Spare pic16c57c chip.

Brad Bentley

Ive been collecting spare parts off of old outdated parts and circuit boards for some time now. Many ICs, d ram etc. Anything I can·soldier off·of old boards, or pluck from the black holders.

One of the·chips I snagged off of one of the·boards is a pic16c57c chip, which is the same chip as what the bs2 runs off of. It doesnt have a resonator, power regulator, eeprom or anything like that, its just an old pic chip. I was wondering tho, if its possible to wire to the BOE and run programs off this specific chip using the BOE microcontroller chip to expand the capabilties of what I already have.

Heres some other chips I have,·that would be sweet if I could get them·all run off pbasic if possible. even though highly unlikely

mcm6665al20 motorolla chip (54 of them) dynamic ram
hm4864p-3 chips (27of them) dynamic ram
intel p8088 (1) 8 bit hmos microprocessor
intel d8086-2 (1) 16 bit hmos microprocessor
Harris Semiconductor cdp6402ce (1) cmos universal asynchronous reciever transmitter
TMS 2764jl-25 (2) 64k nmos uv-eeprom
sgs z80 cpu (1) microprocessor
intel d2732a-2 (2) 32k uv erasable eeprom
fairchild semiconductor nm27c512qe150 (1) (64k x 8) cmos eeprom
AMD am2764-2dc (1) 64k nmos uv eeprom
IBM mk37050n-4 (1) 64k ROM
IBM mk36a73n-4 (1) 64k rom
IBM mk38036n-25 (1) 64k rom
intel d2764a-2 (1) nmos uv eeprom
texas instruments tbp24s10n (1) p rom
sony cxk5864mk-10L (1) 8,192 word x 8 bit cmos static ram
toshiba tc110g17af (1) cmos gate array


Anyone have any useful ideas on what to do with these? How can I connect any of these microcontrollers to the bs2?





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Gadgetman

Well...

The PIC can be used. I can't remember if that model needs a resonator(not all of them really needs it) and you'd have to program it in assembler, as it doesn't have the Parallax software burnt-in(it's what makes a BS2 into a BS2), but if you do manage to get it running, it could be used as a 'co-processor' and take over simple tasks.

You have a Z80 8bit microprocessor, which is a decent find, the motorola chips are 64Kbit RAMs (you need 8 of them, parallell, to be useful), and if you add an EPROM, a 4MHz Xtal, and a few simple ICs for memory selection, it should end up as a pretty decent 'SingleBoard Computer'
(And yes, it'll be way more powerful than your BS2. Remember, this chip was the heart of the CP/M generation computers and millions of home computers around the world... )

The nice thing with the Z80 is that it already has the circuitry for refreshing Dynamic RAM built-in, so that you can use that kind of RAM with ease.

The big problem is learning to program it...
that, and you'd need a UV-light and an EPROM programmer to get it going.
(you need to create a 'bootstrap program' which allows you to send a larger program to it, somehow. Whether it scans keys to let you type in a larger program, or reads it from a serial port, is up to you)

A good place to start learning about the Z80 would be Z80.info

The Intel 8088 and 8086 chips you can just bin, or push on eBay.
With your (I assume) limited electronics and programming experience there's nothing you'll be able to do with them. (They're not really suited for tinkering, either.)

As for the assorted ROMs...
We have:
ROM - Mask-programmed types. These had their programs burned in at the factory, and can't be reprogrammed. Unless you want to peek at the software inside, they're useless.
PROM - Programmable ROM. These are 'one-shots'... Program once, and if wrong, throw it away. As with ROMs, if you're not interested in the software on them, they're junk.
EPROM - Erasable, Programmable ROM. These have windows, and if exposed to the correct UB-light, the program will be cleared, making it ready to take a new program. These are useful, if you have the right tools.
EEPROM - Electrically Erasable, Programmable ROM. As with EPROMs, these can be erased, but these only needs the correct electric pulse to do so.
(you still need a programmer, though)

Your biggest problem is probably going to be the cost of an EPROM programmer.
(Expect to pay from $50 to $150 for a used one, even on eBay.)

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LoopyByteloose

Umm....
If you have to ask, probably no.

First of all, the dynamic RAM uses a lot of power. For example, the average PC has a 350watt power supply mainly to provide power to the harddisk AND THE DRAM. Refresh takes a lot of program logic.

ROMs, not EEPROMs are usually one shot affairs. {They have one program on them forever}

8088, 8086, and Z80 will most likely demand you forget about RISC {vonNeuman versus Harvard architecture}
You are on the wrong side of the computing world for PICs and SXes and BasicStamp.

UV-eeprom {a bit of an oxymoron; does it erase electrically or with UV or both [noparse][[/noparse]I don't think both are possible]}

Gate array maybe be a one shot programible too.

UART, maybe. This would be a great chip to study first.

Sony State RAM if it is good... maybe one fine day it will be useful.

I think the main point is that without knowledge all junk is junk.
Like I once saw a store sign, "We buy junk, and sell antiques."

The difference is in the historical expertise.

That word historical puts you at a disadvantage as you are not learning State of the Art, but History of the Art.

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···················· Tropical regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan

Gadgetman

Those DRAMs are 64Kbits, so doesn't draw a lot of power.

and the Z80 has all the needed refresh circuitry built-in. As long as the chips need a 7bit refresh address, all you need to do is connect the RFSH output to the DRAMs, and voila, a refresh cycle will happen during the 'instruction decode' cycle, when the Data and Address busses aren't used, anyway.

Of course, with 138 distinct commands, and nearly 800 variations of them,(There's quite a few addressing modes, and a whole lot of registers involved) it can be a bit overwhelming...

But I'm afraid that Kramer is right, you're better off tinkering with more modern chips if you want to learn something useful.

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Sarten-X

The UART should be usable with the stamp. Hook it up right, and you can use SERIN and SEROUT to communicate up to 8 bits of data between devices.

Sarten-X

The UART should be usable with the stamp. Hook it up right, and you can use SERIN and SEROUT to communicate up to 8 bits of data between devices.

Harrison.

The PIC16C57 is a OTP (one time programmable) chip. You won't be able to reprogram the chip unless you have the windowed version that can be erased with a UV eraser.

If you want a coprocessor of sorts then it would probably be cheaper and a better use of your time to look at the SX microcontrollers. The individual chips are cheap and the programmer isn't too expensive. The best thing is that Parallax has a free basic compiler for the SX line of chips.

Brad Bentley

Ill most likely hang on to them until I have the knowledge to crack their "codes". I downloaded all the datasheets for each, so i know what they do, and all their pinouts, after I read each datasheet (lots of pages there). Never used assembly language, so i have some learning to do there. I can make a cheap UV flash mechanism with a UV LED, just gotta find out the proper spectrum. The uv eeprom is pretty cool, underneath the stickers you can literally see the "brains". Its a project im dreaming about, if I could get them all to run together, even though they are old, it would make for a pretty powerful system. I actually took them out of 2 really old 1984 computers. I have many large processors from old computers, many cyrix m2 processors, ranging in size. The BS2 would be the basis for all my projects, as it is the most functional system with all the I/O pins. But I definitely would like to expand my bank of knowledge around this subject, so i will be doing alot of research on the "history". Right now the only thing i can think of would be like 1 BS2 controlling a series of BS2s, with programs in each separate bs2, so when that certain bs2 pin is high, it will light up the bs2 connected to that pin, and then you create subsystems within, but if I could do that with these microprocessor chips, that would have some benefits. YeaH i was wondering about that uart chip, as it was the only one I found, has many pins, so may be very useful when im sending and recieving data.

But right now, im drawing them for an art project. I have built the super human robot my work is called "living in the strands of technology" I will post picks of the finished art work later this week. Should be pretty interesting to see what you guys think. I plan on gettin the sx controller soon. Being a student funds are low, so I have to make the best of what I have. I pumped through the robotics book in about a weeks time, so im going back to the whats a microcontroller book, and finishing that up.