My opinion based on recent experience written up in my thread is no, the RS fixed 5v voltage regulator will not work well (unless you're lucky). Having it burn out is only one of the likely troubles. If you hook it up to 12v you may get something like 11v.
Instead you can use thier ADJUSTABLE voltage regulator which requires a few extra parts but enables you to tune the output to exactly what you need. The extra parts can be substituted somewhat like using a 10K pot instead of a 5K or using a 330 ohm resistor instead of the lower value they show -- depends what you have on hand.
It has some protection so you can reverse it while building the circuit they show on the back of the package without damage, as long as you just use a voltmeter to test the output and insert it correctly before you draw more power than the voltmeter uses.
I recommend building and adjusting this power circuit seperately from your Stamp until you have it adjusted by voltmeter, then you can apply the regulated power to the Stamp circuit. Sometimes 12v wall transformers have say 17v output so it's best to be safe in practice even if you are using an auto battery this time.
okay so, you guys are telling me those wont work for this? i should get the ajustable ones? heh more issues and complexity added on! what if i get a heat sink for them? everyone in the beginning of this thread said get two of them, one for the stamp and one for the RFID Reader, Also for the final product i went and bought a Solder Breadboard, they have a PCB Making Kit but i was unsure on how to use it and i dont know how to make the wiring diagrams to set them onto the board. would it be better to go ahead and buy that PCB kit or use the Breadboard i bought and just hack off what i dont use? Also if i get a heat sink for the regulators the ones i showed you guys do you think they will work?
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The solder breadboard (if it's what I've seen before at RS) is just a PCB equivalent of the breadboard so that you can mount the components and wire jumpers exactly the same way you have them on the breadboard. If you're not familiar with making your own PCBs, save that for some future project.
ChrisP has a good suggestion for using a 7805 regulator with a 1N4004 diode to protect it from a reverse power connection. Do be sure to have the output capacitor. This is true for most regulators. You will need the heatsinks (and heat sink compound to go between the regulator and the heatsink - just a thin film to help conduct the heat between the two). Be sure to test the power supplies (regulators and attached components) before hooking any expensive components to them (like the Stamp and RFID reader). You'd hate to make a mistake somewhere and put 12-14V on a part made for 5V. Expensive mistake!
does someone have a schematic for setting the 7806 with all these parts up? i wanna make sure i get it right, im going to radio sahck soon and i need some parts lisyt for everything ineed for these, it would help if i knew the parts number but thats over kill to ask of you guys haha just all the parts in a row so i can print them and buy them
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At the risk of continuing to sound pedantic, did it occur to you to get the datasheet for this voltage regulator, and see what it had to say? Many, if not most datasheets produced today will give you applications diagrams, and appropriate equations to determine the necessary external components, if any are required. This IC is no different.
Take a look at the attached datasheet on Pages 23-26 for applications information.
bruce, from what ive read on radio shack the 5 volt regulator will work fine and then i dont have to use anything to ajust it. there are quit a few reviews for them, i think i might get two of those and get two of the ajustable in case they dont work to avoid another run to radioshack! but i need to know what else i need.... diodes and resistors and all that. ill look on thge site i guess because i wanna make sure these hook up right and the faster i can get the list and go the better
The regulator and diode are the ones that ChrisP was talking about and should work. The regulator is not ideal in that it draws more current than more modern regulators and is not resistant to high voltage spikes (above 30-40V) which are uncommon, but can happen in a car when a motor is turned off (like the starter or a window motor). Be sure to include a fuse. Given that your circuit won't draw anywhere near 1A total, you might choose that for your fuse value. If you want to use a smaller fuse, use what's called a SloBlo or Slow Blow fuse. Regular fuses are designed to blow nearly instantly when their current rating is exceeded. A SloBlo fuse will blow nearly instantly at several times their rated current (to catch a short circuit), but will take several seconds to blow at their rated current. This is to allow for transient higher currents like for a lightbulb to warm up or a power supply capacitor to charge up.
alright i got that one luckily there were two and i got the electrolyctic one. i got the diode but how should i hooke the fuse up? firectly onto the breadboard? does radio sahck carry those?
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Radio Shack carries a variety of fuse holders. One kind in an in-line one. It's a plastic case for the fuse with two wires, one from each end.
You use the whole assembly as the "hot" wire or splice it into the "hot" wire going to power. You rarely put a fuse in the ground wire.
There are some other fuse holders that you can mount on a PC board, but this kind is easy to use. No matter where the fuse is mounted,
electrically it goes in the "hot" lead and is the first thing (even before an on-off switch). It's intended to protect you even if you're just
opening the box to make an adjustment or to check something and accidentally drop a tool so it makes a short to ground.
Alright from some other forums ive been told done lights, fog lights, power lights are all a power source thats constant when the car is turned on, so i can splice into the done light(WHich doesnt work) and put a 1 AMP inline fuse and then im not sure how your supposed to wire these regulators up?the capactiro bridges over pin A and PIN C but whats the Pin B for? it doesnt really say on that back
What we told you is to find a shop manual for the car and look on the schematic for a place to connect the unit.
If you can't find a shop manual, you first have to check to see which lights/accessories actually stay on when you
crank the starter, particularly ones who's wiring is accessible near where you want to put your unit. You've got
to pick something that isn't controlled by some switch that you'd forget to turn on and some lights are controlled
by a brightness adjustment, etc. It's really better to find someone with a shop manual and look there.
In terms of the regulator: If you bought the Radio Shack one, it was a 7805. Do a web search for "7805" or
"LM7805" and pick one of the sites that's a real manufacturer or distributor rather than an company that
sells copies of old datasheets. It's pretty obvious. Last time I looked this up, I only had to go through 3 or 4
websites before I was able to download a copy of the datasheet ... took me about a minute, max. The datasheets
show you how to connect up the device, give you a variety of examples of its use including suggestions for
capacitors, etc. You can also try other distributor's websites like Jameco or DigiKey or Mouserand lookup the LM7805.
Those distributor's have datasheets on pretty much all of the devices they sell.
thanks Mike, ill go ahead and talk on my hondaforums.com and see if i can find someone that knows somthing thats turned off when the key is turned off and on when the car is turned on, thats kinda hard but i dunno ill figure it out! ill keep you guys updated.
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There is a Chilton's manual for this make, model, year.· There might be one at the library (if not Checker, Kragen, etc.)· Chilton's are compendiums of everything you need to know about your car.
alright well, ive been to hondaforums.com and hondahookup.com and not either of them have an idea of a wire that could be spliced into which has power from I to III and on top of that no one really is interested in answering the question, they just wanna understand what exactly the rfid reader is doing. i try to explain and i get more questions without an answer. Anyways the RFID reader will be here on the 18th so im excited about that!
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ha i got that chiltons book for my car and noticed the clock runs hot when car is running and starting. so im ganna pull that out and look at it here soon.!
Im confused on what the capacitor is for, i know its for the electrical noise and what direction does the Diode go? i looked for a schematic on this but didnt really find one.... ill update if i find one! unless someone tells me otherwise
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Post Edited (willthiswork89) : 9/12/2006 8:02:29 PM GMT
wow, i have a guy that i explained my project to and hes actually asking and talking about surfacing this commercially and mass producing it on the market.!
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Okay i got it and it actually regulated two 9 volts striaght down to 5.04 Volts! so its working correctly but to avoid noise spikes which side does the Diodes band go on?
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I would use these part if where builting this project my self
10 mfd Caps·····························$ 2.99·
12 volt regulator························· $1.49 · 10 mfd Caps·····························$ 2.99 · 5 volt regulator and a·················· $ 1.49 · 47000 mfd································· $ 5.99 on the power supply
·I would put this on the in put this on the input of the 12 volt·regulator input·pin and output pin This is because the car power supply is very noisey · ·· ·
This is what i did
·· 12 Volt regulator with a 10 mfd @35 volts on the output pin and ground pin and the output of the 12 volt regulator·to input pin on··a 5 volt regulator and a 10 mfd @ 35 volt output pin to ground pin
······· 12 volt regulator·········································· 5 volt regulator
InPut 15 Volts.<<<>>>. 12 volts.Output<<<>>>.Input 12 volts<<<>>>.Output·5 volts.<<<<>>>>>.To Card Reader
Took 5 volt regulated supply to the Reader by it self with no heat sink Now i have been using this set up for the last 3 months with no Problems
I know this because i try to run the power relay on the·5 volt·regulator with card reader and it started to run very warm so i·use·a 12 volt
relay instead of a 5 volt·relay on the 5 volt·regulator
But Do Not Run ANY Other device on that regulator it will run hot if you do
Do not run the Card Reader off of the BS2 OEM board 5 volt regulator because i try this also and that regulator ran very warm
·Now·if you do and ·do not put a 12·volt·regulator in your project you will need a Heat sink on the 5 volt regulator
Because the car output from the regulator will 13.0 volts to 15.0 volts you may have to put·a heat sink on the 12 volt regulator it
may run warm to hot if you don't
I AM only sharing this because i have try and can tell what happen to me
I have burn out regulators before now they are not that much money
I have· ONE Card Reader That let out some smoke that·hurt at· $39.00 this was not good this was the frist card reader that i bought
It happen when i had test the card read on the bread board and was putting the reader in a case·and hook up the wires up wrong that is why
i mount the regulator on the card reader and not a board
I actually am using two 5 volt regulators, one for the Stamp and one for the actual reader its self, on top of that they both have heat sinks with compound on them. To avoid them frying my stamp i decided to go along with that. I still dont understand the application of the diodes, i thought they stop Back EMF from devices like alternators and relays?
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The diodes are to protect the regulators and the rest of your circuitry from frying if you accidently connect the wires to the 12V supply backwards. Newer regulators have this kind of protection built-in, but the 78xx series did not. The diodes also absorb a little (0.7V) of the input voltage drop (12V to 5V).
For those of you following this i have successfully got it to 5 volts( Pictures to come) i took pictures on my phone of the whole process but they didnt save(its a new phone i didnt know i needed to push save lol) but basically i ran to the clock in the dash, i tore the panel apart and soldered 2 wires, one to ground and one to a yellow wire which was power when the system is starting and in position 2. then i just used the regulator to knock it to 5 volts, i scaredly ran it to the vss and vdd and to my surprise it ran AOK and i actually powered an LED with it heh. Again pictures soon to come!
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Mike, I have people interested in the product and if they are serious they want to buy them for 250 a peice. im not worried about it because i told them i dont know yet as im still kind of new to this, let alone selling somthing on a large scale. But i know in Eagle there is a way you can make a circuit diagram and either print it or have them made for you pretty cheap. Do you know anything about this?
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WTW89,
I've not used any of the schematic/PCB software or services yet. I normally use a Mac and virtually none of this stuff is available for the Mac. I do have Virtual PC which is how I run the Propeller Tool, but it's slow and awkward. I briefly looked at ExpressPCB since I'd just want a few of anything I'd probably make. The software looks straightforward, but non-standard for production purposes. A number of other people here have used Eagle and others, maybe they'll chime in.
Mike
willthiswork89 said...
Well, Currently There isnt a final circuit as im waiting for the RFID reader but ill be very happy to include a schematic for you when its finished!
Im new to making shcematics on the PC but ill try to figure that eagle program out heh, ill start on some tutorials so i dont use paint anymore.
Actually, I am only asking for the schematic (or drawing) of the POWER SUPPLY circuit that you have working now.
Comments
Instead you can use thier ADJUSTABLE voltage regulator which requires a few extra parts but enables you to tune the output to exactly what you need. The extra parts can be substituted somewhat like using a 10K pot instead of a 5K or using a 330 ohm resistor instead of the lower value they show -- depends what you have on hand.
It has some protection so you can reverse it while building the circuit they show on the back of the package without damage, as long as you just use a voltmeter to test the output and insert it correctly before you draw more power than the voltmeter uses.
I recommend building and adjusting this power circuit seperately from your Stamp until you have it adjusted by voltmeter, then you can apply the regulated power to the Stamp circuit. Sometimes 12v wall transformers have say 17v output so it's best to be safe in practice even if you are using an auto battery this time.
If this helps, thank God in prayer!
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ChrisP has a good suggestion for using a 7805 regulator with a 1N4004 diode to protect it from a reverse power connection. Do be sure to have the output capacitor. This is true for most regulators. You will need the heatsinks (and heat sink compound to go between the regulator and the heatsink - just a thin film to help conduct the heat between the two). Be sure to test the power supplies (regulators and attached components) before hooking any expensive components to them (like the Stamp and RFID reader). You'd hate to make a mistake somewhere and put 12-14V on a part made for 5V. Expensive mistake!
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At the risk of continuing to sound pedantic, did it occur to you to get the datasheet for this voltage regulator, and see what it had to say? Many, if not most datasheets produced today will give you applications diagrams, and appropriate equations to determine the necessary external components, if any are required. This IC is no different.
Take a look at the attached datasheet on Pages 23-26 for applications information.
Regards,
Bruce Bates
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2036270&cp=&origkw=1n4004&kw=1n4004&parentPage=search
thats the Diode
here is the capacitor
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102481&cp=&origkw=capacitor&kw=capacitor&parentPage=search
and the regulator
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062599&cp=&origkw=regulator&kw=regulator&parentPage=search
are these good for the application for what im doing? please any body with a reply asap so i can go get it and try it out thanks guys!
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Post Edited (willthiswork89) : 9/10/2006 6:20:43 PM GMT
The capacitor you picked is specially made for use with speakers and won't work well for this application better is:
<http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062393&cp=2032058.2032230.2032267&allCount=101&fbn=Type/Electrolytic+Capacitors&f=PAD/Product+Type/Electrolytic+Capacitors&fbc=1&parentPage=family>
This one will also work fine:
<http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102509&cp=2032058.2032230.2032267&pg=3&allCount=101&fbn=Type/Electrolytic+Capacitors&f=PAD/Product+Type/Electrolytic+Capacitors&fbc=1&parentPage=family>
Post Edited (Mike Green) : 9/10/2006 8:35:54 PM GMT
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You use the whole assembly as the "hot" wire or splice it into the "hot" wire going to power. You rarely put a fuse in the ground wire.
There are some other fuse holders that you can mount on a PC board, but this kind is easy to use. No matter where the fuse is mounted,
electrically it goes in the "hot" lead and is the first thing (even before an on-off switch). It's intended to protect you even if you're just
opening the box to make an adjustment or to check something and accidentally drop a tool so it makes a short to ground.
edit:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102748&cp=&origkw=1+amp+fuse&kw=1+amp+fuse&parentPage=search
this is the only amp fuse i found if you guyts know of a better one then tell me
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Post Edited (willthiswork89) : 9/11/2006 1:42:39 PM GMT
What we told you is to find a shop manual for the car and look on the schematic for a place to connect the unit.
If you can't find a shop manual, you first have to check to see which lights/accessories actually stay on when you
crank the starter, particularly ones who's wiring is accessible near where you want to put your unit. You've got
to pick something that isn't controlled by some switch that you'd forget to turn on and some lights are controlled
by a brightness adjustment, etc. It's really better to find someone with a shop manual and look there.
In terms of the regulator: If you bought the Radio Shack one, it was a 7805. Do a web search for "7805" or
"LM7805" and pick one of the sites that's a real manufacturer or distributor rather than an company that
sells copies of old datasheets. It's pretty obvious. Last time I looked this up, I only had to go through 3 or 4
websites before I was able to download a copy of the datasheet ... took me about a minute, max. The datasheets
show you how to connect up the device, give you a variety of examples of its use including suggestions for
capacitors, etc. You can also try other distributor's websites like Jameco or DigiKey or Mouserand lookup the LM7805.
Those distributor's have datasheets on pretty much all of the devices they sell.
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Im confused on what the capacitor is for, i know its for the electrical noise and what direction does the Diode go? i looked for a schematic on this but didnt really find one.... ill update if i find one! unless someone tells me otherwise
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Post Edited (willthiswork89) : 9/12/2006 8:02:29 PM GMT
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························································································ ·
I have been following this for a while
·I·bulit a·soldering station timer controler that i posted
·I used BS2 OEM board and a RFID card reader
I·used the following·from·Radio Shack·,····You could use this to built the Test Power Supply you buy all these parts about $25.00
····························· All of these are about amounts
·A 12 volt tranformer @ 300 m·amp···· $4.99
·
··· Bread Board································$3.99
I would use these part if where builting this project my self
10 mfd Caps·························· ···$ 2.99·
12 volt regulator························· $1.49
·
10 mfd Caps·························· ···$ 2.99
·
5 volt regulator and a·················· $ 1.49
·
47000 mfd································· $ 5.99
on the power supply
·I would put this on the in put this on the input of the 12 volt·regulator input·pin and output pin
This is because the car power supply is very noisey
·
· ·
·
This is what i did
·· 12 Volt regulator with a 10 mfd @35 volts on the output pin and ground pin and the output of the 12 volt regulator·to input pin on··a 5 volt regulator and a 10 mfd @ 35 volt output pin to ground pin
······· 12 volt regulator········································· · 5 volt regulator
InPut 15 Volts.<<<>>>. 12 volts.Output<<<>>>.Input 12 volts<<<>>>.Output·5 volts.<<<<>>>>>.To Card Reader
Took 5 volt regulated supply to the Reader by it self with no heat sink Now i have been using this set up for the last 3 months with no Problems
I know this because i try to run the power relay on the·5 volt·regulator with card reader and it started to run very warm so i·use·a 12 volt
relay instead of a 5 volt·relay on the 5 volt·regulator
But Do Not Run ANY Other device on that regulator it will run hot if you do
Do not run the Card Reader off of the BS2 OEM board 5 volt regulator because i try this also and that regulator ran very warm
·Now·if you do and ·do not put a 12·volt·regulator in your project you will need a Heat sink on the 5 volt regulator
Because the car output from the regulator will 13.0 volts to 15.0 volts you may have to put·a heat sink on the 12 volt regulator it
may run warm to hot if you don't
I AM only sharing this because i have try and can tell what happen to me
I have burn out regulators before now they are not that much money
I have· ONE Card Reader That let out some smoke that·hurt at· $39.00 this was not good this was the frist card reader that i bought
It happen when i had test the card read on the bread board and was putting the reader in a case·and hook up the wires up wrong that is why
i mount the regulator on the card reader and not a board
I hope this will·Helps you
Sam
I actually am using two 5 volt regulators, one for the Stamp and one for the actual reader its self, on top of that they both have heat sinks with compound on them. To avoid them frying my stamp i decided to go along with that. I still dont understand the application of the diodes, i thought they stop Back EMF from devices like alternators and relays?
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12VDC--->Diode | |->Positive Terminal of Regulator
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Would you mind posting a schematic of the final circuit?
Thanks!
Im new to making shcematics on the PC but ill try to figure that eagle program out heh, ill start on some tutorials so i dont use paint anymore.
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I've not used any of the schematic/PCB software or services yet. I normally use a Mac and virtually none of this stuff is available for the Mac. I do have Virtual PC which is how I run the Propeller Tool, but it's slow and awkward. I briefly looked at ExpressPCB since I'd just want a few of anything I'd probably make. The software looks straightforward, but non-standard for production purposes. A number of other people here have used Eagle and others, maybe they'll chime in.
Mike
Actually, I am only asking for the schematic (or drawing) of the POWER SUPPLY circuit that you have working now.