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No more whining about the cost of SX programmer. — Parallax Forums

No more whining about the cost of SX programmer.

BeanBean Posts: 8,129
edited 2006-02-18 08:40 in General Discussion
Parallax just released the SX-Blitz for only $29.00 !
Holy Smile, it's less that's a BS2 !
I see lots of new SX programmers in the future....

http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=45170

Bean.


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"SX-Video·Module" Now available from Parallax for only $28.95

http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30012

"SX-Video OSD module" Now available from Parallax for only·$49.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30015

Product web site: www.sxvm.com

"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there."
·

Comments

  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2006-02-15 08:15
    It is far less than most assembled PIC programmers too.
    [noparse][[/noparse]Even if you just build one from the ground up, you might find it hard to stay under that.]

    Consider buying it as a Production work horse and save the SX-Key for analytical work.

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    "When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

    ······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
  • T&E EngineerT&E Engineer Posts: 1,396
    edited 2006-02-15 11:28
    I never knew that Parallax even sold the SX-Blitz just the SX-Key. I was under the impression that the SX-Blitz was an outdated product later replaced by the SX-Key. Probably just an assumpsion.

    This is certainly good news for potential SX developers like Bean stated.

    Is there any quick method to tell the difference between them?

    Thanks.
  • PJMontyPJMonty Posts: 983
    edited 2006-02-15 11:35
    The SXBlitz can only program chips. In order to use the SX on-chip hardware debugging, you need an SX key. You can still do development work with the Blitz, it's just that you give up the really cool hardware assisted debugging. You basically program the chip, run it to see if your program works, and if (when) it doesn't, you scour the code looking for the problems and then program the chip again with the new version.
      Thanks, PeterM
  • T&E EngineerT&E Engineer Posts: 1,396
    edited 2006-02-15 11:40
    Thanks Peter but I already knew the difference about them in their functionality from a past post with Guenther.

    What I was interested in was how to visually tell them apart?

    I also wasn't able to find any other link to the SX-Blitz on the Parallax site other than what Bean provided. Perhaps this is premature at the moment to release.

    Thanks for the update Peter.
  • PJMontyPJMonty Posts: 983
    edited 2006-02-15 12:32
    Gotcha. They basically look the same from the front, just one has a few more parts than the other if I recall. The quickest way to tell the difference is from the back - one says "SX-Key" and the other says "SX-Blitz".
      Thanks, PeterM
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2006-02-15 13:11
    Why not add a·color code?

    If you are worried, you can always put a band of color shrink wrap insulation over one or the other.
    [noparse][[/noparse]They do look quite similar at a glance]

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    "When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

    ······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan

    Post Edited (Kramer) : 2/15/2006 3:58:32 PM GMT
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2006-02-15 18:31
    The SX-Blitz is also shorter by a little over 1/4".

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    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • Guenther DaubachGuenther Daubach Posts: 1,321
    edited 2006-02-15 18:51
    ...and it has an USB connector instead of a DB-9 (like the SX-Key), so color-coding is not really necessary (and would not be very helpful in complete darkness smile.gif .

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    Greetings from Germany,

    G
  • Mike CookMike Cook Posts: 829
    edited 2006-02-15 19:10
    Looks like it has a serial connector to me!

    Anyway I'll be adding one to my next order, can always use a spare for programming.

    Mike

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    "OEM NMEA GPS Module" Now available on ebay for only $17.49

    Product web site: http://www.allsurplus.net/Axiom/
  • PJMontyPJMonty Posts: 983
    edited 2006-02-16 04:44
    I'm curious why there is such concern for being able to differentiate between the Sx-Blitz and the Sx-Key at a glance? Is there some sort of "Guess the SX programming device" contest I'm unaware of? What's the worst that happens if you plug the wrong one in? The absolute worst is that when you go to debug, the SX-Key IDE tells you that this function is not supported on the SX-Blitz. At that point, you plug the right one in and go back to work. What exactly is the issue here? This all feels like a solution in search of a problem...
      Thanks, PeterM
  • T&E EngineerT&E Engineer Posts: 1,396
    edited 2006-02-16 11:21
    I just asked a simple question on how to tell them apart visually. I have·two SX-Keys (one of which is damaged and now acts as an SX-Blitz). I see from the posts that they are 1/4" shorter and from the picture it looks like there is an oscillator missing and another surface mount IC (maybe more) - from the SX-Blitz. I know that Parallax makes excellent·technological products and I stand by them to promote to my company and friends. I was hoping to just learn a little more about the SX-Blitz as it seems to me at least to be a product once sold and is now being brought back to life.

    However, on another note...

    I have really been trying·not to create any controversial questions but It seems like·no mater what I ask, someone has a problem or questions me·back·with what I·write.

    This is getting a bit trying on me.
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2006-02-16 12:17
    Timothy,
    I sorry to hear about that.

    Part of the problem may be that it is very difficult to determine someone's "feeling" just by written text. What may sound to everyone else like a poster is upset or complainting may not be the case.

    Unless someone is blatent in their text. I try not to read too much into it. Just take it for face value, and assume they meant it in the best possible way. Because maybe they did.

    Bean.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    "SX-Video·Module" Now available from Parallax for only $28.95

    http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30012

    "SX-Video OSD module" Now available from Parallax for only·$49.95
    http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30015

    Product web site: www.sxvm.com

    "Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there."
    ·
  • T&E EngineerT&E Engineer Posts: 1,396
    edited 2006-02-16 12:35
    Thanks Bean!

    I appreciate your wise words. Sometimes I feel like my questions get me into more trouble with people then·my·original good intent·with the·effort that went into them. I will try to just watch and observe for a while.

    Thanks.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2006-02-16 14:58
    Well.... You can color code the damaged one which acts like an SX-Blitz.
    After all, it still programs.

    I personally think that Paralllax could consider making them different color boards.· After all, they do that with the BasicStamps and it really cuts down on confusion at the bench and on the Net.

    After hours of trying to sort out technical details, I need all the clarity I can get.

    I didn't know the new SX-Blitz is only USB and 1/4" is often no very noticible to many.
    I have been look at old photos somewhere [noparse][[/noparse]maybe some old documents around here].

    Lead Test Engineer,
    No need to feel such. Parallax support is so generous that I sometimes get the same feelings. I could spend hours explaining the linguistics that get us all tangled up, but that belongs on another web site.

    Simply put, guys here are generally very tolerant and want to help. We all goof or get annoyed once in a while.

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    "When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

    ······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan

    Post Edited (Kramer) : 2/16/2006 3:01:23 PM GMT
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2006-02-16 18:32
    The Blitz and the Key are the same color and it's really not a big deal because one generally would know what they have plugged into their system.· The difference between them is simple, yet critical: The Blitz can only program the SX, it lacks the clock generator circuitry that allows you to run and to live debugging of the SX.·

    Students will find the SX-Blitz and Guenther's SX-Sim a great, low-cost package for SX development.

    I've attached a pic of the current SX-Key and Blitz -- you can see that the Blitz is shorter and missing a few components that are found on the Key.

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    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
    SX-Key and Blitz.JPG
    640 x 479 - 79K
  • T&E EngineerT&E Engineer Posts: 1,396
    edited 2006-02-16 18:53
    Jon,

    You have come through again!

    This is very clear now.·If one had both of them one would know·what would be what by the sheer size difference.

    Thanks!
  • David BDavid B Posts: 592
    edited 2006-02-16 22:22
    I have both the Key and the Blitz. Even though I had them both for a while, I never actually set them side by side to compare them, and also never realized that they had a size difference.

    And before I knew they were different lengths, I made a wire-wrap board with programming pins positioned so the Key would sit flat on the board when fully inserted into the programming pins, with its D connector right at the board edge, but hanging off the edge.

    But then I found that the Blitz, being shorter, would not fit while flat on the board - it had to have its D connector wedged up on top of the board in order to be fully inserted.

    That was what taught me that the two devices are different lengths, and gives an example of where the size difference between the two may matter.
  • PJMontyPJMonty Posts: 983
    edited 2006-02-17 02:41
    David,

    Since you owned both a Blitz and a Key, when you discovered the error in the board, what did you do? Did you re-make the PCB, costing hundreds or thousands of dollars (depending on the number of boards made) or did you use the Key (which you already owned) to program the boards, thus costing absolutely nothing?

    I also curious, did you buy the Blitz first or the Key?
      Thanks, PeterM
  • Michael ChadwickMichael Chadwick Posts: 80
    edited 2006-02-17 03:07
    This may be a little off topic, but I have an older rev E. key, the one with the coax cable to DB9 connector.· I lug it all over the world in my laptop case.· It gets beat up a fair bit.· Very nice on the desktop for development, I can use a really short USB to serial adapter with it, which keeps the clutter down.

    I noticed recently that·the little inductor that generates the programming voltage is cracked on top.···Any chance of Parallax selling some replacement inductors?·

    So far it still seems to be working ok, with the possible exception of some debugging funnies occasionally.· But I'm fairly certain one of these days the whole top of the inductor is going to fracture off, which seems like it might cause a problem.

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    MRC
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2006-02-17 08:22
    Epoxy is your friend.
    A drop or two might keep it going for a long time. Use a toothpick to apply.

    Generally Parallax is pretty good about things like this.
    After all good customer service generates repeat business.

    While they might not want to tell you what it is, they might just send you one.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Oh Jon!. You said the magic word -- STUDENTS.

    If anyone needs two different colors, it is a teacher. Students will get it wrong almost 50% of the time. Teaching is about getting people to notice, because they don't know exactly what to notice or how things might differ.

    I can see the difference, but give me a class of 25 and it might take all day to get them to understand.· Please forgive me for being so pedantic.

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    "When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

    ······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
  • David BDavid B Posts: 592
    edited 2006-02-17 17:20
    Peter,

    My boards are all one-offs, handmade, as a weekend hobby. Changing one is just a matter of a few minutes with a wire-wrap tool and a soldering iron.

    I first bought the Blitz. During one project, I accidently plugged a data 9-pin into the Blitz, after which it wouldn't program, so I thought I had fried it. Parallax wasn't offering the Blitz for sale at that time, so I bought a Key. After the Key arrived I discovered that the problem wasn't with the Blitz but with the board; a wire to the crystal had broken, and the Blitz was fine. So now I have and use both programmers, which I'm happy about, because now if I really do screw up and fry one, my project won't grind to a halt since I've got a backup.

    I'm not a debugger user. The reason I like assembly is that you can know exactly what the code is doing. You never have to guess what some externally-supplied code or procedure is doing. So if the code doesn't work, then I like to study the source until I understand what it is that I'm missing, and fix it. I know this style doesn't work for everyone, but since this is just a hobby for me, I have the luxury of being able to take all the time needed to do just that.

    So I use the Blitz and the Key interchangeably; I just grab whichever programmer is nearest.

    David
  • Michael ChadwickMichael Chadwick Posts: 80
    edited 2006-02-18 01:27
    Hi George,

    Epoxy! Duh! Why didn't I think of that. If I have to cut the heat shrink off to replace the inductor anyway, I can just as easily glue the little piece of core back on. (Yes, it is rattling around in there under the heat shrink) More easily really, since I won't have to unsolder the inductor. Hmm, super glue might even be better, although less resilient.

    Thanks for reminding me!

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    MRC
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2006-02-18 08:40
    Everytime I use super glue, something gets stuck that I don't want stuck.
    Use it at your own risk.

    Regarding wrong failure perceptions, I had a 52' Chevy truck that started to have very strange oil pressure problems. So I junked it and sold it piece by piece. I even cut the frame in half and made a trailer out of the front axle.

    When I finally got the engine apart [noparse][[/noparse]months later], everything looked fine. [noparse][[/noparse]It was a bad oil pressure sensor].

    Personally I am still learning and I get lost with the De-bugger.
    You have to know how to adjust your code so that you don't get stuck in loops. [noparse][[/noparse]Often the code expects you to have some I/O and if has none, it just loops forever.]

    I read code on paper with colored markers pointing the way.

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    "When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

    ······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
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