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How is BS and it's family different from our remote controls, VCRs, DVD/CD Play — Parallax Forums

How is BS and it's family different from our remote controls, VCRs, DVD/CD Play

VladimirVladimir Posts: 64
edited 2006-04-21 15:47 in BASIC Stamp
I see that there are many things that you can do with the BS and its cousins, however, when I look through the junk that people throw out, I see that there are many other microchips and microcontrollers. I mean why don't companies use BSs in their projects?

Any ideas?

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Thanks,

Vladimir
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Comments

  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2006-04-21 04:11
    I'll tell you -- Chris, and Jon, and Chip, and Beau just gotta be reading your post with a lot of love, man.
  • Grant_OGrant_O Posts: 36
    edited 2006-04-21 04:48
    Heres an essay i wrote a while back for english class and its kind of about this subject.
    I got a B for it



    Programmable Logic Devices (PLDs) versus the
    industry of application-Specific Integrated Circuits (ASICs)

    In a level of digital logic, the world may see a change in its perspective on newer electronics. Companies such as Intel are changing their designs of microprocessors almost every year, In 1965, Intel’s Chairman Gordon Moore wrote, “the number of transistors per square inch on integrated circuits had doubled every year since the integrated circuit was invented”. Intel's Logic Technology Development group says, “Intel continues to break down the barriers of Moore's Law” (Intel). They now approach nearly a billion transistors per square inch. We’re familiar with engineers designing gigabit speed microscopic integrated circuits that use less power and are producing less heat then ever expected. And with this new foundation of technology it’s allowing consumers access to much smaller and more powerful electronic devices.

    When thinking of the evolution of the digital age, a simple mechanical device was able to do some of the functions that we now do silicon based. It was only in the 1940’s that IBM was using relay switches to do simple calculations; near the birth of binary. And in the 1970’s Intel announced their first microprocessor. And currently they can run their processors at over gigahertz speeds. Companies have packed entire system and mass storage onto a single microscopic sized chip. These chips push the line of speed and intelligence to new levels. Behind all of that there are integrated circuits, ICs. Subsequent to the microprocessor, these integrated circuits run the background.

    chips called application-specific integrated circuits, ASICs are custom engineered logical device meant specifically for a cretin tasks. Electronic design magazine says, “A full ASIC design usually results in delivering the smallest chip and best performance, it is often the most time-consuming and most expensive approach to select unless the volume will be large enough to offset the nonrecurring development costs” (Bursky). Usually the ASIC must be attached to a non-local form of Random Access Memory and be synchronized with a system clock, including other system components creating a large and complex board of specialized components. In a production sense, once these fixed logic ASICs are drawn up and sent for manufacturing, the design cannot easily be changed. If an ASIC fails due to a design flaw, or if a product is to be upgraded or changed, the entire ASIC and component board(s) must be redesigned resulting in Non-Recurring Engineering costs that are very expensive.

    However, there are Programmable Logic Devices, PLDs. They Behave similar to an ASIC but these devices contain features allowing them to run autonomous to other systems. The nature of the PLD is to have local memory, clocks and some may contain devices like digital to analog converters and vise verse, along with many other necessary functions. Instead of having to be custom built, PLDs are often over the shelf units. Taking the place of a larger more complex circuit, these units can be programmed to carryout the same functions as a fixed logic ASIC. Imagine it as a virtual ASIC programmed inside the PLD. There are Field Programmable Gate Array, FPGA, and Complex Programmable Logic Device, CPLD. During a prototyping stage of a device, the user can write a program to the PLD. This almost forms a virtual circuit by using the Program from its local memory through the microprocessor. The microprocessor then reads the commands and controls the flow of data through its input output, I/O pins while doing complex calculations and making decisions with near microsecond precision. If the result of a program does not work properly or does not satisfy the user, it can be easily erased and changed using simple software tools from his or her workstation computer or field equipment.

    There is a large decision that companies must soon make. and an even larger step the world could take. UK researchers believe, “any system should have full flexibility so that mis-processing or loss of useful data can be corrected. This argues against hard-wired ASIC solutions in favour of FPGAs” (UK Councils, Par 6). If a mass integration of PLDs is equipped on our modern technology, many companies may experience a cut in production costs, faster design times and much added reliability, flexibility and features. With the constant rate of growth in semiconductor density, the PLD’s microprocessor is predicted to soon outpace the current ASICs in speed. Gordon Moore reticently gave a speech at the 50th anniversary International Solid-State Circuits Conference, saying that, “no exponential is forever” (SSCS). He believes this rapid increase in density will plateau within the next decade or so.

    Though it might not be beneficial for a PLD to replace the modern microwave, they do hold a very versatile approach to many intelligent electronics. One achievement in use today is in the automotive field. Kvaser is a company currently designing the Controller Area Network CAN. They define it by saying “The CAN protocol is an ISO standard for serial data communication. The protocol was developed aiming at automotive applications”. They are now also focusing on industrial automation. It is apparent that the popularity of the PLD is growing, but many people are still unsure of which direction the future designs of PLDs will take us.

    The direction of future circuit design should focus more on programmable logic devices. A major advance in this field would allow more companies to become involved. And with the simplicity of writing logic, new ideas could be easily tested and crucial deadlines quickly met. This breakthrough is just around the corner. Engineers are finding cheaper and more precise ways to produce faster PLDs. Someday, programmable logic could replace the static hard-wired devices, pushing today’s physical difficulties of modern design into the limitless virtual arena of theoretical logic.

    Presently if you where to do a comparison of ASICs verses PLDs, the application-specific circuits would be somewhat faster and more reliable then programmable logic circuits. The method of designing and printing ASIC chips has been around for a while and has been perfected. Even if programmable logic chips do start to really take off, ASICs will never be fully eliminated. It would be a catastrophe if they where. Application-Spific style is a very important feature for some areas on a circuit board. The small functions on a circuit that never change or mission critical, high reliability areas should remain as ASICs.

    By: Grant O.

    Post Edited (Grant_O) : 4/21/2006 5:18:13 AM GMT
  • Grant_OGrant_O Posts: 36
    edited 2006-04-21 04:56
    Sorry·bout the size of that postnono.gif

    But I just had to do itsmilewinkgrin.gif
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2006-04-21 04:58
    There are a lot of companies using our products in theirs, but not in the consumer product market, I'm sure. Having designed a product for the consumer market (a sprinkler timer) I can tell you that there are wars over fractions of pennies -- cost is everything. The BASIC Stamp doesn't fit the cost model required for a consumer product. At the heart of the BASIC Stamp is a PIC (BS1, BS2) or SX (BS2e and others, Javelin) micro, and these chips are frequently used in consumer applications.

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    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
  • VladimirVladimir Posts: 64
    edited 2006-04-21 06:41
    thanks a lot jon

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    Thanks,

    Vladimir
    ·
  • allanlane5allanlane5 Posts: 3,815
    edited 2006-04-21 15:30
    What Jon said. When you're building a million of something, the $3,000 cost of the development system (give or take) used in putting a 'plain' PIC in the product is very low compared to the cost of buying the PIC's themselves (when each PIC processor can cost less than a dollar).

    Having a free development system doesn't help when each BS2 costs $50 (or even $30 for the OEM version), if you're building a million of them. However, when you're building one, or a few robots, having an ultra-reliable, ultra-simple controller like the BS2 is a huge benefit. And NOT having to pay the cost of the development system for these onesy-twosy applications makes a lot of sense.
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2006-04-21 15:47
    In my case, the company I worked for decided that time-to-market was more important that build cost because it was an industrial product with good margin. My BASIC Stamp proof-of-concept worked so well (a tribute to the BASIC Stamp) that we worked with Parallax to volume purchase the OEM BS2 interpreter and handled everything else ourselves.

    Product development always looks easy from the outside when viewing a finished product; having worked in product development for a giant corporation (Toro) and now for a small company, I can tell you that it's not. Product developers are faced with competing decisions at every turn. One can only hope that one makes decisions that will ultimately be best for all concerned.

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    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
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