How durable are the treads that are sold on this site? I read alot of posts about how people are finding treads from other sources. Are these not holding up as well?
"Durable"? Well, these are 'tank-treads' that are used indoors, or outdoors under nice conditions. We're not talking about hulking great steel links, we're talking about rubber or plastic.
They might not last as long as wheels, but mostly because with treads a BOE-Bot can go places wheels wouldn't go. And we are talking about a small, battery powered robot. Usually people's interest wanes before the hardware wears out.
Oh, and the "Tamiya" tank tread kit is popular, as is the "Hummer with Treads" found at Radio Shack.· And Parallax offers their own kit for the BOE-Bot.
There are quite durable treads out there. I saw some for about $200US. Though I like them, I need motors, motor controllers, and batteries to match.
If you really intend to develop a workhorse robot and carry a payload, you need to commit to such expense.
If you are into developing software and need a go-anywhere prototype with good traction and adapted to the BOE-bot chassis, you really don't need such heavy duty. In fact it may be too much extra weight for the balance between chassis, motors, and batteries.
A robot is group of balanced systems. When the right mix is together, you get an efficent, useful device.
But it all starts with your purpose. One can easily spend $1000USD on a extremely durable platform.
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
While these treads provide more traction than the wheels, I was disappointed in them because the treads could slip around or off their support wheels. The main cog for the tread is a replacement for the wheel, and this cog contains a spikes that insert into holes in the tread much like a bicycle sprocket spikes insert into the bicycle chain and transfer energy to moving the chain. The treads can slip around the main cog in the unit purchased off the site if there is enough resistance. If a chain slipped on my bicycle, I could loosen the nuts on the back wheel of the bike, pull, and tighten the chain around the sprocket. In my humble opinion, that type of ability is needed in the boe-bot tread system. If the treads slip there is no channel in the shaft of any of the tread support wheels to tighten thus increasing the tension between the main cog and tread. I like the looks and the treads are neat moving in the house, but I doubt they will conquer many sticks in the yard.
One of the major problems we see is that people are stretching the treads out when they remove them from the plastic (the flash)- Dave A. has built MANY of these kits here, and we've yet to have them slip off...
Ryan
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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support
·· I had a set when they first became available before I worked at Parallax and I have used them a lot indoors and outdoors and they still aren't loose or having any problems.· Plus we have demos that go to schools and such and also have no issues with them.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Chris Savage Parallax Tech Support csavage@parallax.com
When I put the treads on, my first thought was that they they need to include some shorter lengths because mine were a couple of segments too long.
Then I thought, Woudn't it be great if the mounting bracket had an adjustable slot so we could tension the treads to keep them from falling off. So, I attempted to make such a slot but it didn't work out so well.
Wasn't there a thread about this awhile back, maybe on Yahoo? I remember there was a discussion about how there needs to be some way to adjust the sprocket or·tensioners.
·· There·was a thread about this some time ago.· In the end it seems the few people whose tank-treads I have seen that were in fact loose were using some of the wrong parts from the kit.· The treads should all be the same length and the metal all cut the same way.· Although I remember a customer who had loose treads and I found that his metal side panels were bent slightly not only making the treads loose but not line up properly and they came off quite easily.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Chris Savage Parallax Tech Support csavage@parallax.com
Kenny,
If and when you really ever do need tightening, the kit came with extra wheels.
It is possible to mount two of those on axle and have them bear down on the tread from above.
But, the reality is mine fit fine and as long as I don't abuse them with heavy loads, accidentaly step on it, and maintain the free spin on the wheels-- everything will be A-okay for a long time.
I think good heavy duty treads would be something I could stand on and not break.
In between is something that would carry 10-30 pounds of load.
These are obviously not in those classes. After all the BOEbot chassic cannot support 10-30 pounds with servo axles or in any of its configurations. The design is balanced within the range of the chassis and the motors. Not too much, not too little
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
I would like to retract a reply that I posted about my disappointmnet with the treads! I read Kramer's suggestion of using the extra wheels in the kit to add tension to the treads. I starting implementing that suggestion when I noticed that the spike wheel was closer to the frame than any of the support wheels. I had mounted the servos on the inside of the frame. I read the manual, and sure enough it instructs the users to mount the servo on the outside of the frame. I had a student install the treads, noticed that the treads we not rotating smoothly, but never double checked the work. I reinstalled the servos with on the outside of the frame, and it now the treads work pretty darn cool.
BTW, Xerox spent millions of dollars in the 1960s on research into how to write good documentation.
They had noticed that while their copiers were selling well, support was becoming and every growing problem.
No matter what they wrote, no one seemed to either understand it or read it.
In the end, one research document presented an accurate explanation.
95% of all people PREFER to ask someone, rather than to read the documentation in detail.
I suppose that is why the Forum is so popular.
I try to help. I am not always right. And, sometimes I completely misread what you want. But in the end, the dialogue is really what gets to the solution.
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
·When I first tried out my Tank Treads I also had trouble with them coming off the wheels.· As long as I ran them on a smooth hard floor they worked just fine though.· When I ran them on carpet they came off in turning.· I did manage to fix the problem·with a·change in code.· When the treads came off it was when trying to make a large turn that was greater than around 15°, so I tried making small turns that were no greater then 15°·then going straight for·a short distance·and then turning again, and that solved the problem.·
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"Time is nature's way of making sure that everything does not happen all at once."
I had the same problem with my treads... there was way too much slack and they kept on derailing when the BOEbot turned... I checked and rechecked my set up and was very discouraged. As a last ditch effort, I took out my heat gun, put in on "low" and very, very, very carefully applied heat over the treads. I put them back on and found that they were "snug as a bug in a rug"!
I have no idea what possessed me to try such a thing, but it worked!
So if you have loose treads, try this trick (just be real careful!... you don't want to melt the rubber treads, just have them shrink a bit!)
Steve:
I had the exact same problem as you. Doing a spin guarantees a derailment on any surface. I was going to add an idler/tensioner from some spare Tamiya parts (yes, the boe-bot treads are Tamiya) I have left over but I'll give the heat-gun trick a try.
I actually had ordered a replacement set of tracks (and idlers) from Tower Hobbies (would have gotten them from Parallax, but they were OOS (and I really just needed the Tamiya parts (not the mounting plates). Although I "solved" the problem, I will continue to play around with several different configurations (now that I will have two sets of treads and idlers)... will advise of the "best" solution once I have a chance to try few different set ups.
I don't think you could complete the modification for under $100. Probably more. Lynx is proud of their stuff. The heavier duty weight might be a problem for the Parallax servos too.
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(Frequently heard from other's)
Tommy, I know it wasn't designed to·x, but can you make it·do x·anyway?
I started using one of the extra wheels to add tension to the treads about a year ago.. it helps but more then anything I think the serface you run them on makes the biggest difference. on the tile floor in my home I have no problems. on concret, no problems, on carpet ... thats where the treads start falling off when turning in place.
I studyed this a little.. and the problem is one side always dominates when truning . this makes sence becasue how many of your bots servos are percectly balanced.. i actually have to run mine and 703 and 850(not 650 and 850) to get the bot to go stright. so.. if I turn the bot at 850 and 850.. now one of the servos is going faster then the other and i get a kind of binding. its systematic and different for each bot.. so.. I started building/programing a short stright into the turns. so.. the bot truns with one motor going one way and the other going the other.. just like normal but after about 15 degrees i send the bot forward about 3 inches.. this releaces the binding effect on the treads then I turn another 15 degrees..
this is a pain, I agree. but im open to any other methods/ideas
also.. on carpet..you can not turn your bot with one servo on and the other off.. it binds up much quicker.
and yes .. im have the servos on the outside[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Yes, carpet is the problem... on my hardwood floors, no problem; on low-pile carpet, it derails.· I was able to obtain significant improvement with the "heat gun" trick... I can make two to three complete revolutions now on carpet with no issue!
There are actually more sources then one would realize for tank tread, even making your own if the project warrents.· Here is a reasonable alternative from VEX Robotics: VEX Robotic Tank Treads.
Does the shape of the chassis have much to do with whether the tracks derail?· I have npt built a bot yet but I am trying to keep the chassis as square as possible.· It would seem that a square frame would put less side force on the tracks.· Anyone have any experience that could tell me if that is true?
I am not an engineer, but it would seem to reason that the chasis is not what·matters... it is making sure that the wheels are all aligned vertical and on the same plane
Comments
They might not last as long as wheels, but mostly because with treads a BOE-Bot can go places wheels wouldn't go. And we are talking about a small, battery powered robot. Usually people's interest wanes before the hardware wears out.
Oh, and the "Tamiya" tank tread kit is popular, as is the "Hummer with Treads" found at Radio Shack.· And Parallax offers their own kit for the BOE-Bot.
If you really intend to develop a workhorse robot and carry a payload, you need to commit to such expense.
If you are into developing software and need a go-anywhere prototype with good traction and adapted to the BOE-bot chassis, you really don't need such heavy duty. In fact it may be too much extra weight for the balance between chassis, motors, and batteries.
A robot is group of balanced systems. When the right mix is together, you get an efficent, useful device.
But it all starts with your purpose. One can easily spend $1000USD on a extremely durable platform.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
One of the major problems we see is that people are stretching the treads out when they remove them from the plastic (the flash)- Dave A. has built MANY of these kits here, and we've yet to have them slip off...
Ryan
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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support
RClarke@Parallax.com
Mine all slipped off, as well.
I tried to drill some adjustment holes in the bracket but ended up making a mess.
The bracket definitely needs to provide a method to thighten the treads.
Kenny
·· I had a set when they first became available before I worked at Parallax and I have used them a lot indoors and outdoors and they still aren't loose or having any problems.· Plus we have demos that go to schools and such and also have no issues with them.
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
csavage@parallax.com
Interesting.
When I put the treads on, my first thought was that they they need to include some shorter lengths because mine were a couple of segments too long.
Then I thought, Woudn't it be great if the mounting bracket had an adjustable slot so we could tension the treads to keep them from falling off. So, I attempted to make such a slot but it didn't work out so well.
Wasn't there a thread about this awhile back, maybe on Yahoo? I remember there was a discussion about how there needs to be some way to adjust the sprocket or·tensioners.
Kenny
·· There·was a thread about this some time ago.· In the end it seems the few people whose tank-treads I have seen that were in fact loose were using some of the wrong parts from the kit.· The treads should all be the same length and the metal all cut the same way.· Although I remember a customer who had loose treads and I found that his metal side panels were bent slightly not only making the treads loose but not line up properly and they came off quite easily.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
csavage@parallax.com
If and when you really ever do need tightening, the kit came with extra wheels.
It is possible to mount two of those on axle and have them bear down on the tread from above.
But, the reality is mine fit fine and as long as I don't abuse them with heavy loads, accidentaly step on it, and maintain the free spin on the wheels-- everything will be A-okay for a long time.
I think good heavy duty treads would be something I could stand on and not break.
In between is something that would carry 10-30 pounds of load.
These are obviously not in those classes. After all the BOEbot chassic cannot support 10-30 pounds with servo axles or in any of its configurations. The design is balanced within the range of the chassis and the motors. Not too much, not too little
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
ChemistyKen
They had noticed that while their copiers were selling well, support was becoming and every growing problem.
No matter what they wrote, no one seemed to either understand it or read it.
In the end, one research document presented an accurate explanation.
95% of all people PREFER to ask someone, rather than to read the documentation in detail.
I suppose that is why the Forum is so popular.
I try to help. I am not always right. And, sometimes I completely misread what you want. But in the end, the dialogue is really what gets to the solution.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
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Larry
"Time is nature's way of making sure that everything does not happen all at once."
I have no idea what possessed me to try such a thing, but it worked!
So if you have loose treads, try this trick (just be real careful!... you don't want to melt the rubber treads, just have them shrink a bit!)
I had the exact same problem as you. Doing a spin guarantees a derailment on any surface. I was going to add an idler/tensioner from some spare Tamiya parts (yes, the boe-bot treads are Tamiya) I have left over but I'll give the heat-gun trick a try.
Randy
www.lynxmotion.com/Category.aspx?CategoryID=94
It would be great if Parallax would redesign the Boe-Bot Tank Tread kit to use the Lynxmotion treads.
Kenny
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(Frequently heard from other's)
Tommy, I know it wasn't designed to·x, but can you make it·do x·anyway?
·
I studyed this a little.. and the problem is one side always dominates when truning . this makes sence becasue how many of your bots servos are percectly balanced.. i actually have to run mine and 703 and 850(not 650 and 850) to get the bot to go stright. so.. if I turn the bot at 850 and 850.. now one of the servos is going faster then the other and i get a kind of binding. its systematic and different for each bot.. so.. I started building/programing a short stright into the turns. so.. the bot truns with one motor going one way and the other going the other.. just like normal but after about 15 degrees i send the bot forward about 3 inches.. this releaces the binding effect on the treads then I turn another 15 degrees..
this is a pain, I agree. but im open to any other methods/ideas
also.. on carpet..you can not turn your bot with one servo on and the other off.. it binds up much quicker.
and yes .. im have the servos on the outside[noparse]:)[/noparse]
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Muahdib
IC layout designer
Phoenix Arizona
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Gary
Chief Robotman
Retrofire - Rockets & Robots
www.retrofire.com
Ed