Huge voltage drop on robot? Why?
I have a servo driven robot that has a lifting mechanism which uses 3 high torque servos. The drive system uses 2 high torque servos (modded for continuous rotation). I have no problem driving around, but when I use the 3 servos to start lifting a load, they start straining, and the voltage drops A LOT. With both 6.0V batteries I have tested it with, each dropped to below 4.0V when the 3 lift servos were put under a load. Under normal driving conditions (and while at idle, only the stamp drawing current), voltage is around 5.8-5.9V. What is going on here? Do the servos short out the battery when they are stalled? How can I protect my batteries? (I think one is already damaged, it won't charge fully).
Comments
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
csavage@parallax.com
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Beau Schwabe
IC Layout Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
Edit: Could it be the fact that I'm running all the current through the breadboard? How much current are these things designed to handle?
that long leads might be a problem. What wire guage are you using?
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Beau Schwabe
IC Layout Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
As you have discovered - Lift takes a lot more power than rolling along on a level floor. Larger wires directly from the batteries to the servo motors may help quite a bit because it is a tempory peak load.
The control wire to the BasicStamp can remain small.
If you really want lift, you may have to solder heavy gauge wires into the servo. Even then, the PC board inside may limit you because you have to go through the PWM logic. Don't let the low voltage decieve you.
For example, I got an old school bus that needed a new set of cables from the battery to the starter. Merely 12volts, but 5/8" thick arc welding cable was required. Each cable was 8 feet long as the battery was not under the hood.
If you really believe these servos are your best choice, you might remove the circuit boards and just run the two motor wires from them into an appropriate 3-5amp H-bridge.
Also, the breadboard really has 'high resistance' connections.· You loose a lot of power at each·plugin point·by going thorough it.· It is really intended for light current loads.
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
Post Edited (Kramer) : 2/3/2006 5:04:43 PM GMT
I notice on the PSC, all the servos are driven through the two tiny power leads. If these are too small to run high torque servos, then what could? Can the PSC really drive 15 (or is it 16? I don't remember) servos, if each servo is stalled and draws 2 amps each?
Most printed circuit boards will only carry 2-3amps. So having a 10 amp relay on a printed circuit board is only 'de-rating' the relay [noparse][[/noparse]which will make it have a much longer useful life].
You are limited by your weakest link.
You have not mentioned if your servos actually stall. Stalling really generates a lot of demand on the motors. 20-22 gauge is a bit on the small side, so length might matter, but 90% of electrical failures are at the connections - especially when they are not soldered.
The amount of time in use might not allow you to notice heat [noparse][[/noparse]though there may be some].
Why not try to jury rig the servos directly to the batteries or a bigger supply and do a stationary lift test to determine that they are adequate. In the end, you may require a battery that is too big and heavy for the robot. And, you need to really consider not using a breadboard if you are going into more powerful circuits.
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
And I have doubts that adding capacitors will be necessary.
Additionally, I think your motors may not be able to do the lift regardless of wire or battery. You need to establish that first or you are just wasting your efforts by looking in the wrong places for solutions.
Have you actually weighed what your are trying to lift? Can you figure out how much leverage is working against you to increase friction and add to demands on the servos motor?
Have you tested the operation without anything being lifted?
These are important observations.
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
Jim
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In the end, it seems that it's all about getting the LEDs to blink....
I'm going to get a new battery pack from radioshack this weekend (GP3300), then I'll know for sure whether I just have a bad battery, or whether the servos cause the battery to get damaged. I may also check out the fuses they have there, it might be a way to check the peak current that the servos draw and find out whether this current surpasses the capabilities of the battery.
You really need to measure your current at full load to answer your question. And what does "I do admit that the load the servos are attempting to life is pretty large" mean? What is your gearing? "Pretty Large" -- does that mean a human? 100 pounds? 10 ounces?
The short answer is, a servo is designed to put out a certain torque, for a certain load, with a specified voltage. The resulting current will be what the resulting current will be. A battery is designed to maintain a certain voltage, supplying current for some period of time.
I don't know that you've told us the Amp-Hour rating of your batteries.
If you have a 1000 mA-hour battery, and you're driving your servo's with 3 amps each, then that's 9 amps leaving the battery.
A 1000 mA hour battery can put out 9-amps for (Let's see, 1 Amp * 60 Minutes == 9 Amps * X minutes, X == 60/9, X == 6.67) for 6 and 2/3 minutes.
So measure your current, check the specifications on your battery, and you can answer your own question.
The weird thing is that when I try to measure current using my multimeter (rated for up to 10 amps), with the leads hooked up to the power line of the battery, my robot just goes crazy, all the servos just start jerking simultaneously. I'm going to see if I can check the current using a system of fuses instead.
Well, thanks everyone for all the help. I'll report back once I get it tested with the new battery.
is there anyway that you can post a schematic of what you have? The "plug and blow" fuse method that you are
suggesting is not the correct way to proceed with things.
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Beau Schwabe
IC Layout Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
They manage a first time lift, but at 35amps your wire should be larger [noparse][[/noparse]10 gauge or more] and you are not going to get much more thant one cycle out of them.
In the batteries are rated at 3300ma, you only have 10 minutes of available use UNDER USUAL circumstances. I don't think you have harmed the batteries. You seem to need something much larger [noparse][[/noparse]like a gel cell or automotive battery].
Also Nicads and NiMH batteries usually require a 12-14hour recharge period to properly recharge on a properly designed charger.· It could be that you are just too impatient with charging them.· You need Lithium batteries to get a quick charge time.
I am trying to identify which part of the design is the weakest link.
Apparently the servos are fine. As you do get one lift.
If the supply were large enough, the wire would seem to work [noparse][[/noparse]but may be get hot if too small].
After all it does lift for awhile.
You may simply be stuck with providing external power if you cannot fit in a large enough battery.
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
Post Edited (Kramer) : 2/9/2006 4:18:55 PM GMT
The way to measure the current of the servo in question when it is under heavy load is by measuring it when all other servos are disconnected from the power source. It sounds like you are taxing the batteries to the point where the battery's resistance is coming into play. While the small voltage drop across the sense resistor in your DMM shouldn't effect the operation of the circuit, if the circuit is on the edge of being "broken" the additional small resistance of the DMM can be the straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back.
The heart of the issue here isn't the batteries, its how you designed the mechanical system the servo connects to. Your servo as mentioned by others, was designed to experience a certain maximum load as dictated by the torque rating of the gear reduction. You are pressing the servo into doing something far beyond what it was designed to do. Beyond the issue of draining the batteries at a rapid rate, you are severely decreasing the lifetime of the servo, continued operation beyond its design parameters will cause either the motor driving transistor to burn out or the insulation in the motor windings to melt and short. In a sense its a very good thing that your batteries Smile out so early, because it is likely keeping the servo from going into meltdown.
You need to either:
1. Further reduce the gear ratio, this will slow down the operation of the lifting mechanism, but it will also increase the torque the servo can provide while still remaining withing acceptable operating parameters.
2.·You have a beam and fulcrum system, shorten the boom (length of beam on the load side), this will decrease the height of lift but will decrease the mechanical advantage of the system to an acceptable level, or
3. Get a heavy-duty servo designed to provide the torque required (at the cost of still draining your batteries quickly because of the increased current required to operate the heavy duty servo).
As you see every solution has a significant disadvantage, welcome to the world of design trade-offs.
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·1+1=10
Post Edited (Paul Baker) : 2/9/2006 2:57:06 PM GMT
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Mike
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Of course, if you fix the weakest link, the next weakest becomes the failure point. The whole system has to be brought up to a reliable configuration.
Servos are very useful to create a bench-top prototype to prove a design and to write software.
But, if you want to scale up to a larger system controlled by the same device, many different areas of engineering have to come into play.
When you are 'pushing the envelope' it can oftend exhibit failure rather than sucess. The value is that it teaches you where your lack of knowlegde lies.
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan