Is the BASIC2 for me?
stevels
Posts: 19
Basic STAMP Questions, sorry for the long winded email.· People said “just ask”, so here I go….
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I play with waste vegetable oil (WVO) . ·Not in a bad way, but I use it as fue for my car and bus, generate electricity with it· and am making a home heater to burn it for domestic heat.
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I am a database and web guy, with lots of computer background, lots of WVO experience. ·In fact, I just returned from the world’s luxury motor coach driving cross country entirely on the fat of America’s fast food chains. ·(www.liquidsolarpower.com)· I know enough about electronics to safetly wire a car stereo and jump start a dead truck... but I am willing to learn more!
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I have just recently discovered the world of micro controllers, and finally think I may have found a way to bridge the gap between my computer world and the purely mechanical world I also have been playing in.
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I have some basic questions that I am hoping people can help answer for me.
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My intention is to use the logic of a micro controller to help operate and maintain some of my experiments, including my garage based, WVO home generator and WVO home burner.
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I need a way to gather information from a number of different sensors, such as photo-resistive cells, thermcouplers, air pressure indicators, perhaps viscosity sensors, and so on, and then essentially turn on and off various high amperage electrical components based on a complex set of rules. ·The devices I will control will typically be everything from fluid solenoid valves, air valves, motors, compressors, 1000 watt heater elements and so on.
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My intention is to build a prototype for the pleasure of doing it, but with the possibility that if I stumble across any proprietary technology along the way, I may actually be able to develop a product.· Here are some of my initial questions:
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1)····· Is the BASIC STAMP an appropriate micro controller to be doing this with?· I have the lowest Basic2 model.· Should I consider a different onefor prototyping?
2)····· If BASIC is OK, are there less expensive, production model STAMP controllers available for less money?
3)····· Are there standard sensors that will be compatible with the pin ins of the BASIC stamp, and high amperage relays available to switch using the 5mV oputput from a stamp controller?
4)····· Is the BASIC language powerful enough for some fairly tricky logic? ·I have not programmed in basic since the Carter administration. ·I guess there is no event driven, object oriented language for these critters?
5)····· I thought that when people built stuff like this, all the complex logic was compiled down to an inexpensive ·custom made micro chip. ·Does the real world use programmable modules like the STAMP in production envrinments? or is this really for prototyping?
6)····· Is the 2K size limit a limiting factor in the power of this chip? ·If so, are there any other viable options?· My cell phone has 2GB RAM, 2K seems so..... 1977, doesn't it?
7)····· I would like to support a multi line, LCD display and have the controller allow somewhat of a user adjustable expereince, such as dynamicaly setting various temperature triggers for different events. ·Is this doable?
8)····· Do they make sensors that are compatible with the BASIC stamp? ·Where can I get them at a hobbyist’s budget?· Any good online places to buy say, a left nostril humidity sensor?
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That is it for now… I am sure I will have more.
·
Thanks so much !
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Stevels
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Expert in many fields, dumb as a stump with STAMP
·
I play with waste vegetable oil (WVO) . ·Not in a bad way, but I use it as fue for my car and bus, generate electricity with it· and am making a home heater to burn it for domestic heat.
·
I am a database and web guy, with lots of computer background, lots of WVO experience. ·In fact, I just returned from the world’s luxury motor coach driving cross country entirely on the fat of America’s fast food chains. ·(www.liquidsolarpower.com)· I know enough about electronics to safetly wire a car stereo and jump start a dead truck... but I am willing to learn more!
·
I have just recently discovered the world of micro controllers, and finally think I may have found a way to bridge the gap between my computer world and the purely mechanical world I also have been playing in.
·
I have some basic questions that I am hoping people can help answer for me.
·
My intention is to use the logic of a micro controller to help operate and maintain some of my experiments, including my garage based, WVO home generator and WVO home burner.
·
I need a way to gather information from a number of different sensors, such as photo-resistive cells, thermcouplers, air pressure indicators, perhaps viscosity sensors, and so on, and then essentially turn on and off various high amperage electrical components based on a complex set of rules. ·The devices I will control will typically be everything from fluid solenoid valves, air valves, motors, compressors, 1000 watt heater elements and so on.
·
My intention is to build a prototype for the pleasure of doing it, but with the possibility that if I stumble across any proprietary technology along the way, I may actually be able to develop a product.· Here are some of my initial questions:
·
1)····· Is the BASIC STAMP an appropriate micro controller to be doing this with?· I have the lowest Basic2 model.· Should I consider a different onefor prototyping?
2)····· If BASIC is OK, are there less expensive, production model STAMP controllers available for less money?
3)····· Are there standard sensors that will be compatible with the pin ins of the BASIC stamp, and high amperage relays available to switch using the 5mV oputput from a stamp controller?
4)····· Is the BASIC language powerful enough for some fairly tricky logic? ·I have not programmed in basic since the Carter administration. ·I guess there is no event driven, object oriented language for these critters?
5)····· I thought that when people built stuff like this, all the complex logic was compiled down to an inexpensive ·custom made micro chip. ·Does the real world use programmable modules like the STAMP in production envrinments? or is this really for prototyping?
6)····· Is the 2K size limit a limiting factor in the power of this chip? ·If so, are there any other viable options?· My cell phone has 2GB RAM, 2K seems so..... 1977, doesn't it?
7)····· I would like to support a multi line, LCD display and have the controller allow somewhat of a user adjustable expereince, such as dynamicaly setting various temperature triggers for different events. ·Is this doable?
8)····· Do they make sensors that are compatible with the BASIC stamp? ·Where can I get them at a hobbyist’s budget?· Any good online places to buy say, a left nostril humidity sensor?
·
That is it for now… I am sure I will have more.
·
Thanks so much !
·
Stevels
·
·
·
·
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Expert in many fields, dumb as a stump with STAMP
Comments
www.parallax.com/html_pages/resources/custapps/main.asp
If you can figure out a way to build your project with a BS2, it will do the job you ask of it. The thing that Parallax managed to do is make it relatively easy, especially for less technical people, to build complax systems. In addition to the projects listed above, take a look at the "Stamps in Class" books, which you can download for free. They will teach you techniques and applications that are applicable in "real-world" projects. Keep in mind that there is no such thing as an "inexpensive" custom-made microchip. Where would PCs be if every program had to be burned in silicon? Not $250 at Wal-mart!
As for which BS2, you'll need to choose one based on your needs & requirements. For cost saving, there are a couple of OEM models available, and at least on kit, if you don't mind soldering. You can also purchase OEM parts individually, which you could then implement into your own circuit design, say for mass production. Parallax keeps their customer info confidential, but they have stated often that people would be surprised where the Stamp can be found.
If you would like to take a step up from the Stamp, a good choice would be the SX chip. There are protoboards available for $10, and the Sx-Key programmer ($50) allows you to do in-circuit debugging in ASM. If you don't want the debugging, the Sx-Blitz is even less expensive ($30). There is also a Basic compiler (SX/B) freely available that is somewhat similar to PBasic syntax-wise. The SX chips (Sx28 or Sx48) are the processors used in all of the BS2 modules beyond the base model.
Since you are new to this technical area, I suggest contacting the big electronics parts suppliers, and ordering their print catalogs. Think Sears catalog at Christmas when you were a kid! They're usually free, and browsing through them will give you plenty of ideas to work with. Some of the suppliers are Digikey, Newark, Mouser, Jameco, Allied Electronics, JDR Microdevices, and a few others.
In addition to the Stamps in Class manuals, check out the Nuts & Volts downloads on the Parallax site. One other book that you might be interested in is called Physical Computing: Sensing and Controlling the Physical World with Computers, by Igoe & O'Sullivan. It deals with interfacing computers with various sensors via microcontrollers.
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·· I will try to answer your questions as best I can…
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1)················· This one is really dependant on the details of such connections, but probably.
2)················· The BASIC Stamp Module is built for Development and Education.· If you were to embed it into your design you could do it for under ~$15.00 per unit by using the OEM parts on your own board.
3)················· There are Solid State Relays as well as many other options for switching high-power loads.
4)················· Again, this would be dependant on the details, but anything that could be done with discreet logic can be done in code.
5)················· Yes, BASIC Stamps are used in production devices, although as mentioned in #2 they will often use OEM parts to build the module into their design to reduce cost.
6)················· This is almost like comparing the BASIC Stamp to a PC.· Even your phone, much like the PC has the overhead of an operating system as well as being a complex device, having to store pictures, sounds, phone contacts, etc.· The BASIC Stamp is an embedded controller.· You normally wouldn’t do these kinds of things with a BASIC Stamp.· In all fairness I believe PC Applications have made programmers feel they always need more RAM than what they truly need.· Bloat-ware and large libraries of mostly unused functions have cause dramatic increases in the requirements of PC resources.· In the embedded controller world things are simpler as is the code.
7)················· Application dependant, but seems likely…Many of our customers have implemented user menus on multi-line displays.· Sometimes if there are a lot of text menus or data storage needs you may use a different BASIC Stamp Module, such as the BS2p (16K) or BS2pe (32K).
8)················· See our Products/Accessories/Sensors page…We have many sensors that are compatible with the BASIC Stamp, including a Temperature/Humidity Sensor, although I doubt you will put it in your left nostril.
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I hope this helps some.· Take care.
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
I am a quick study, and I am working hard on this stuff. I promise in short time, I will be an assett not a liabilty to the forum. Regards, SA
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Expert in many fields, dumb as a stump with STAMP
The only issue with SX/B (SX Basic) is that most of the stuff written out there is in PBASIC, so you may have to revise some things.
SX/B is pretty similar to PBASIC, but at times you have to do things a little differently, and on multiple lines (e.g. complex math & logical expressions). It can still do them, just not on one line. And the speed on the SX can be blazin' to more than make up for this.
On the relays, check out www.efx-tek.com (parallax's sister company), they have boards there that use the SSR that Chris was mentioning. I think they switch up to 1 amp AC.
If you want OOP, consider the Propeller or the Javilen (java). What's cool about SX/B is that you have the ease of Basic and the power of Assembly.
There's tons of options if extra data space, if needed. I'm sure the phones have the same issue, but use something different for data space. Ram, EEPROM, CF, USBDrives, etc.
Parallax is a fantastic source for the majority of the sensors, with tons of support, including this forum. You've stumbled upon a gold mine of information.
Good luck!
Rodney
You mention tons os sensors. Where can I find these? I have looked at the Parallax products page but I did not see an air pressure sensor, nor some other exotic ones that I don't even know I need yet. [noparse];)[/noparse]
SA
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Expert in many fields, dumb as a stump with STAMP
I had the same thing happen to me one time! [noparse]:o[/noparse])
Nice post!
Rodney