Download function

RickyC

Hello, everybody!
As I am new member here and I got a problem on my robotic project. I asked Paralla support but got result as below:
·· Quote:
We currently do not have plans to support this feature and it will be
removed from future documentation to avoid confusion.

Chris Savage
Parallax Technical Support
csavage@parallax.com

My question is:

Please advise when we can get revised program that with
download function in order to save and executes sequences on Stamp
BS2px24.
So, if any body can help me out of this.
Thks
ricky

Mike Green

What feature are you asking about? It's not clear from your message.

RickyC

Hello mike,
thks for yr mail, i am asking how to down load the programed sequences from psci to stamp? As mentioned on the psci manual p.8
bst rgds,
ricky

mike green said...
what feature are you asking about? It's not clear from your message.

Paul Sr.

Chris' message is pretty clear.

They do NOT support it, and they WILL NOT BE supporting it.

No mystery there!!!

RickyC

Thks mike,

i have found other board on the web that support this function.·i will give up to use parallax products any more.

Rgds,
ricky

RickyC

Thks pwssr,

understand n as i said no more parallax products on my project.

Ricky

pwssr said...
chris' message is pretty clear.

They do not support it, and they will not be supporting it.

No mystery there!!!

Bruce Bates

RickyC -

Condemning an entire company or line of products due to one product which doesn't presently meet your needs, seems a bit short-sighted and possibly smacks of immature thinking, wouldn't you say?

Regards,

Bruce Bates

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RickyC

Thks Bruce,
I don't like pointing finger and just want work done. If they don't support·what am·I going to do? Please teach me.
Ricky

Bruce Bates said...
RickyC -

Condemning an entire company or line of products due to one product which doesn't presently meet your needs, seems a bit short-sighted and possibly smacks of immature thinking, wouldn't you say?

Regards,

Bruce Bates

Mike Green

I'm still confused. I just don't know what PSCI stands for or what program sequences you want to download. Sorry.

I basically agree with Bruce. I've been using Parallax products for many years. I don't always like the decisions they make. Sometimes I really believe that some of them are short-sighted. On the other hand, it's their business. They understand the majority of their customers and their needs much better than I do. They do make quality products and stand behind their quality. They also are extremely creative (witness the Propeller). That's a lot these days in a small niche company in a difficult market.

Bruce Bates

Mike -

My best guess is that he's looking for a scripting language for the Parallac Servo Controller. Nice idea I suppose, but most people write the "action sequences" to external EEPROM and then read them back and perform them, from what I understand. I suppose if that were an automated process (learn = write or re-write, perform = read) it might even be easier <shrug>.

I guess some folks prefer that things like that are done for them, rather than exerting the programming effort. Me, I enjoy the programming challange. IMHO, this is more an EFX or animitronics project than anything else.

Regards,

Bruce Bates

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Mike Green

Thanks for the explanation. I can imagine how having such a capability would be important for someone looking for a "canned" system for a project. It saves time and effort. If the EFX folks thought it was enough of a market, I'm sure it would be on their list of things to do, particularly once they get a Prop-2 on the market.

It's things like this that do drive decisions for or against a particular manufacturer as a choice for projects. Parallax is very strongly oriented towards an educational market where it's important that people learn skills, make some of their own tools from pieces.

Bruce Bates

Mike et al -

Rightly or wrongly, it was my impresstion that most of the EFX efforts were going to be made by Jon Williams, and John Barrowman at their new company here:
http://www.efx-tek.com/

I certainly stand to be corrected.

Regards,

Bruce Bates

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RickyC

Hello, Bruce
You are exactly right.
Ricky

Bruce Bates said...
Mike et al -

Rightly or wrongly, it was my impresstion that most of the EFX efforts were going to be made by Jon Williams, and John Barrowman at their new company here:
http://www.efx-tek.com/

I certainly stand to be corrected.

Regards,

Bruce Bates

PAR

Mike Green said...
Thanks for the explanation. I can imagine how having such a capability would be important for someone looking for a "canned" system for a project. It saves time and effort. If the EFX folks thought it was enough of a market, I'm sure it would be on their list of things to do, particularly once they get a Prop-2 on the market.

It's things like this that do drive decisions for or against a particular manufacturer as a choice for projects. Parallax is very strongly oriented towards an educational market where it's important that people learn skills, make some of their own tools from pieces.

Mike, The "real" explanation of what Ricky sought from Parallax was a _feature_ advertised in the documentation of their (Parallax's, not EFX's) product (at the time). For those Parallax customers whose decision to ·purchase the product (then) based at least partially on the committment/statements made in the product's documentation, those buyers'· expectations were not fulfilled with, nor ever after, their purchase of the product.

More specifically, the Parallax Servo Controller (PSC) USB version (in that version's documentation), was advertised as being provided "with a free graphical user interface" which·would allow the·PSC servos animator to more easily ("palatable fun process" rather than "be tedious to say the least") create multi-servo, multi-step sequences. One specific feature of that GUI·cited in the documentation was "Sequences may be stored·as files on your PC's hard drive to be retrieved for later use[noparse][[/noparse]i.e., from the GUI], or you may optionally download your [noparse][[/noparse]GUI-created]·sequence into a stamp (BS2 or higher)"·[noparse][[/noparse]page 1 of the 4/2005 revision of the PSC/USB·documentation]. On page 7, it states further, "Though the download button functions, the stamp program has not been written at this time to receive, store, and parse the data. FEAR NOT, WE WILL BE POSTING THAT PROGRAM TO OUR WEBSITE VERY SOON" [noparse][[/noparse]EMPHASIS mine]; the statement was made in 4/2005, and not revised until 8/2006 to remove that committment to old PSC/USB customers.

I may note also that another "feature" identified in that earlier documentation has been removed. The statements, "Optional loop commands can cause the sequence to repeat part or all of itself any where in the sequence" [noparse][[/noparse]page 1], and
"Looping enables sequences to repeat entirely or just parts" [noparse][[/noparse]page 2], are no longer (8/2006 edition)·in the documentation.
(I am not sure what that looping feature was --it may have been referring to the "Go to [noparse][[/noparse]FRAME N]" GUI feature?? This feature, to my understanding of how it works, never really did provide a looping capability which would allow looping of "just parts" (but only of the tail end of a sequence of frames); maybe I just never understood how looping and/or Go to was supposed to work --it seemed kind of obvious though from the documentation.)

Anyway, I do not think that a defense of Parallax is deserved --based on that documentation, and based on Chris's (PM ?) reply to Ricky ("We currently do not have plans to support this feature and it will be removed from future documentation to avoid confusion"). It's one thing to talk loosely and informally about "futures", but it's not really appropriate to sell them.

Perhaps if the syntax of the frames/sequences were publically documented, folks could take a crack at their own receiving/storing/parsing of a downloaded sequence --even if the sequences do not have any looping capabilities? (Or at least, get a sense of why these features --offloading,·looping-- ·never were fully implemented?)

I have great respect for Parallax and its business model, and enjoy their products and (free!) services. This is an anomalous example of how not to do business however.

PAR

RickyC

Hello Par,
Thks for your message that what I try to said. The story is I search on the web to find parts for my robotics project and found Parallax. I read through all thier documents and manuals, then I picked up few parts that I think workabe like, Board of Education, PSC-USB,PSC-SER and BS2px24. After that I tried and found all look good except two functions, down load and loops stated on the manual. Then of course I ask for support to Parallax. The replies as you knew, seems to me that all I ask is no meaning, they just·simiply delete those functions on the manual and reason is prevent confuse in the future. What does that means!! People buy things from web the most concern is credit of the company and support from the company. People paid on web is based on one word "trust". If company don't have·neither one, customer will be gone one by one.
The other point·I have to·talk about is "canned" system, is it shame on buying "canned" things? Everybody buy·Coke and canned foods all the time.·I no need to raise a cow in order to have my milk every morning. This is not a issue to discuss here.
rgds,
Ricky
PS. Loops is just like the repeat button to execute program repeatedly.

PAR said...

Mike Green said...
Thanks for the explanation. I can imagine how having such a capability would be important for someone looking for a "canned" system for a project. It saves time and effort. If the EFX folks thought it was enough of a market, I'm sure it would be on their list of things to do, particularly once they get a Prop-2 on the market.

It's things like this that do drive decisions for or against a particular manufacturer as a choice for projects. Parallax is very strongly oriented towards an educational market where it's important that people learn skills, make some of their own tools from pieces.

Mike, The "real" explanation of what Ricky sought from Parallax was a _feature_ advertised in the documentation of their (Parallax's, not EFX's) product (at the time). For those Parallax customers whose decision to ·purchase the product (then) based at least partially on the committment/statements made in the product's documentation, those buyers'· expectations were not fulfilled with, nor ever after, their purchase of the product.

More specifically, the Parallax Servo Controller (PSC) USB version (in that version's documentation), was advertised as being provided "with a free graphical user interface" which·would allow the·PSC servos animator to more easily ("palatable fun process" rather than "be tedious to say the least") create multi-servo, multi-step sequences. One specific feature of that GUI·cited in the documentation was "Sequences may be stored·as files on your PC's hard drive to be retrieved for later use[noparse][[/noparse]i.e., from the GUI], or you may optionally download your [noparse][[/noparse]GUI-created]·sequence into a stamp (BS2 or higher)"·[noparse][[/noparse]page 1 of the 4/2005 revision of the PSC/USB·documentation]. On page 7, it states further, "Though the download button functions, the stamp program has not been written at this time to receive, store, and parse the data. FEAR NOT, WE WILL BE POSTING THAT PROGRAM TO OUR WEBSITE VERY SOON" [noparse][[/noparse]EMPHASIS mine]; the statement was made in 4/2005, and not revised until 8/2006 to remove that committment to old PSC/USB customers.

I may note also that another "feature" identified in that earlier documentation has been removed. The statements, "Optional loop commands can cause the sequence to repeat part or all of itself any where in the sequence" [noparse][[/noparse]page 1], and
"Looping enables sequences to repeat entirely or just parts" [noparse][[/noparse]page 2], are no longer (8/2006 edition)·in the documentation.
(I am not sure what that looping feature was --it may have been referring to the "Go to [noparse][[/noparse]FRAME N]" GUI feature?? This feature, to my understanding of how it works, never really did provide a looping capability which would allow looping of "just parts" (but only of the tail end of a sequence of frames); maybe I just never understood how looping and/or Go to was supposed to work --it seemed kind of obvious though from the documentation.)

Anyway, I do not think that a defense of Parallax is deserved --based on that documentation, and based on Chris's (PM ?) reply to Ricky ("We currently do not have plans to support this feature and it will be removed from future documentation to avoid confusion"). It's one thing to talk loosely and informally about "futures", but it's not really appropriate to sell them.

Perhaps if the syntax of the frames/sequences were publically documented, folks could take a crack at their own receiving/storing/parsing of a downloaded sequence --even if the sequences do not have any looping capabilities? (Or at least, get a sense of why these features --offloading,·looping-- ·never were fully implemented?)

I have great respect for Parallax and its business model, and enjoy their products and (free!) services. This is an anomalous example of how not to do business however.

PAR

Chris Savage

RickyC said...
Hello Par,
Thks for your message that what I try to said. The story is I search on the web to find parts for my robotics project and found Parallax. I read through all thier documents and manuals, then I picked up few parts that I think workabe like, Board of Education, PSC-USB,PSC-SER and BS2px24. After that I tried and found all look good except two functions, down load and loops stated on the manual. Then of course I ask for support to Parallax. The replies as you knew, seems to me that all I ask is no meaning, they just·simiply delete those functions on the manual and reason is prevent confuse in the future. What does that means!! People buy things from web the most concern is credit of the company and support from the company. People paid on web is based on one word "trust". If company don't have·neither one, customer will be gone one by one.
The other point·I have to·talk about is "canned" system, is it shame on buying "canned" things? Everybody buy·Coke and canned foods all the time.·I no need to raise a cow in order to have my milk every morning. This is not a issue to discuss here.
rgds,
Ricky
PS. Loops is just like the repeat button to execute program repeatedly.

RickyC,

·· When you contacted Parallax Tech Support you requested an API or other example source or information for controlling the USB-PSC from within C, C++, etc.· As we replied, we could offer no help on those languages.· You stated that your sole desire was to write code on the PC to control the PSC and were told that the PSC requires nothing more than serial data easily sent from within your application.· It was at this point you requested the support for the download and loop functions.· Since a BASIC Stamp was never part of your design goals the download function would do you no good.· This was also explained.

·· As for looping, that is a function of the user program and is not a feature that the PSC is lacking.· The "feature" was removed from the documentation for just this reason.· We tried to explain that it is not a function of the PSC but something you implement.· The PSCI software implements this by allowing you to specify on channels when to wrap back to a specific point and to where in the "frames".· So this feature is there, but again, you need to write your code to implement it.· I would recommend a good tutorial on Serial programming for C, C++.· Once you understand how that works it should be easy to implement the functions you originally requested.· I hope this helps.· Take care.

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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
csavage@parallax.com

RickyC

Hello Chris,
I believe I have to say clear that I am not asking how to write the program? I asked where is the function stated on your manual? The reason why·you deleted the feature on the documentation is what you·replied my email Quoted:
·{Yes, that is correct.· The engineer who designed the PSC and wrote that
manual is no longer here and therefore unable to develop any new
software features.· To that end if you go to the product page on our
website and download the latest copy of the USB-PSC manual you will note
that all references to these features have been removed.· Sorry for any
inconvenience.)
Chris, I am very sorry to say that but you have to tell the true, also,·don't just look at a tree in front of you, look at the forest behind.
Anyway, I have found another servo controll board that included loops and download (export) function or you may go to Lynxmotion to check.
Thks
Ricky

Chris Savage (Parallax) said...

RickyC said...
Hello Par,
Thks for your message that what I try to said. The story is I search on the web to find parts for my robotics project and found Parallax. I read through all thier documents and manuals, then I picked up few parts that I think workabe like, Board of Education, PSC-USB,PSC-SER and BS2px24. After that I tried and found all look good except two functions, down load and loops stated on the manual. Then of course I ask for support to Parallax. The replies as you knew, seems to me that all I ask is no meaning, they just·simiply delete those functions on the manual and reason is prevent confuse in the future. What does that means!! People buy things from web the most concern is credit of the company and support from the company. People paid on web is based on one word "trust". If company don't have·neither one, customer will be gone one by one.
The other point·I have to·talk about is "canned" system, is it shame on buying "canned" things? Everybody buy·Coke and canned foods all the time.·I no need to raise a cow in order to have my milk every morning. This is not a issue to discuss here.
rgds,
Ricky
PS. Loops is just like the repeat button to execute program repeatedly.

RickyC,

·· When you contacted Parallax Tech Support you requested an API or other example source or information for controlling the USB-PSC from within C, C++, etc.· As we replied, we could offer no help on those languages.· You stated that your sole desire was to write code on the PC to control the PSC and were told that the PSC requires nothing more than serial data easily sent from within your application.· It was at this point you requested the support for the download and loop functions.· Since a BASIC Stamp was never part of your design goals the download function would do you no good.· This was also explained.

·· As for looping, that is a function of the user program and is not a feature that the PSC is lacking.· The "feature" was removed from the documentation for just this reason.· We tried to explain that it is not a function of the PSC but something you implement.· The PSCI software implements this by allowing you to specify on channels when to wrap back to a specific point and to where in the "frames".· So this feature is there, but again, you need to write your code to implement it.· I would recommend a good tutorial on Serial programming for C, C++.· Once you understand how that works it should be easy to implement the functions you originally requested.· I hope this helps.· Take care.

Ryan Clarke

The Parallax servo controller works with VSA software. Any numbers found with the PSCI software can be coded into PBASIC easily.

Ryan

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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support

RClarke@Parallax.com

RickyC

Hello, ryan
thks and will try.
rgds,
Ricky

Ryan Clarke (Parallax) said...
The Parallax servo controller works with VSA software. Any numbers found with the PSCI software can be coded into PBASIC easily.

Ryan

RickyC

Hello,Ryan
I try to writ VER? Command to identify firmware version number on BOEusb w/2px and a Servo controller as same as on document. On the debug window only can see "Finding PSC" repeately and green LED on SCB flashing only without showing version number. Also, is it PSCI working with BOEusb? PLease help. My hardware already completed and waiting for the software. Thanks.
Ricky

Chris Savage

The baud rate values used by the BS2px are different than those used by the BS2, therefore the example code will not work without changing that value to the correct one for the BS2px.

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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support

allanlane5

Ricky:

Please start another thread for this question. This thread is pretty full already with all that back-and-forth about that missing 'feature' you misunderstood about.