Microsoft Robotics Studio

Pierson

Hi,

Has anyone had any experience with Microsoft's Robotics Studio? I bought an eb500 for my BoeBot and downloaded the MSRS. I'm having problems running the studio, which I believe are related to network settings on my computer. the MSRS relies on the IE browser to display a control panel. There are a lot of interesting possible uses for this software, I'm just frustrated I can't get it to work yet.

On another note: the BluetoothControlledRobot pdf I downloaded from Parallax has some small inconsistencies. In figure 3, the wiring diagram shows the use of a 220 ohm resistor connected to P4 and the piezo speaker. In figure 4 it just shows a jumper. Similar with figure 10 and 11. Probably not important.

Steve Joblin

I am sad that no one has replied to your post... Microsoft's Robotics Studio looked like it would be a "big" step in amature robotics, but does not look like it getting much traction... wonder why?

allanlane5

Because the "Microsoft Robotics Studio" takes a nice, simple, PBasic programmed platform like the BOE-Bot. It then layers about $2,000 dollars of hardware and software on top of it (a PC, and a blue-tooth adapter on both ends, and the Robotics Studio software itself) in order to provide a "Microsoftian" wireless controlled robot.

In other words, in typical Microsoft fashion, they overkill the poor solution to the point where it's not cost effective for many hobbiests. Now, in all fairness, the MRS would probably work really well with a $5,000 robot -- but then you've left the 'hobby' robotics realm.

Since the BS2 is firmly in the hobby realm (though it enables some clever professional hacks) you probably won't see much on it here. Also, once the MRS 'slave program' is loaded into the BS2, and all that hardware is purchased, any further problems are MRS problems. I hope they have a Forum for that...

Kevin Wood

I think the idea is neat, but it's certainly not limited to the MRS software from MS. You could do the same thing with any programming language that lets you access the Boe-Bot via cable or wireless.

I'd like to see Parallax keep the kit going, though, because it's a good bargain.

Pierson

Once I get my PC straightened out and the Microsoft Studio working correctly, I'll give you an update. From the perspective of cost, I think $200 to Parallax, $25 for Bluetooth transceiver on the PC,·$400 for a PC with Windows, $0 for the Studio (for now, anyway), $0 for the MS programming suite (for now),·coming to roughly·$625 for a highly customizable radio controlled robot with two-way communication. And if you already have a PC with Windows, $225.

The robot gets a lobotomy, and your PC does all the work. Is that a good or a bad thing? It may be able to process sensor data more quickly (maybe, I don't know for certain), but then it has to go back and forth through the RF pipe.

One of the aspects of the Studio I'm waiting to try out is the simulations. That way anyone with just a Windows PC can run a BoeBot virtually. It would allow modifications to be tested in code, without doing any customization. Like using a laser range finder that costs a lot on a BoeBot, or an articulated arm, or a webcam. Just some of the possibilities.

lboucher

I just started playing with the bluetooth. Seems like a great Idea. Not sure what advantages MRS offers but personaly im interested in getting connected up with LAbView or C++ to do sofisticated mapping algorithms. And hopefully some vision routines, but that will take a while.

Pierson

Yeah, I'm learning C++ right now. When I get finished with this course, I plan on diving into the MRS.

I'm going to using my Ping and my BOE and work on doing a 3-D mapping of my kitchen. Not necessary for something that moves around in only two planes, but it will be fun to see what sort of picture I can paint on my computer screen.

Andy Lindsay (Parallax)

Pierson·said...

The robot gets a lobotomy, and your PC does all the work. Is that a good or a bad thing? It may be able to process sensor data more quickly (maybe, I don't know for certain), but then it has to go back and forth through the RF pipe....

...for a highly customizable radio controlled robot with two-way communication. And if you already have a PC with Windows, $225.

Once you get the hang of Microsoft Robotics Studio (MSRS) and BASIC Stamp Programming with PBASIC, the level of lobotomy can be as little or as much as you want it to be.· The trick is really choosing which processor should do which job.· For example, the BASIC Stamp can be programmed to do the infrared detection with ease; whereas, MSRS with the Bluetooth serial data pipe wouldn't really be fast enough to replace the microcontroller's signaling and I/O operations.· On the other hand, the PC side makes simulation, voice activation, machine vision, and internet control possible and potentially easier, especially with MSRS.· Some of these applications have been done with BASIC Stamps, but they required coprocessor boards.· With wireless communication and MSRS, the PC can be a much more flexible and powerful coprocessor (not to mention orchestrator).

The PBASIC example code that accompanies the Bluetooth Boe-Bot robot kit for MSRS takes care of motor and indicator control, sensor reading, and communication with MSRS.· As written, it expects MSRS to tell it to take and report sensor readings and carry out various motor, indicator, and navigation mode commands that MSRS issues.· However, the tables could be turned so that the Boe-Bot only sends occasional updates and does most of its navigation and decision making on its own.· With this setup, MSRS might just log occasional messages received from the Boe-Bot and/or sends occasional higher level commands, maybe telling the Boe-Bot to switch to a different operation mode for some reason.· For that matter, the tables could be further turned so that the Boe-Bot controls a PC app.· Either case involves adjustments to the PBASIC program running in the Boe-Bot's BASIC Stamp along with corresponding changes to one or more C# files in MSRS.

For the sake of example, the Bluetooth Boe-Bot kit for MSRS PDF documentation demonstrates offloading certain PBASIC code examples from the Robotics with the Boe-Bot text to MSRS.· One of the examples features the MSRS version of FastIrRoaming.bs2 from Chapter 7, Activity #5.· The MSRS version pipes all the measurements through the Bluetooth link to and from MSRS.· As a result it is slightly slower to respond than the BASIC Stamp version.· Since there's a fairly large space cushion between the Boe-Bot and obstacles it detects with infrared, the Bluetooth module propagated delays really don't matter.·

On the other hand, the Boe-Bot's whiskers have a much smaller distance cushion, and the maneuver is a lot cleaner when the BASIC Stamp is in charge and it doesn't have to make that round trip to MSRS and back via the Bluetooth modules.· There's an example near the end of the Bluetooth Boe-Bot kit for MSRS PDF that demonstrates a different approach for MSRS controlled navigation with Whiskers.· Instead of offloading the ALL the whisker response code to MSRS, the Boe-Bot instead executes code that makes it stop when a whisker contact is detected.· After the Boe-Bot stops, the BASIC Stamp sends a whisker state report to MSRS and waits for a new directive.· The result is a maneuver that's every bit as clean as the fully BASIC Stamp controlled version.· The Whisker coding adjustments provide a small example of the many ways that jobs can be redistributed between the PC and microcontroller with come coding adjustments.·

If Microsoft Robotics Studio and wireless PC robot control does become the backbone of a variety of commercial, home, and competition robots, the examples in the Bluetooth Boe-Bot for MSRS kit will provide folks who are interested in getting involved a starting point with examples that illustrate the various considerations that go into both the microcontroller and PC code designs.· From that standpoint, I think it’s a pretty useful kit.· And, as Pierson pointed out, provided you've got a PC, it's quite the deal.· The current Bluetooth Boe-Bot kit for MSRS sale price is ~ $199, and the software is all free (BASIC Stamp Editor, Visual Studio, Microsoft Robotics Studio).

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Andy Lindsay

Education Department
Parallax, Inc.

Post Edited (Andy Lindsay (Parallax)) : 1/4/2007 3:46:08 AM GMT

Pierson

Hi Andy,

I'm really happy to see an answer from Parallax!

You give a thoughtful, accurate overview of the Bluetooth Boe-Bot and the MRS, along with some of the exciting things possible with the combination.

My characterization of the Boe-Bot having a labotomy was a generalization, intending to address what might be another criticism of the B-B/MRS combination, and hopefully stimulate a response, which it now has.

In the BluetoothControlledBoebot.pdf, I noticed a slight discrepancy with some of the wiring diagrams. On page 5, figure 3 has a 220 Ohm resistor connecting P4 to the piezo's + terminal, while figure 4 appears to have a jumper wire in that location. (I happen to have the jumper in place, and it's working.)

Figures 10 and 11 show the same thing.

I admit I haven't done anything with the BoeBot or the MRS in more than a month, but I'm hoping that Parallax will continue working on this project and that more documentation from Parallax, and additional examples of C# code will be forthcoming.

Post Edited (Pierson) : 1/4/2007 1:58:36 PM GMT

Andy Lindsay (Parallax)

Thanks Pierson.

I'm revising that doc with some tips for using Microsoft's tutorials (more C# examples), and I'll see about fixing the resistor problem too. I'll post here as soon as the updated doc gets linked into the web page. Make sure to download the 1.0 version of MSRS before proceeding.

I think the term lobotomy is really funny, and yesterday's post started out with all kinds of references to lobotomy, lobotomy level, lobotomized, and so on. Before posting, I went back and removed them so as to not mislead any surfers who might land here via a search engine.

Andy

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Andy Lindsay

Education Department
Parallax, Inc.

quispqix

The MRS seems overwhelming to me. When I want to program my Boe-Bot or my stamps I use the Parallax programs. I am already
familiar with them. I don't know how to start MRS and I don't have the time to learn, Much less learn to program them. I also don't have the physics card. But in Microsofts defense I am trying to utilize the free Express Editions of Visual Basic and C++ ( they also have free Express Editions of SQL Server, Visual Web Developer, and J#, C#)

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Pierson

I'm using the free Visual C++ Express edition for a class on C++ programming, and I agree it's great. After I finish the course, I'm going to try to transition to C# so I can use the MRS.

By the way, I don't have the physics card, either. The MRS comes with a software emulator to handle that stuff.

Andy Lindsay (Parallax)

quispqix said...
The MRS seems overwhelming to me...

Yes, there's a lot to learn.· I'm in that learning curve too.· The best thing to do is keep chipping away at it.· In the end, you'll have picked up a valuable new skill.

Microsoft Visual Studio has tutorials for Visual C#, and Microsoft Robotics Studio has tutorials for Robotics Studio.· The next revision of the PDF instructions for the Boe-Bot + Bluetooth for Microsoft Robotics Studio will have some extra tips on using the tutorials.· I'll post a notice hear as soon as the revised instructions are available for download.·

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Andy Lindsay

Education Department
Parallax, Inc.

quispqix

If when I learn C# and J#, Then is it possible to write code (or dose it exist?) for creating a MRS enviornment for use with the PINK module and BASIC Stamps. And although not related here,... also for the Atmel AVR using C++ And these are all supported using
the Visual Studio Express Editions. You have planted the seed!

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Pierson

Check here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/robotics/ for your answer.·

Pardon my ignorance, what is a PINK module?

quispqix

Parallax Internet Netburner Kit

http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30013


New Post,...

Here is something I found researching the MRS,...

WIKI on the MRS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Robotics_Studio
That's where I found this,... PLAYER = Linux (PC and embedded), Solaris and *BSD

PLAYER http://playerstage.sourceforge.net/index.php?src=player
DOCUMENTATION (users Manual) http://playerstage.sourceforge.net/index.php?src=doc

On the Microsoft site I found useful the Visual Basic Script Users Guide

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/script56/html/0a8270d7-7d8f-4368-b2a7-065acb52fc54.asp

And cutting back on that url http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/

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Drink Milk!
skype me: quispqix
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Post Edited (quispqix) : 1/12/2007 2:37:21 AM GMT

quispqix

Here is how far I got. I replaced my Apache server with the Java Platform Enterprise Edition 5 SDK. I installed the MRS and put the MRS DOS TYPE icon on the desktop along with the VPL icon. On my own intrAnet http://205.176.4.102:8080/quispweb.html (no I don't think you can surf there) I have my own Emaginary quispqix Microsoft Robotics Studio 'page' with my two links to my P.I.N.K.S.
then the third link to my New and improved >>> http://alyssa:50000/ <<< Microsoft Robotics Control Panel. I learned I can create my own services, mater of fact I got one running right now, but unfortunatley I cannot figure out what it is doing or how to configure it to control a BASIC Stamp rather that a Boe-Bot. I need to learn the Visual Programming Language a little better now.

Oh,... The MRS Services need to be running to access the http://alyssa:50000/ Control panel, that site does not want to work when you shut down the MRS

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skype me: quispqix
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Post Edited (quispqix) : 1/15/2007 4:19:57 PM GMT

phog

Has anyone setup a simulation in MSRS for the BOE Bot / bluetooth combo yet?· I just ordered one... am anxious to play!· -phog