A Miracle Chip?

william chan

Yesterday somebody asked me this question.

1. How did Parallax, a primarily board design company, managed to create the Propeller which seems to supercede the IP3K, the latest and third generation
processor in so many ways? Is it possible?

I don't know the answer......

Paul Baker

Because they have a mad-genius working behind the scene who is perfectly comfortable throwing away industry standard methods in search of better alternatives. Large companies with many employees are risk adverse and stick with what they already know, even if its not the best way to do things. For example Microsoft should have dumped the concept of backwards-compatibility a long time ago, instead they carry the baggage from the past (and all past mistakes) with them. They tried to overcome this but basing XP off of NT, but they just traded one set of baggage for another.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
·1+1=10

Post Edited (Paul Baker) : 2/22/2006 5:42:47 PM GMT

Jon Williams

The greatest thing about Chip is that he's a real regular guy. When he was single I used to stay at his house on my visits to Rocklin. We stayed up a lot of late nights playing video games (he slaughters me at Halo) and talking about electronics. When it comes to creating cool stuff, he is very passionate, and as Paul indicated, Chip marches to his own beat. What is mostly unknown is that during the development of the Stamp 1 he went a bit into hiding to focus on that -- and we all know where the [noparse][[/noparse]hobbyist microcontroller] world is due to that little controller. Just imagine where we'll be in a few years when Propellers are "flying" all over the place....

You seem to be a "doubting Thomas" William -- perhaps you should make a visit to our office to see the Propeller for yourself. It'll be worth the trip, I promise.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Jon Williams
Applications Engineer, Parallax

Post Edited (Jon Williams (Parallax)) : 2/22/2006 5:15:45 PM GMT

Paul Baker

Yeah sorry, Chip doesn't fit the typical mad-genius profile of being disheveled and anti-social, he is very friendly and likes to engage you in conversation. When I first met him we talked for more than a half hour about patents and·IP issues, and traded horror stories from our sides of the issue.

And I can vouch for visiting Parallax, my head is still whirling, if you're lucky Chip will take you to see his lab, very very cool.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
·1+1=10

Post Edited (Paul Baker) : 2/22/2006 5:18:24 PM GMT

william chan

This is truly an amazing story.

I mean this Chip Gracey does R&D for 8 years before coming up with a product.
His must be the greatest job in the world.

Over here, if you can't come up with something in 9 months, it's time to look for another job.

Paul Baker

Theres a huge combination of factors that made it possible, I wont go into all of them, but one of the biggest was Parallax already has a core business that isn't in the microcontroller design field.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
·1+1=10

Post Edited (Paul Baker) : 2/22/2006 5:42:31 PM GMT

Jon Williams

I wouldn't call them "problems" Paul, it's just that Chip [noparse][[/noparse]has always] wanted more opportunities for himself and our customers.

And I think you're being a little unfair, William -- do you think that eight man-years is outrageous for a ground-breaking technology like the Propeller? I think not. What kind of completely new technologies (not products built with existing technology) are being created in nine months?· And had Intel or another big chip vendor wanted to create the Propeller, how many staff would they devote to the task?· Tens, if not hundreds, I'm guessing, and the development cycle would still be protracted (mostly due to settle technical disagreements amongst team members).

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Jon Williams
Applications Engineer, Parallax

Post Edited (Jon Williams (Parallax)) : 2/22/2006 5:39:05 PM GMT

Martin Hebel

One other interesting fact about Chip is that he never had any formal engineering training. It would have ruined his creativity. If that 9 months/8years is meant as a slam, how long did it take Intel to evolve from the 8085 to the Pentium? Chip skipped all the lowly versions and went for the stars directly based only on his creativity and ability to be self-taught.

william chan

Why is his name "Chip"?
Is it a nickname b'cos he's always trying to design chips?

Martin Hebel

I don't know the whole story, but assume it goes back to fascination with controllers as kid. He wrote the 1st PIC Assembler while in High School (if I remember correctly), which microship bought from him, then developed some hardware for some early computers, and is considered one of the world's best 386 ASM programmers. Maybe someone can link to a bio.

-Martin

Jeff Martin

Hi everyone,

I think you're reading into William Chan's comments more that what is there. I don't think he is slamming the fact that it took 8 years... he's slamming the fact that most companies don't have the opportunity to do such things because of pressures from other avenues.

I take his comments as a compliment, really.

Look at this as a positive, not a negative.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
--Jeff Martin

· Sr. Software Engineer
· Parallax, Inc.

Jon Williams

That is an ironic twist of fate... perhaps the nickname lead him to his profession (and thank Goodness for that!).· His given name is Charles, but in all the time I've known him I've never heard anyone call him that, not even his parents.

william chan said...
Why is his name "Chip"?
Is it a nickname b'cos he's always trying to design chips?

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Jon Williams
Applications Engineer, Parallax

Gadgetman

I think William started out on the wrong premise.

At least I have never considered Parallax 'primarily a board design company'.
Sure, you guys design some nifty boards, but that's just coincidental(you need something to put the chips on).

In fact, I doubt that there's a good one or two-word description of what you do as you do so much and so well.
you make great development-tools, both software AND hardware, you build all kind of nice modules for our projects, you're the distributors of the SX chips, you're educators, and a lot of the work you even give us for FREE!

The closest I can come in comparison is the oldtime home-computer companies of the eighties, but even they never gave away so much.

Remember Commodore?
Not only did they make computers, and had custom chips designed for them, but they also bought up MOS Technologies who made the 6502 processor they based their computers on, then went on to create new versions of the processor.
(The fact that Commodore went under, was sold, sold again, and again... and is now just a brand to peddle old 8bit games under is something we won't mention, though)

In fact most of those oldtimers had custom chips designed for them.

The only difference now is that it's cheaper, relatively speaking, to create custom chips and have them manufactured.
(Anyone ever opened one of the earlier Sinclair ZX Spectrums would find a small PCB and wires smack in the middle of the PCB. This was because there was a production-flaw in the first batch of the 'ULA' chip they had made, and rather than tossing them, they added what was affectionately known as 'the dead cockroach')

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Don't visit my new website...

LoopyByteloose

How?

Passion, Vision, and the ablity to be likable enough to motivate others to do their best.

I have to admire those qualities. Wish I had more of each.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan

Ken Peterson

I wish I lived closer to Rocklin. If I ever get out that way, I'm definitely going to see about visiting Parallax.

I also started out on a Timex Sinclair back in 1981!

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔

Oldbitcollector (Jeff)

Even being an old thread.. I've got to add my own explanation...

I strongly suspect that the Propeller was modeled after exterrestrial technology confiscated
the the Roswell crash. It's the only logical way to explain how it's so good.

<SMIRK>

OBC

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
New to the Propeller?

Getting started with the Protoboard? - Propeller Cookbook 1.4
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card? - PropDOS
A Living Propeller FAQ - The Propeller Wiki
(Got the Knowledge? Got a Moment? Add something today!)

Bean

Parallax has learned the secret to inovation.
When someone is passionate about something, the best thing to do is give them direction then LEAVE THEM ALONE.
Most big businesses just can't seem to resist micro-managing a talented person until all the passion has been beat out of them.
Meetings...Approvals...Deadlines...Reports...Etc... These are the things that kill inovation.

Bean.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Did you know that 111,111,111 multiplied by 111,111,111 equals 12345678987654321 ?

www.iElectronicDesigns.com

·

Agent420

This whole thing reminds me of a new guitar fx processor I recently purchased...··· In a market of look alike products where the design is influenced more by the bean counters than the engineer, Cliff Chase of Fractal Audio went against the trend and created a technical breakthrough product that appears to have virtually no competion...· So much so that the wait for orders is measured in the span of several months... and keeps growing by nothing more than word of mouth.

He's a 'regular guy' as well, often contributing in the forums there, and his story sounds a lot like Chip's...

http://www.fractalaudio.com


Goes to show that innovation and providing consumers with what they want can pay off in the end, though I'm sure the business side of things is more difficult than it appears...

Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL)

At the age of 13 In 1981 Chip Gracey had his first major introduction to programming and electronics: the Timex Sinclair computer. Chip's

Complete Story:
www.parallax.com/tabid/438/Default.aspx

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Aka: CosmicBob

william chan

How about we hold a worldwide celebration party when Propeller II appears?

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
www.fd.com.my
www.mercedes.com.my