Basic Stamp and bluetooth serial cable replacement
shortcircuit
Posts: 11
using bluetooth serial works fine for my CMU cam.
But I can neither program the stamp over BT nor get a pre loaded program to serout data to a teminal
and no.. i dont want to buy some other parallax BT solution.
any ideas???
But I can neither program the stamp over BT nor get a pre loaded program to serout data to a teminal
and no.. i dont want to buy some other parallax BT solution.
any ideas???
Comments
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how does the whole DTR-->ATN process work anyway? Can I emulate the ATN signal needed locally w/ the stamp?
maybe I can jump the DTR line to something else?
And the IDE uses a hard-wired RTS to CTS connection to detect if the cable is connected -- which removes those two signals as a way of remapping DTR.
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
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·· The Toothpick Stamp Edition has this facility and can be found on our website.
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30076
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
So ill give up on remote programming for now.....
This is where I am so far. I can receive data from stamp to terminal but cannot send from terminal, or sent data is not being recognised.
All works fine over hardline but over BT i get nothing. Data is xmitted on TX RX only.. right? These Have to be replicated by the Btooth right! (iogear).
also the SERIN command.... does this thing just wait when initiated until data is received? (unless a timeout is specified?) if so is there a "whenever data comes in .. 'deal with it' command
Id hate to pepetually loop SERIN with a small timout just to pickup instructions.
is this PIC basic ?
This would be a great idea if i hadn't already bought a bunch of PARALLAX stuff! and all my progs were in Pbasic!
Man, Parallax is really gonna miss the boat if they dont get something like this on the market themselves.
Let me see if I can offer you a few clues here, although I've never used BlueTooth anything. This is by no means a "blueprint" for what one needs to do.
The following is just generic information, and I do not have more specific information to offer about Stamp programming means. However, those who have had a specific need to develop remote programming means (I.E. the Stache - ask if you would like to know more) have done their homework to unearth the necessary control signalling to perform such a task.
Programming the Stamp remotely is a process in and of itself. In other words, ordinary serial processing, via any means (including BlueTooth) is done in one manner, and the act of programming the Stamp is done in a different manner. Said differently, if you were able to communicate with a Stamp via some particular serial means successfully, that is NOT to say that you could use the same means to program the Stamp successfully.
In general terms, the IDE and the Stamp transmit and receive certain hardware signals, along with the normal software data transmissions and software handshaking which would be required to merely transmit the "data" (actually the program in this case) from one to the other. This process, in and of itself, is fairly transparent and ordinary. HOWEVER, there is a preface or prefix·routine or methodology, which is really the crux of the matter.
There are really very few simple means by which any software program (the IDE in this case) is able to thoroughly "investigate" a hardware device to ensure it meets a host of criteria, short of transmitting a "serial number" (aka identification methodology) or something similar. Thus, a series of steps must be taken, in order to provide this communications link integrity.
First, and foremost, a check must be made to see if something is physically attached. This is done via the "loopback test". Second, if something is there, there must be some sort of software and/or hardware handshaking, to attempt to communicate "I am who you think I am". Some other interim checks are then made. Lastly, there must be some insurance that the serial programming line is solid, true, and as expected. The most simple way to do this is by relying on expected handshake timing. If a "PING" (inquiry) gets a "PONG" (response) in an appropriate and timely manner, then the serial line can be SAID to be solid, true, and as expected. HOWEVER, the PRESUMPTION is that this is a HARDWARE or HARD WIRED connection! Therein TIMING becomes VERY important if done by some means other than a "hard" connection.
It is this last timing aspect which causes many "cheap" USB-to-serial converters to fail during the programming exercise, as well as many wireless programming methods. I suppose it deserves being said that if every system and device played exactly by the "rules" then there would (almost) never be a problem. Fortunately or unfortunately, this often costs $$, and some systems or companies aren't willing to spend the money to ensure 100% compatibility with the established "rules"; thus they fail the "test".
There are also some security concerns enveloped within the programming methodology, but that goes beyond the scope of this message.
I hope you find that basic information helpful.
Regards,
Bruce Bates
so is there some way to bypass the editor handshake function to act in the same regard as the UDP (network) protocol ie.. fire and forget, wherein the editor dosent do the loopback test, just sends the signal hoping there's something on the other line to receive it? Ive searched for settings similar to this in the GUI but alas havent found any [noparse]:([/noparse]
i guess i'd have to loop the ATN pin to a constant inverted 12v from the board and hope the BS2 doenst just constantly reset itself
and then what? somehow fake a signal change on DTR
oh BTW, when it does signal out for programming what does the voltage 'look like'. Whats acutally happening? I noticed a quick change from -12v to -9v when the program is sent to the BS2 on my VM but the VM is a cheap one and the process is kind of fast so I cant tell if its actually 'zeroing' or going to +V and i just cant see it..
are you suggesting Actually complying with RS232... there goes all the fun!
I wonder who you're talking about
I think you're still missing at least part of the point here. So long as you think or feel that you can short-cut, circumvent or bypass some of the innate and necessary communications protocal protections required for Stamp programming, you will probably continue to experience problems.
Here is another "clue" for you. So long as "you" (generic) control both ends of any wireless link, regardless of the methodology or protcal, you can simulate any kind of hardware or software handshaking you want to, and you have TOTAL control of the data. Pretty powerful thought when you consider it. To go WAY afield here for just a brief a moment - Transparent wireless encryption-on-the-fly or transparent wireless data-compression-on-the-fly both come to mind.
By way of another wired example, a USB dongle (USB to serial converter) "sees" and controls BOTH the USB and serial side. IF it were done USB -->> wireless -->> serial and you DIDN'T have control of the wireless section, can you imagine that you might have a communications problem? If not, you'd better stop here and do a good deal of reading on the topics of: Hardware/software simulation of communications signals, How to defeat or control hardware/software handshaking, and Methods and concepts in the control of remote serial devices. At least that's a start.
Just in passing, what your'e looking to do is eminently doable, so long as you control both ends of the wireless link. Somewhat needless to say, it's a GOOD deal easier to do it with a hard wired connection!· As they say, it's all in knowing how.
For a fee I could lay it out for nearly anyone, mostly because I've been in this business for over 38 years, so I've had some experience in this and other communications areas. In case it didn't occur to you this is a VERY salable product, thus the possible or potential reluctance of many to participate in this thread, and my reluctance to offer much more than I have. In the end analysis, there's really nothing propriatary or difficult about it. It's just not an innately easy or obvious thing to do, nor one which doesn't involve some hard development time, or seasoned insight, and as I'm sure you know, time is $$$, and so is "seasoned insight". Yes, I can be BOUGHT, just bring CASH :-)
In conclusion, and referring back to my original message, Tracy Allen and Steve Parkiss developed the Stache, a hardware Stamp programmer (link below) which permits you to load programs into any PBASIC Stamp without the need of a computer. Just for emphasis - WITHOUT THE NEED FOR A COMPUTER. Therein they MUST have had to be in total control of ALL the signals which would ordinarily be provided by a PC and thus it is doable on a hard wired basis, right from a microcontroller. Why do I even mention the Stache when you're talking wireless? Because, in essense, the Stache is a PORTABLE wireless link - think about it!
Link to Stache:· http://www.emesystems.com/stache.htm
Regards,
Bruce Bates
Post Edited (Bruce Bates) : 10/26/2006 10:31:34 AM GMT
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·· I never mentioned anything about PICBASIC.· The Toothpick SE (Stamp Edition) is designed for the BASIC Stamp.· It is not a stand-alone microcontroller, but a means to wirelessly program a BASIC Stamp over a Bluetooth link.· I would recommend reading the documentation before deciding that a product we sell for use with the BASIC Stamp Microcontroller would make all of the Parallax parts you bought a waste.
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
Post Edited (Chris Savage (Parallax)) : 10/26/2006 2:51:40 PM GMT
·· If you look in the documentation for the Tokenizer Library on our website the details for the signals are provided right there in the documentation.
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
Chris. The 'documentation' www.parallax.com/dl/docs/prod/compshop/Toothpick-v1.2.pdf consists of only three hundred words and left me with more questions than answers.
I got the idea that it was picbasic from the flexipanel website www.flexipanel.com/BluetoothModules.htm
Any way you can be less pedantic? "look it up" is not a helpful response.
I think that Chris was referring to the Tokenizer library documentation (at least that's what he said)...which does have the programming protocol outlined.
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Truly Understand the Fundamentals and the Path will be so much easier...
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·· You are correct, I was referring to the Tokenizer Library documentation, which I clearly stated.· When I mentioned the Toothpick SE I also referred to the link on our website, not the one he posted.· Clearly my replies are not being read in detail.
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shortcircuit,
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·· The complete documentation for the Toothpick SE can be found at the following link.··Hopefully this will answer some of your questions.··Pedantic?· I’m trying to help you.
http://www.flexipanel.com/Stamp.htm
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
Chris why do all your emails come through with xtra stuff attached it makes it hard to read
something like HTML tags all over your messages. Im asking not complaining
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
Ben.
This same problem exists from the posts of a NUMBER of Parallax employees. I stoppped complaining about this a year ago, when it appeared that no one at Parallax cared to cease using the tags.
The most disappointing case is Andy Linsay's L-O-N-G and excellent posts when he writes his online books disguised as messages
One of the obvious problems is that no one at Paralax must be reading the email output. It's obvious that they just read the web output and nothing else. Those of us that RELY on the email output are the ones who see the problem constantly.
Regards,
Bruce Bates
Post Edited (Bruce Bates) : 10/27/2006 8:29:01 AM GMT
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·· I can tell you that most of us simply write our replies using Microsoft Word and then copy and paste them into the forum editor.· We use the full editor so that links are created when necessary, however I myself do not do anything to the text.· No color changes or special things like bold or italics are being added to generate tags.· It must be automatically being done by Word?· I will pass this thread on to our IT Dept.· This stuff should really be in the “Support For Using This Forum” area and he would already see it, but I will mention it.· Thanks for your feedback.
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
chris. this is a forum where i expect people with similar problems can find each other and perhaps hammer out some answers. The only trouble I have had so far is with you. You are condescending in your unsolicited aid and I would really appreciate the opportunity to solve the specific problem stated in the opening post rather than some issue centered around you and your HTML tags. I have been courteous in my replies to those who have offered some insight but I fault you for engaging in a post whose opening caveat stated "i dont want to buy some other parallax BT solution." with the sales pitch "The Toothpick Stamp Edition has this facility and can be found on our website".
i have spent hundreds of dollars with parallax and i dont like being secretly threatened with expulsion from the forum just because you chose to enter my post and start a commotion. I expect this post will be deleted now and my user removed but if you have any humanity at all, just stop 'helping' me and go patronize someone else.
IOGEAR Serial Adapter with Bluetooth
Model # GBS301
IOGEAR USB Adapter with Bluetooth
Model # GBU311
when i installed the iogear adaptor/s it came up with two devices in the xp dev.mgr one (in) on COM 6 and (out) COM 7
seemed curious to me so I wrote prog to send to the stamp and return that input to a seperate terminal. works fine over hardline but not over BT.
Tried opening two diff com connections one on 6 and one on 5 but no luck.
tried crossing the TX&RX lines for fun .. nothing..
tried not using serin/out on 16 and splitting the comms on two different I/O pins but I must have done something wrong because I get nothing at all . zero response. this was accomplished via instructions/ish on pp338 of basic stamp manual using 22kohm R
do i need to do something else besides simply call a serin on pin 1, do i need to set the pin somehow.
has anyone dealt whith this before? I know there are others out there. and like Ive stated before, the whole schebang works fine with the CMU cam. can send/receive perfectly .. so what gives about the stamp????
i hate to sound frantic but im losing my mind trying to get this going.
If I programmed the Basic Stamp to transmit input via a debug statment, I could use Hyperterminal to read the input wireless.· This is proving handy, because I can see in real time what my robot sees via it's input untethered.
However I really which that was a way to program via the bluetooth link.· I have used the DOS editor, the Windows version 1.5, 1.7, 2.2.5 and the newest 2.2.6 all failed to find the stamp via the wireless link.· I have adjusted through all the setting for the GBS301 and the virtual serial port Windows XP lists it as.· The editor does find the virtual port and try to communicate with it.·
From under the editor RUN, then IDENTIFY, it will pause for long while on the virtual com port the BGS301 is on, the fail.· If I try to RUN a program or upload it to the Stamp, it actually generates a Blue Screen error which causes the computer to restart.· This is on a WindowsXP system, SP2.· I take it you're never failed hard enough to go to Blue Screen?
It seems to me that our stamp editor needs more control options to alow for wireless programming to work.·
-Justin Ratliff
www.trcy.org
this would,ve been a nice thing to work with ,,,,$300 for a wirless BS2 hmmm think i,ll go ITX
with a 2GIG procesor
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Problems are the "roads" of life,
solutions are only "onramps" to the next problem
············································· "Brad Smith"
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