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P64 package? — Parallax Forums

P64 package?

ElectronegativityElectronegativity Posts: 311
edited 2009-04-21 04:09 in Propeller 1
How will the 64 pin propeller will be packaged?

I am lobbying for the MQFP80. (80 pins, 20X14X2.7mm, .8mm pitch).

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I wonder if this wire is hot...

Comments

  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,255
    edited 2006-04-19 18:52
    I was just looking into this last night. I think it will go into an LQFP-100 14mm x 14mm x 1.4mm. We need to go to a 14x14 size body in order to accommodate the larger die. 80 pins would not be sufficient for power and ground connections, so the next step is 100 pins. There will be a lot of VDD and VSS pins, which will help keep the power quiet and the PLL's very stable.
    Electronegativity said...
    How will the 64 pin propeller will be packaged?

    I am lobbying for the MQFP80. (80 pins, 20X14X2.7mm, .8mm pitch).

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    Chip Gracey
    Parallax, Inc.
  • ElectronegativityElectronegativity Posts: 311
    edited 2006-04-19 19:44
    Hi Chip, thanks for the reply.

    I was hoping for something with a little wider pitch than .5mm though.

    Some of the TQFP100 packages have .65mm.

    Any chance of seeing something like that?

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    I wonder if this wire is hot...
  • cgraceycgracey Posts: 14,255
    edited 2006-04-19 20:08
    Well, I see now the 14mm x 20mm package on our vendor's chart. That would be bigger.

    Are you concerned about PCB trace/space requirements or soldering, or both?
    Electronegativity said...
    Hi Chip, thanks for the reply.

    I was hoping for something with a little wider pitch than .5mm though.

    Some of the TQFP100 packages have .65mm.

    Any chance of seeing something like that?

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    Chip Gracey
    Parallax, Inc.
  • ElectronegativityElectronegativity Posts: 311
    edited 2006-04-19 20:31
    Both.

    I am currently manufacturing and hand soldering my own printed curcuit boards.

    I've had some success with the SSOP SX28's (like the one shown in my avatar), but 100 pins of .5mm pitch is pretty intimidating for people at my level.

    .65mm would still be tough, but at least there would be a little room to breath.

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    I wonder if this wire is hot...
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2006-04-19 21:42
    You know whats funny? I have a harder time soldering 0.65mm pitch components than 0.50mm pitch. The extra time required to heat each pin on the 0.65mm pins for me leads to more bridges. With 0.50 pitch the pins heat so fast I can just swipe a side and minimize the amount of solder each pin gets, but thats just my personal experience. Flux is your best friend when soldering surface mount components.

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    1+1=10
  • ElectronegativityElectronegativity Posts: 311
    edited 2006-04-19 21:49
    Hi Paul.

    I guess I'll have to try and see.
    There is still the issue of making the board though, and aligning the chip properly on the traces.
    Also the smaller traces are more likely to burn or lift off the board, and it only takes one of those to ruin your day.

    I will start a poll to see what other people think.

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    I wonder if this wire is hot...
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2006-04-19 23:04
    I gave up trying to hand solder SMD parts. 'Too many tombstoned resistors and fine-pitch parts that slip off their pads if you so much as look at them wrong. So I bought an infrared toaster oven for about $99 (photo attached), and life is good. I use a syringe of RMA-fluxed solder paste that I get from DigiKey with a super-fine plastic nozzle. Just a little dab on each pad or a line across a row of pads is all it takes. Then place the parts with tweezers. The paste helps them stay put. Once all the parts are on, it's into the oven for 2.5 min. at 285°F, then 1.0 min. at 460°F. The IR heating elements provide rapid temperature excursions, which work better overall than the elements in cheaper toaster ovens.

    It's amazing how sloppy the pasting can be and still produce clean joints and well-aligned parts. Surface tension is your friend! There're usually a few solder bridges that have to be removed, but solder wick makes that easy. Then there's the occasional solder ball that needs to be flicked off. Finally, a good scrubbing with 95% isopropyl alcohol and a toothbrush, and you're done.

    -Phil
    IR_Oven.jpg
    800 x 711 - 67K
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2009-04-20 16:37
    Is the 64pin prop still going ahead? [noparse]:)[/noparse]
    I thought it was on hold, as the price for the software fix was to expensive ;(
    It would be a great bonus if it was going ahead, especially with the projects that use extra SRAM [noparse]:)[/noparse]

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    http://www.propgfx.co.uk/forum/·home of the PropGFX Lite

    ·
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2009-04-20 16:47
    Is this re PropII or the Prop B version? I am presuming PropII is still a year away.

    I am now thinking that there seems a lot of interest with SRAM and these extra pins may make the Prop B a viable option. The SRAM could be placed on the B port together with an SD/microSD card, leaving the A port for all the existing things. And there are a lot of other things that could be done with the extra pins.

    Would it be viable at say US$13 ?

    My preference would be to not go tighter than 0.65mm pin spacing. It's a shame it won't fit into an 84 pin package.

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    Links to other interesting threads:

    · Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, SixBladeProp, website (Multiple propeller pcbs)
    · Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
    · Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
    · Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index)
    · Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
    My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2009-04-20 16:52
    This is not a recently-started thread, BTW. The forum software has got the dates messed up. My prior post here must be at least a year or two old.

    -Phil
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2009-04-20 17:00
    Aha. Wondered why I missed it in the first place - I was looking for the Prop B thread. Anyway, this will do for now.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Links to other interesting threads:

    · Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, SixBladeProp, website (Multiple propeller pcbs)
    · Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
    · Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
    · Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index)
    · Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
    My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
  • BaggersBaggers Posts: 3,019
    edited 2009-04-20 17:20
    ah that'd explain it [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    http://www.propgfx.co.uk/forum/·home of the PropGFX Lite

    ·
  • StefanL38StefanL38 Posts: 2,292
    edited 2009-04-20 18:27
    Hello Chip,

    It's OK that the Prop II comes in a LQFP-100 14mm x 14mm x 1.4mm-package

    Will parallax provide an adpaterboard that spreads the PIN to 1/10 inch that it can be used in standard breadboards or dot-copper-PCBs ?

    best regards

    Stefan
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2009-04-21 02:11
    If Parallax doesn't, I am sure someone will pick this up smile.gif

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Links to other interesting threads:

    · Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, SixBladeProp, website (Multiple propeller pcbs)
    · Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
    · Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
    · Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index)
    · Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
    My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-04-21 04:09
    i have already promised to make a break out board for $10+parts if no one else can do it cheaper.

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    Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
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