how to program them. I have been in the automotive performance aftermarket for many years and I now want to start adding my own electronic controls to the electro-mechanical hardware items I've been desinging for others for so many years.

I am completely new to stamps on the design and programming end. My goal is to use stamps for creating various "Black Boxes" to contol my systems with a simple GUI for the end user to set them up for thier applications. I have a myriad of designs that I have kept to myself and I now want to get them out there.

So in other words talk to me like a 2 year old in where I start to where I finish.

Thank you very much and I cant wait to get this ball rolling, or tires smoking·in my case ..

PJAllen

Go to the Parallax site www.parallax.com

Then go to the Downloads section and start... Downloading.

Frankfern123

Been there, but I still dont have a clue, I guess my big question is what is PBASIC and how do I learn it from a standing start. Unltimately what do I use to create a GUI for end users to change the operating parameters to suit thier applications.

Must of my designs have a stepper motor in them to control various fluid functions and pressures based off transducer feedback signals in Vac/Boost.

PJAllen

Download the PBASIC IDE (programming software), here:

http://www.parallax.com/html_pages/downloads/software/software_basic_stamp.asp

and "BASIC Stamp Syntax and Reference Manual Version 2.2", here:
http://www.parallax.com/html_pages/downloads/basicstamps/documentation_basic_stamp.asp
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Frankfern123

Awesome, I couldnt find this for some reason, I guess I didnt know where to look. Which one has info on the GUI, Thanks again .......

Kevin Wood

This flowchart should give you some ideas on what to look at:

www.parallax.com/html_pages/edu/curriculum/flow.asp


All of the manuals in the chart are downloadable.

PJAllen

GUI ?· You mean maybe an LCD?

Frankfern123

Thanks for that last link, this is what I needed.

As for the GUI, what I'll ultimately need is a GUI - (Graphical User Interface) or better known as a windows based program that the end buyer/user will be able to load into a laptop or PC to reprogram my devices through a USB or Serial cable to suit thier needs off a set of predesigned parameters built into the software. very simple if you know what your doing I'm sure, but not for me at the moment.

As an example, a Holley Pro-Jection 4 fuel injection system uses this technology to run an aftermarket fuel injection system on nearly any type of internal combustion gasoline fueled engine. Holley has a Windows based program (GUI) for the end user to set up all the parameters of thier engine. This is what I'm trying to achieve with my devices but they are not nearly as advanced as the Holley or similar systems out there. My designs are all for correcting specific issues and problems that come about with the supporting devices used in this industry that interface with the Holley style systems and translate that information in a "make it work" environment.

Frankfern123

Sorry, I called it a Pro-Jection System, It's actually now known as the Commander Series

Here's a link to one of thier more popular models.

http://www.holley.com/950-23S.asp

Paul Baker

Are you looking for the stamp to do the GUI as well, or do you plan on having a Windows front end with the stamp doing the interfacing with hardware?

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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer

Parallax, Inc.

Unsoundcode

Hi Frankfern, I think you should begin by seeing which of the Parallax processors suits your needs, I would think if you require speed and or a considerable amount of processing a SX would suffice. Once you have your processor you can program and bench test with the Parallax software, it's not too difficult and there is plenty of help in these forums. There are many options for an end user·GUI, Visual Basic is my preference but there is also Stamp Plot Pro (free download from the Parallax sight) Real Basic and more, but these can easily be added after you have perfected your processor program code if all you need is to rewrite a few EEPROM locations.

Jeff T.

Frankfern123

RE: P.Baker - Windows as the front end and the stamp to operate withing the user selected operating parameters based off the preloaded range maps.

RE: Unsoundcode - I believe your right about the SX series, speed is important and I want something with a decent amount of memory, I believe that the best way to go is with a fairly universal control unit as the base so I can control a variety of devices based off the software loaded into it.


To be honest with you, I'm probably better off hiring someone to do this for me based off my parameters, maybe even in the form as a royalty agreement per item sale.

I just dont know yet, anyone have any suggestions, anyone interested ????

Thanks, Frank Fern ..........

Frankfern123

My personal email is frankfern123@yahoo.com if they want to contact me in private ........

Thanks again ........

Paul Baker

If you are considering the SX, you should also consider the Propeller. The main advantage to the Propeller is it can do it's own GUI (though it's not drag and drop as windows GUI's, in exchange you significantly decrease the cost of the system, and it reduces the number of environments you need to learn from 2 to 1). For the novice using 8 processors where each has it's own sub-function is a little more intuitive than writing interrupt routines. Some of the people here would disagree with that statement, but they are coming from many years of experience writing interrupt service routines.

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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer

Parallax, Inc.

Frankfern123

I'd like to speak with you personally if at all possible. I'm very serious about this and you have really intrigued me with this last bit of info. I'm available now if maybe we can talk on the phone.

email me at frankfern123@yahoo.com and I'll respond with my tel# if your so interested. I need to get this up and running by racing season opening this comming spring 2007 so time is an issue for me.

I have spoken with tech support at parallax a few times and they have helped answer some questions, but not in the detail I really need due to time constraints. i promise that I'll make it brief.

Thank you ..........

Mike Green

I would ditto Paul's comments. Keep in mind that the Propeller can do its own GUI with only a few passive components interfacing to a standard PS/2 keyboard and video monitor (TV set). It can hold very large programs, easily thousands of lines of source code. Program development currently requires a PC.

Paul Baker

Frank,
We can talk, however my plate will be full through your deadline. Unfortunately, since the Propeller is so new, independent contractors which are skilled with it are a precious commodity and most are involved in projects. I'll talk with you tomorrow during business hours.

PS You can place an open call in this forum, but the last open call for a Propeller systems designer about a month ago was never filled.

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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer

Parallax, Inc.

Post Edited (Paul Baker (Parallax)) : 12/11/2006 12:01:06 AM GMT

Frankfern123

I appreciate that Paul, and Thank You very much. From what you and Mr. green have said the propellor is the way to go.

I'm a little confused though, Mr. Green states that I only need a keyboard and video source, if thats true then this opens up a whole new world to me for on-board monitering systems in real time ................

Paul Baker

Yes it does, what the Propeller is capable of is actually quite astonishing, especially considering there is relatively little dedicated hardware which is the way·all competing archictures do things·(If it does VGA, it has specialized VGA hardware to do it. The Propeller does it all in software which make is highly configurable).

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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer

Parallax, Inc.

T Chap

Frank, another suggestion if you chose not to try to use the Propeller TV graphics, I'd highly recommend Realbasic as your interface that talks to the Propeller via USB2serial. Realbasic is fairly easy to learn, there is a great forum for it, in addition to the Propeller forum which can asnwer almost any question. If you have to learn something from scratch anyway, do it with the Propeller. I can provide you a simple app for PC or Mac to do some testing via serial. On a computer you can create much better graphics for the UI if aesthetics is a concern.

Frankfern123

Unfortunately in my business, aesthetics has become as important as performance with the current crop of Sport Compact/Import Tuners. My product line crosses all platforms and is geared for all levels of performance, but in reality the ratio of real racers versus boulevard cruisers whom use them is 50 - 1 towards the cruisers. thats where the asthetics come in. It has to be pretty ............

I'd like some more info on your suggestion, I need to look at all the options before I commit myself to either learing this myself or employig someone to do it for me.

Thanks again ......

PS, this is an open call for someone to possibly fill that position.

Thanks Again ........

T Chap

With Realbasic you can output your application as OS X, Windows, and Linux. Each license is $100. There is a pro version for $500 that will build all versions at once. If you only have the standard version, you can output only the platform that you paid for, but, you can output a 5 minute demo of the other two. The Realbasic master file is read by all platforms, so you could for example, buy a Mac license for $100, and buy the PC version for $100, then develop your application on either platform, and load the same file on the other platform and build that version from there. There are subtle differences with each version, and in most cases it will compensate automatically to OS differences(usually cosmetic stuff). In other cases you may have to make small changes between various platforms.

I would suggest you get a Propstick or other starter kit, learn how to turn on and off an LED, and go from there. With a concerted effort, you'll have a good amount of fundamentals down within weeks, and then you can move on to adding sensors as needed, plus determining your GUI's look and function. The interconnect is very easy. You could get a Realbasic demo, and the turorials and training material is excellent. There aren't a lot of engineers making themselves available yet for the Prop. I suspesct that wil change in the near future as demand increases and experienced hardware and software guys get more up to speed. One of my goals in '07 is to have a group of people to hire/collaborate with on application designs and software development that incorporates the Propeller. This is primarily for my own projects, but I see it being available to otherprojects of interest as well.

To get a better response for your project, you may consider posting a more specific list of criteria, including what the UI does, what sensors are required, what the hardware entails. If there are trade secrets at stake, you don't have to state exactlly what the device does, but without some specifics, it is hard to say what would be involved(time/energy/money etc).

Paul Baker

Actually my suggestion on the Propeller front is to get the starter kit which is the demo board and manual. It's more expensive than the Propstick, but it comes with VGA, TV, audio, keyboard and mouse connections. It will get you up and running quickly and you can use it as a reference design when you design your own board.

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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer

Parallax, Inc.

Frankfern123

Well I'm certainly in the right place, now I just need to figure out what door to open. I like all I've heard and read so far on the Propeller System, especially since I'll be using the base unit to control an entire series of devices, some simple, some very complex.

Let me again Thank All of you that have responded to this post, all told so far is invaluable to me and I'll need lots more.

RE: ORIGINATOR, "to be more specific·on the project", I hate to say that my being vauge is by design, I unfortunatley cannot divulge too many details without fear of being pirated, it's happened before. Not exactly the best way to make new friends but I'm sure you can appreciate why.

I will say that I'm being very sincere when I offer my Thanks and hope you will bear with me during the process.

BTW: anyone who is interested in getting involved will be considered but only under a letter of disclosure, I'll also offer my mechanical design and manufacturing skills including my full CNC machine shop services for anyone interested in my looking into thier own designs, proposals and submissions without fear of that information being disclosed.

Thank you all again ...........

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steve_b

Certainly sounds like you need to go with a beginner kit.

The Propellor doesn't yet have the documentation/education material that the Stamps have. So you're learning curve may vary. However, you may find that the propellor is a great master processor and that you require other processors doing lesser roles....in this you might look at the stamp or SX...in either case I'd strongly suggest you look at the "What's a Microcontroller" book.

Seems like you are looking to the top of the stairs rather than the first step you have to attain.

Babysteps....from a consumer point of view, I'd hate to have to call for support on a device that the company doesn't know enough about.
Parallax has been in business for a long time and does great with support for their products, if you take the time to learn your product, hopefully you could provide the same level of support (no small task).

cheers

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Steve

"Inside each and every one of us is our one, true authentic swing. Something we was born with. Something that's ours and ours alone. Something that can't be learned... something that's got to be remembered."

Paul Baker

I spoke with him on the phone yesterday, and given the time constraints he's looking for a consultant. So any qualified people interested should contact him, he is on the east coast and would like to find someone within a day's driving if possible.

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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer

Parallax, Inc.

Frankfern123

Thank You Steve, those are some very good points, especially the latter on the issue of tech support. That is why I've made the decision to hire someone for this role but edjucate myself as best as possible. The latter point is exactly why I want a windows based GUI for the end user, something simple and concise without a mass of bells and whistles as used by most other programs of similar nature. The end user will simply begin the setup process by enabling various conditions based on thier parameters via a simple check box, the user will then have a series of pre-installed tables available by thier initial setup that will have to be altered to suit thier mechanical modifications.

Respective to tech support, the majority of the questions I see being fielded would be based on the end user's mechanical modifications and what parameters should be entered into the tables to achieve the desired end result. The end users interaction with the actual code will be nonexistant, all interaction with the microcroller will be through the GUI interface via Laptop/PC/Etc, where they cannot exceed the predefined limits of the tables. The fact that I'm and all with me are well versed on the operational ranges of the peripherals is all we really need for tech support issues. I realize that last statement may seem a little bold, but in reality if you were on my end you would understand why I can say that, unfortunatley I cant divulge the dynamics of it all without "giving up the farm" so to say.

The last issue of the PROP being too high a step is not an issue either, I have had a few conversations with interested parties and they have opened my eye's to what additional functions I can incorporate right way, prior I was only looking to "get it working" now I'm looking at getting what I actually wanted.

That's not to say I wont be posting a whole load of stupid questions, I never seem to run out of those.

Thanks again Steve .........

steve_b

Understanding that this is a business venture....it'd be nice to see your progress posted on here!
Possibly without divulging trade secrets!

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Steve

"Inside each and every one of us is our one, true authentic swing. Something we was born with. Something that's ours and ours alone. Something that can't be learned... something that's got to be remembered."