Eagle Light Board Layout

Bullwinkle

I am just starting with the board layout. However I have quite a few components and the default board size is too small to accomodate them. How do I make it bigger? I have tried moving the lines but the logical size stays the same. I still can't move components to this area with getting the error "The Light edition of EAGLE can't perform the requested action!".

How do I get around this? I looked in the online help but could not find anything usefull?

Also, any general tips of circuit layout? I'm attempting to layout the components similar to the schematic, more or less. But, as I say, I just keep running out of room!!!

Post Edited (Bullwinkle) : 5/14/2006 6:58:26 AM GMT

LoopyByteloose

There is a size limit of 1/2 a Euro Card for the free version.
Any larger will cost you money.

The $50 version is a Full Euro Card.

The Professional is costly and unlimited size, unlimited everything.

BTW, don't select the card frame until after you have drawn the schematic, moved through autoroute, and done most of your repositioning. You may be limiting yourself through selecting a border for the PC board too early. [noparse][[/noparse]This is just a hunch.]

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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan

Bruce Bates

George -

For those of us who thought a Euro was a monetary unit, I wonder if you be kind enough to approximate the size of a "Euro Card" and/or 1/2 a "Euro Card" for us?

Thanks

Regards,

Bruce Bates

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LoopyByteloose

I think I have a full Euro Card right next to me.
I just have to measure it.
102mm X 163mm

Oh. Do you want inches?
3 3/8th x 5 5/16ths

Of course, I may have been thinking these are Euro Cards for the past 5 years and they are not.
Can anyone verify?

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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan

Paul Baker

The actual limitations imposed by the freeware edition is 4x3.2 inches, this is dimensionally limited and not area limited (ie you cant make a 6x1 board even though it is less area). Tricks on making the most of your layout? use surface mount components for all devices not making off board connections, they use less real-estate and permit dual side population if nessesary. Using SOIC form factor (.05" or 1/2 DIP) keeps the pin spacing to a managable size even when hand soldering.

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1+1=10

sharrestom

How do you folks like the package (other than size/layer limitations)?

I'm a MechEngr soon to be within the parallax world, and I have asked one of my friends, an RF Engineer, if he had heard of or had comment of the Eagle software. He only knows that a local assembly house (Reno) uses it for layout, but that the pricing of the pro package ($1200 for Layout, Capture and Routing modules) seemed very reasonable in comparison to PADS or the package that he uses (something like Powerlogics but I can't quite remember) that he bought off of a mutual acquaintance that didn't want to learn a new package.

I'm not ready for this, but, if I need to budget for this, I'd like to get some feedback on its user friendliness and limitations.

Thanks

tom

LoopyByteloose

I like it a lot.
It provides Gerber files which can be used by most services, but you are not dependent on a particular circuit board service's software for your own library. If you need to find another service, the files can just go without conversion.

It is easy to learn. I think the hardest part is to figure out what is available in the inventory of components.

The free version is all that many people will ever need and it can be used just to create schematics.

But, it doesn't have SPICE if you are really into engineering.

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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan

Bullwinkle

Yikes!

Thanks for all the input guys. My board is based on the schematic attached. There are 3 ICs, 9 capacitors, 28 resistors, 1 electrolytic capacitor, 1 bridge, 1 pot, 1 lithium battery, 1 oscillator, 6 optocouplers, 6 triacs, and 6 headers and one AC input (24 vac). I doubt I'm gonna fit all that on the 1/2 Euro board. I think I need to pay $50 for the full Euro board! Either that or divide the circuit into 2 ( or even 3 ) smaller boards and interconnect then with ribbon cable. The output stage with the optoisolators and triacs would have an ideal choice of one board, the other could accomodate the BS2, the shift register, the RTC and the LCD header and associated bits. I guess the power suppy (24 vac input) might be another small board.

Ideas? Is one BIG BOARD better than 2 or 3 smaller boards? I'm already finding the job of laying out components quite a daunting project in itself. I want to stick with single-sided boards for now. This is scary enough as it is!

BTW - What does "autoroute" do Kramer? At this stage I just switch to board view and just move components around. It's looks like a dogs breakfast, even after hours of mucking about!

Maybe I should consider using another CAD package? Should I move to another CAD package or keep plugging away with Eagle?

Post Edited (Bullwinkle) : 5/15/2006 12:22:37 PM GMT

sharrestom

Thanks Kramer,

My friend didn't think that the lack of an imbedded simulator would be much of a problem. I know of various SPICE versions, PSPICE being one. Whether any are better than others I find out later.

What's interesting in the long term, after I get my feet wet, is that my primary MCAD package, Pro/Engineer has an ECAD module included in the bundle that I purchased that facilitates converting component data and board layout to an accurate solids model. That data interface is one that I need confirm with the Eagle software.

I found this company that provides as a subscription service a "hint maps" library for ECAD that gives very detailed board models:

http://www.simplifiedsolutionsinc.com/

Kind of cool.

tom

LoopyByteloose

I think the $50 will be well spent.

If you look around at DIY printed circuit board material, you will find all the smallest boards are about the size of one Euro card [noparse][[/noparse]either 115mmx165mm or 100mmx150mm].

So, if you combine smaller projects, the art work can easily fit what you have to be working with. This really makes it easier to do several double sided board at the same time. Using two transparencies on one side is okay for single-sided boards, but is a hassle for the double sided.

I print transparencies on an ink jet and expose the board for 15-20 minutes under a 13watt flurecent desk lamp. Very primative, but if the image on the transparency is right, everything works very well. After exposing one side, I drill two of the holes at diagonally opposite extremes [noparse][[/noparse]this is done by hand with a pin vise and 1mm twist drill for better control]. Then when I flip over the board and set up to expose the second side. I get very tight registration by using the through holes as my guides.

Additionally, for your $50 you get more layers [noparse][[/noparse]I think at least 4] and the 4 layer board is becoming a real useful item for higher speeds. The middle two layers are used for ground and +5 or +3.3 to cut down EMI. While you cannot easily DIY those, again you can work with several board manufacturers. I suppose it is possilbe to print two double sided boards and glue them together, but the vias and through holes are funky.

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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan

Paul Baker

Bullwinkle, why no opt for some surface mount components? Keep the BS2 socket, and the headers as through hole, but use the SO-8 version of the DS1306, the SOIC version of the 595, and opto-isolators as well. Also use 805 or 1206/1210 surface mount resistors. All of these are quite do'able even for the novice solderer, SO/SOIC packages have twice as many pins in the same space (0.05" between pins instead of DIP's 0.1" spacing). That alone should be able to give you the space you need to fit everything on a board. My first PCB design, I used Eagle Lite; and on that board I had a 100 pin CPLD, a SX52, a 128K parallel memory (32 pin), a serial EEPROM, a FTDI USB chip (plus the crystal, USB plug and EEPROM), 2 5x2 pin headers, a 13x2 pin header, a 1x10 pin header, a 1x6 pin header, a 4 bit resistor ladder connected to a 2 pin header, 1x4 pin SX-Key header, an oscillator, switch, a couple glue logic chips, and a slew of resistors. All this was done on a 3x4" board, only 2 small chips were on the backside, and I had at least 1-2 sqin of unused space left on the top side of the board, and nothing was crowded on the board. For all those components, only the CPLD, the SX52 and the FTDI chip had pin spacing which was < SOIC (0.05").

There is a skill to laying out PCB designs, I probably spend a good 50 hours on that design (it was my first, Im much quicker at it now), place highly connected devices near the center, keep lines which are high speed short, and place things connected to each other as close and parallelely connected as possible, and place off board connections around the perimeter of the board.

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Post Edited (Paul Baker) : 5/15/2006 12:46:35 PM GMT

Bullwinkle

Thanks Paul,

I will see what effect switching to surface mounted caps and resistors has. A few questions though.

What is the SO-8 version of the DS1306?

What is the SOIC version of the 595 and opto-isolators?

What does 805, 1206 and 1210 mean in reference to surface mounted resistors? Size? Power rating?

Sorry if these are dumb questions. This is my first PCB...

Steve

Paul Baker

bullwinkle said...
thanks paul,

i will see what effect switching to surface mounted caps and resistors has. A few questions though.

What is the so-8 version of the ds1306?
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?detail?ref=82446&row=350154&site=us

what is the soic version of the 595 and opto-isolators?
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?detail?ref=83027&row=86406&site=us

the particular optoisolator you are using is a 0.1" (dip spacing) surface mount:
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?detail?ref=84001&row=26440&site=us
while this doesn't shrink it's footprint, it does permit dual side population

what does 805, 1206 and 1210 mean in reference to surface mounted resistors? Size? Power rating? size, 0805 is 2x1.25 mm, 1206 is 3.2x1.6 mm, 1210 is 3.2x2.5 mm

sorry if these are dumb questions. This is my first pcb... · they aren't dumb.

steve

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