HYDRA: No video output

inaki

I am checking the first steps with the Hydra and have found a problem: I don't get any video output.

I am using a multi-standard TV set that accepts NTSC and PAL. It works well with Propeller Demo Board.

I understand by page 31 in the Hydra book that I should see a splash screen when turning on the board and that the game Parallaxroids is prerecorded in the board.

Well I can't get any video on the screen.

The leds and mouse light up when I·put·the board·ON.
I am using·my own·9V/800mA power supply.

Any help is welcome!



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AndreL

That's not good! You have the NTSC video cable plugged in real good, you have it powered up. Try seating the prop, give it a good press. Make sure the xtal above the prop didn't get loose, give it a good press, same with the eeprom to the upper left of the prop chip. The systems are loaded with parallaxaroids, a simple asteroids demo based on the parallax reference drivers, so that works on everything. Did you try downloading another game into the hydra as outlined in chapter 1? Or plugging in the game card (facing you), it has Ball Buster on it.

All the systems passed a thorough Q/A test and then is loaded with the game, tested again, and then shut down. So should work fine. And your multisystem tv should be fine with the signal.

Also, hit the reset swtich a bunch of times, make sure it isn't sticking at all, they are very new and could stick.

Lastly, give the unit a good blow with compressed air or something, maybe something got lodged in-between a pin(s).

And of course, make sure that power supply is DC 9V Tip +, ring -, an AC 9V supply might light the lights, but the system won't work.

Andre'

Post Edited (AndreL) : 11/21/2006 8:32:23 PM GMT

inaki

Thanks for your help.

Please note that I am using the same video cable and power supply with the Propeller Demo Board and it works well.

I have checked: the Propeller itself, the EEPROM, the reset button, the xtal. I have pressed them but they were already tight.

Result: No changes. No video output.

The 128K cartridge that contains the other demo should be aligned I/O PIN 0 (on the cartridge) with PIN 1 (on the board) ? To test it is it enough to put the board ON and it starts automatically ?

I have not tried yet to connect it to my PC.

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AndreL

Yes, just plug the game card in just like in the picture in the book page 27/31, facing you, the leds should turn on, hit reset, you should see ball buster. And or connect it to the PC, and try downloading a demo as outlined in the quick start materials in chapter 1 on page 30. And the video hardware is identical to the props, but for kicks try another tv as well, just to make sure something bizarre isn't happening.

However, this is very interesting, so let's see if we can figure it out [noparse]:)[/noparse]

And like I said, give the board a good blow, and hit that reset button a bunch of times, work it in good.

Andre'

inaki

I have plugged the 128 card and does not work. The led that is placed along the card slot lights up.
I have replaced the TV set connection with the miniature TV/LCD sold by Parallax. Idem: no video.

Now I have connected the USB cable and the Propeller Tool finds the Propeller in COM8.
I can upload and verify programs I had for Demo Board.

I am ready now to try a demo from the Hydra CD. Which one is best to try to see if it works ?

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inaki

I have tried HIADEMO by Collin Philips.
The video shows nothing but: a music comes out from the monitor, so it is working! At the same time the led D4 is flickering.
So the problem seems to be specific of the video out part.

One question: the VGA lever should be ON or OFF ?

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inaki

I have tried already several games from the DEMO folder in the Hydra CD. They compile and appear to work as I can hear the music and sound effects.

So definitely the problem is the video output.

Is there anything I can check on the board ?

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AndreL

The ENTIRE video circuit is composed of 4 resistors R15, R16, R17, R18 above the prop, to the left of the xtal, and a single wire to the YELLOW video out, then video out is grounded and that's it! there is nothing there really to go wrong since its the same as the prop demo board. The connections are:

P27 -> R15 (470 ohm) -> Video out ----> video Connector inner barrel (pin 2) nearest to "video" silkscreen on top side of PCB, also goes to test point J4 (antenna output).
P26 -> R16 (270 ohm) -> Video out
P25 -> R17 (560 ohm) -> Video out
P24 -> R18 (1.1K ohm) -> Video out

That's the whole circuit, so the only possible thing that could happen is there is a short between the video output pin and ground caused by some loose metal. So if you turn the board over and look under the video and audio connectors the pin closest to the front of the boards are the signal pins, the pins closest to the rear are the grounds (which we know are good). So take a close look at the signal pin going into the video pin of the connector is there some solder or debris in there causing a short to the ground plane?

For example, if you have an ohm meter, turn the system off, unplug the usb and power and check if there is a short between the two video connector pins, if there is then you know a little piece of metal lodged its way in the solder joint and the ground plane.

And the best demo to use is simply the asteroids demo like in the quick start, just use that since it uses reference drivers and displays on every TV known to man.

The sockets can be good hiding places for metal debris, so make sure you spray under everything with compressed air, and better yet if you have some contact cleaner wash, hit the board with that then hit it with compressed air.

I had a board that did the same thing, blew on it, pressed the chips in and it came alive. So hopefully, you just have some metal somewhere since it looks like the prop is ok, and its programming fine, etc.

Andre'

inaki

Do you mean that I should get continuity between: P27 and R15, P26 and R16, P25 and R17, P24 and R18 ?

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AndreL

Maybe its easier if you just look at the design, go into the HYDRA/designs directory on your CD and look at this file:

hydra_05_rev_a.gif

See the video circuit at the bottom of the schematic? So basically, you should have conntinuity from P27, P26. P25, P24 to R15, R16, R17, R18, then on the OTHER side of the resistors they all tie together (its a D/A) and then that is routed to the video connector's output. The idea here is we want to make sure all these things are connected and there is no short by some solder flash or something.

Andre'

inaki

Wait a minute! Should be there continuity between Antenna and the inner pin on Video OUT ?

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inaki

Antenna and video signal are not connected! The output of resistor R15 goes to Antenna but does not reach the video pin !

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AndreL

Yes, the closest one to it, right above the "video" label on the other side. The ground pin for the video is near the edge of the rear, this should have continuity to ground. The output pin, close to the J4 connector should have continuity to it. So either there is no continuity and somehow the solder joint went bad from parallax to you, OR some metal got under that connector or in the mask spacing around the solder joint, shorting the video out to ground. The trace for video out is right on top of the board, right from J4 you see it going under the connector if you look close.

So a quick test is to have the audio output into the TV, so we have GROUND now, pull the video lead out from the yellow socket on the hydra and touch the tip of it to J4, is video getting this far, do you see something on the screen? If so we know its inthat last trace, but of J4 is shorted toground then we know there is some metal debris under a pin or something.

Also, try rocking the video connector forward, its possible that someone mashed it in there so HARD that the shield cut right thru the video trace under it and shorted it to ground, but they would have had to KILL it putting it in.

But, we are close [noparse]:)[/noparse]

Andre'

inaki

Confirmed there is no continuity between Antenna and Video OUT.

The soldering in Antenna pin looks pretty bad (it has some sort of bubble on it). Should I resolder it ?

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AndreL

First tell me if there is a short between pin 1 the ground (near the edge of the board) and pin 2 the video out that SHOULD be connected to the antenna.

If no short and the video out is just cold, then yes resolder with flux and tighten it up. But, also, tell me did you do the test with video connector and touch it to the antenna lead and got video out on the screen?

We just want to make sure that the video connector shield didn't get smashed and is shorting the video line, and that there is no short from pin 1 to 2, or pin 2 to ground.

But, you got video with the AV cable yellow tip touching the antenna lead right? Looks all good?

Andre'

inaki

I do see something on the screen when I touch J4 with the video cable. It looks like a picture but distorted.

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inaki

There is NO short between outter and inner pins on the video connector. Inner pin is NOT connected to Antenna J4 pin.

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AndreL

So if you turn the board over and test J4 and the pin nearest to it, the inner pin, you get no continuity? Then that's it! That solder joint is just fragged. See if you can flux it and tighten it up and make it nice and shiny and maybe use a magnifying lens to see it really well. If worst comes to worst then you can run a piece of wire from the underside of J4 to the inner pin, but I don't think you will have to, just has to be a cold solder joint, it happens.

If you have a high rez camera and can take a pic of it before you solder, I would like to see it, since all the samples I have here are VERY nicely soldered, but sounds like you found it, just a weak solder joint on this unit.

I have a meeting for 30 mins, and will be back to see your progress [noparse]:)[/noparse]

Andre'

inaki

Well I have resoldered the Antenna pin. Now I get continuity between Antenna and Video OUT.

I get a picture on the screen this time, great, but it is totally distorted. I have checked it with my two TVs.
Anything else could be wrong ?

I have tested that video ground pin is connected to board ground.

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AndreL

Hmmm, shouldn't be distorted, you are running the asteroids demo? This uses reference drivers from parallax, not even our special ones that push the video spec to the limits, so asteroids should look perfect.

Are both these sets PAL/multisystem sets?

Can you send me a pic?

For kicks, try and replace the 10.000Mhz XTAL with another one if you have it. Sounds like you don't have ground potentially, another cold joint on the ground pin of that connector.

Andre'

CJ

have you tried loading one of the demos? to be sure you are not outputting broadcast video.

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Who says you have to have knowledge to use it?

I've killed a fly with my bare mind.

inaki

I got it !
The picture was distorted apparently because the xtal that was too loose! (by the way, I have found it easy to displace out of the socket)

Now I get a perfect picture! Great!

I am sorry I soldered the pin before you asked for a picture of the solder. It looked like there was too much tin on the solder, and with that aspect not too shiny tin that leaves a bad soldering. The other pins on the board look healthy.

Thank you for your excellent support !

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AndreL

Ok, there we go. Yes, EVERYONE remember the HYDRA parts are socketed so you can replace them and upgrade and especially overclock [noparse]:)[/noparse] So, when you get your hydra's make sure to give everything a good little push and blow.

Now, look the program JTC_xracer_010.spin, have the gamepad in and drool [noparse]:)[/noparse] A to accelerate B to brake!

Good luck!

Andre'