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Circuit Protection Help please — Parallax Forums

Circuit Protection Help please

Brian CarpenterBrian Carpenter Posts: 728
edited 2006-11-28 12:36 in General Discussion
I have a circuit that operates off 5v regulated wall power supply.· It is a unit that will be sold commercially.· my question is, how do i protect against someone plugging in a power supply greater than the 5v one supplied with the product.· There will mot be any internal regulators in my design, so i was wondering about·a fuse and a Zener diode.
See the attached pic.


Would i fuse it at 300 mah?

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It's Only A Stupid Question If You Have Not Googled It First!!

Comments

  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2006-11-26 23:11
    You've placed the Zener upside-down/backward, the cathode should go to positive and the anode to ground.· As you have it now, it'll conduct right away.

    You'll want the fuse to clear (open) before you exceed the maximum Zener current.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2006-11-26 23:15
    The zener would need to be connected in reverse of what your diagram shows (i.e. cathode on the +5V side). The fuse needs to be for more than your circuit draws, and the zener's reverse current rating needs to be higher still. (You don't want the zener to go before the fuse blows.) An alternative to a one-time fuse would be a PTC resettable polymer fuse. Also, if the required current is too high for the zener, you might consider an SCR crowbar circuit, like the one described here.

    -Phil
  • stamptrolstamptrol Posts: 1,731
    edited 2006-11-26 23:26
    As noted, get the zener flipped over the right way; technically it would then work. However, it will depend on a VERY closely regulated 5 volt supply. Otherwise, the zener will be conducting from time to time. Having said that, there are some very good regulated wall warts out there, but at a premium price.

    You could go with a 6 volt zener which would give you some leeway as to input voltage. Also, you also have to allow user access to change the fuse which raises the spectre of the user putting in a much larger fuse. You could use a self-resetting fuse which will clear and then reset after it cools down. Again, a cost issue.

    So, at the end of the day, isn't an on-board regulator just as cheap?

    Cheers,

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    Tom Sisk

    http://www.siskconsult.com
    ·
  • Brian CarpenterBrian Carpenter Posts: 728
    edited 2006-11-27 04:31
    Stamptrol, sure a regulator is best but i have alot of regulated 5 volt transformers and intended to use them on this project. 5volts in to a 5 volt regualtor wouldnt do the trick.

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    It's Only A Stupid Question If You Have Not Googled It First!!
  • Brian CarpenterBrian Carpenter Posts: 728
    edited 2006-11-27 04:36
    PhiPi, any suggestions on these PTC resettable polymer fuse. i have never used these.

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    It's Only A Stupid Question If You Have Not Googled It First!!
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2006-11-27 05:55
    Check DigiKey's website. Search on "PTC", then scan down under "Over Voltage / Over Current Devices", and click on "Thermistors". Then, under "Themistor Type", click "PTC". From there, you're on your own, since the best choice will depend on your design requirements. These devices are made by several different manufacturers and come in many different sizes and current ratings. Be sure to read the datasheets to help choose the right one.

    -Phil
  • kjennejohnkjennejohn Posts: 171
    edited 2006-11-28 07:26
    Hello.
    We use the Raychem Polyswitches at work all the time. They are readily available at Digikey in radial form and SMD.
    The trick to these is to understand the given current rating is the current this device FOLDS BACK TO. That is, the RXE030 (rated 300mA) is a device that will pinch off, not cut off, starting when the current reaches 600mA. And then it only goes down to 300mA. There is still some small voltage left. Just to complicate matters, it is all a matter of the heat generated by the current passing through it. If the current rises near instantly to the max, it will pinch off in less than a second, but not as fast a fuse link. If the current climbs slowly above its hold rating, it will eventually fold back, even if not at maximum, but will take several minutes to reach the trip point, then take a second or two to drop to mininum current. And this puppy gets HOT! You'll have to kill the power and give it a few minutes to cool down before its ready to run normally again. Also, it has some resistance all the time, which drops some portion of the power voltage. Look these up on DigiKey and check out the charts.
    The following online page has the RXE series data:

    http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T063/1499.pdf

    Only one part looks like it is designed to fold back at 300mA. It is way at the page bottom. If you want to view a picture of the part you will have to change the web address from 1499.pdf to 1500.pdf.
    So, these parts may be your answer, if you don't need fast, pinpoint current control, and can live with some small voltage drop.

    Good luck on your project,
    kenjj
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2006-11-28 12:36
    When one begins to look at fuses and such for protection, they are really there to protect the user from shock and fire hazard.

    It was pointed out to me that small value fuses [noparse][[/noparse]like 250ma] will actually cause a significant voltage drop that in itself can cause problems.

    In truth, the real protection of a microcomputer circuit is in a good balanced design. About the only exception to this truth is some hardware failsafe features to prevent you from pluging in wrong polarity and from hot plugging interfaces that cannot tolerate such.

    The area where the most damage is done is in assembly and on the breadboard. These places always allow you to get it wrong. I just had one of Gunther's Multiboards creating 13volts DC from 8 volts because inserted a diode in reverse and it appears I created a charge pump. [noparse][[/noparse]I bet that Gunther doesn't even know it is possible to do so.]

    So it really comes down to being a habitual double checker and slowing down what you are doing in order to check. In the beginning I would just plug something in and watch it smoke. Now, I check the power rails for voltage level and polarity before I fully populate my boards. Also, I now know that anything over 220ohms will somewhat protect a BasicStamp or SX-28 or Propeller I/O. So when I see a value below that, I ask myself is this in the right place?

    In sum, faultless design is a mental attitude of design and construction, not one special schematic. BTW, finding high current capacity zener diodes is not easy to do. While they may work in theory, the parts may not be available.

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    "If you want more fiber, eat the package.· Not enough?· Eat the manual."········
    ···················· Tropical regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
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