Anyone use PCBExpress?
Jim C
Posts: 76
I'm thinking of using PCBExpress to build some boards for me, and I wonder if anyone has had experience with their service. A related question would be: might anyone have schematic and layout files for a simple SX-related project that PCBExpress could read?
(If there was a project to modify that had been successfully built it might make it easier to get a new one rolling)
Thanks,
Jim
(If there was a project to modify that had been successfully built it might make it easier to get a new one rolling)
Thanks,
Jim
Comments
I use them, but the biggest problem is that you need to provide gerber files. I do my layouts in autocad then I save them as a DXF file. Then I have a friend convert it into a gerber (which usually takes a couple tries to get it the conversion right). So unless you have a way of making gerber files I would suggest you stick to expresspcb or pcb123 or another service that provides the software to draw the layout.
Bean.
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"SX-Video·Module" Now available from Parallax for only $28.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30012
"SX-Video OSD module" Now available from Parallax for only·$49.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30015
Product web site: www.sxvm.com
"I hope the goonwave is not vaporware"
·
Timothy Gilmore
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My big problem with gerber is that programs to convert from DXF to gerber are very expensive (> $1000). If I could fine one that worked well for a couple hundred I would buy it.
Bean.
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"SX-Video·Module" Now available from Parallax for only $28.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30012
"SX-Video OSD module" Now available from Parallax for only·$49.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30015
Product web site: www.sxvm.com
"I hope the goonwave is not vaporware"
·
I hop you don't mind me asking,
Where do you do your assembly (placing and soldering) for your OSD product?
Thanks.
All the SMT (except the SX48) are put down with solder paste and reflow.
Then the SX48 is hand soldered (with an iron), then the leaded parts are put on.
Bean.
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"SX-Video·Module" Now available from Parallax for only $28.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30012
"SX-Video OSD module" Now available from Parallax for only·$49.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30015
Product web site: www.sxvm.com
"I hope the goonwave is not vaporware"
·
It looks like factory made !
I bought one a few weeks ago but haven't had time to play with it yet.
Why you didn't reflow the SX48 as well?
Jim
Thanks. I have alot of experience assembling PCBs.
I cannot get the proper amount of paste on the tiny pads for the SX48. They end up bridging.
Timothy,
Yes I used PCBExpress (NOT ExpressPCB, they are different firms).
For a first timer I would recommend "ExpressPCB", I have never used them but Jon Williams swears by them.
There are many things that can go wrong with gerbers. For instance the last board I had made one hole was 0.0194 instead of 0.020 and the gerber ignored it. And the holes were not on the drill file. So when I got my board they looked very nice execept for 3 holes not being drilled or plated thru. Basicly the whole lot was trash. $300 down the drain. And it was my fault. I didn't count the holes and compare that to the drill file. Oh well lesson learned.
Bean.
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"SX-Video·Module" Now available from Parallax for only $28.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30012
"SX-Video OSD module" Now available from Parallax for only·$49.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30015
Product web site: www.sxvm.com
"I hope the goonwave is not vaporware"
·
Yes if you don't know what you are doing with gerbers you can end up with glorified coasters. But you can mitigate the likelyhood of that happening by going with a reputable fab house that explicitly states they will have a real person check over your designs.
My first gerber fab was through Advanced Circuits, and they have two levels of scrutiny, the first was an automated engine that looked through your design and looked for DRC errors, you could not submit the design until it passed, but if you did proper DRC in your layout software you should be able to pass with no problems. The second level after submission a person sat down and thouroughly looked through my design, he emailed me asking what I wanted to do with the location crosshairs for the silkscreen text, Eagle defaults these to 0 width (which I have yet to figure out how to change) which shows up as a warning (since silkscreen is a non critical feature). I replied that I didn't want them and he erased them from the gerber for me. He also slightly shifted the location of some of the silk screen labels that were over exposed copper (Eagle isn't as precise with silkscreen as with copper), and the silkscreens that couldn't be moved he did a masking of so they didn't print over the exposed copper. The only error in the entire board was that a retention hole for a switch was not drilled, no biggie I just filed down the post on the switch, the solder still held it in place. I later went back to my design and discoved it was my fault because I didn't include the hole layer in with the drill layer when I generated the excellon drill file.
I strongly suggest doing the same when you decide to go the gerber route, having an experienced professional look over your designs can save you alot of time and money. Then once you feel like you have the knack for generating gerbers, goto cheaper houses that dont provide the same level of service.
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Jon Williams
Applications Engineer, Parallax
Oliver H. Bailey
Author
Here's the tutorial·and includes the silk resizing script (silk_gen.ulp, Ignore the error it gives when started) and Gerber generating·CAM processor·(SFE-Special.cam): http://www.sparkfun.com/tutorial/PCB/eagle-output-tutorial.htm
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·1+1=10
You mentioned:
There are many things that can go wrong with gerbers. For instance the last board I had made one hole was 0.0194 instead of 0.020 and the gerber ignored it. And the holes were not on the drill file.
What part is so critical that it mattered if the hole was 1/2 a thousandths too small? To be honest, the drills they use probably have more runout than that, not to mention that fiberglass board material is not the most dimensionally stable substance in the world. I'm also curious what you mean when you say the "gerber ignored it"? That's a bit like saying that the JPEG ignored the red eye in the photo I took of Aunt Edna. A file format doesn't ignore anything, it's just a vessel to hold things in a specific format. Finally, you mention that the holes weren't on the drill file which has nothing to do with the gerber file, but rather with the excellon drill file.
I think you're making this all much harder than it needs to be. The real problem you're having is that you're using AutoCad to do PCB layout when you would be much better off doing PCB layout in an actual PCB layout program. You mentioned that you have problems converting from the DXF files to gerbers. If you use a PCB program, you won't have to hassle with all of that DXF to Gerber Fu nonsense since the program will output gerber files natively.
Thanks, PeterM
I think the focus of Bean's comment (and reading between the lines) was that he used AutoCAD because he was comfortable with it, and, at least for his current volume of "board design", could get his job done faster with AutoCAD than learning a new piece of software.· For him, at this point in time, with his current volume of new disigns, this makes sense.
For someone who doesn't use AutoCAD (or any other software) learning to use·an actual·PCB design software certainly makes more sense.· I believe that Bean even indicated that if his volume increased, he would probably look at using a different tool.· (i.e. one more appropriate to his changing situation).
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but pointing out that different users may have different needs, and what does not generally make sense (using AutoCAD for PCB work) can make sense in certain specific situations.· In this case, familiarity with the software and low volume of new designs.
For someone starting "from scratch", I would certainly not expect them to use AutoCAD, or any other "mechanical" CAD package, but someting like Eagle or the other tools mentioned.
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John R.
8 + 8 = 10
What happened was I told the DXF to Gerber program what sizes of drills to use. And 0.0194 was not one of the sizes, so it ignored the hole (didn't put it in the drill file).
John is correct. I would not recommend that anyone starting out use autocad for PCB design. But that is what I have used for years, and I just don't have the time to learn something right now.
Bean.
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"SX-Video·Module" Now available from Parallax for only $28.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30012
"SX-Video OSD module" Now available from Parallax for only·$49.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30015
Product web site: www.sxvm.com
"I hope the goonwave is not vaporware"
·
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James Newton, Host of SXList.com
james at sxlist,com 1-619-652-0593 fax:1-208-279-8767
SX FAQ / Code / Tutorials / Documentation:
http://www.sxlist.com Pick faster!
Did you use a magnifying glass to solder the SX48?
What brand of soldering iron you use and what is the tip size?
Will you try to relfow the SX48 in the near future?
Will adding more flux help?
I am about to try reflow the SX48 on my new PCB, after hearing about solder bridges, I am thinking twice....
I use a 3x magifier with a light.
The iron is a cheap weller WLC100 with the smallest tip available (not sure but I think it is 1/32"). I set the control to "3".
· I use the "drag" method. I use a flux pen (Kester #186) and coat the pads AND the legs of the SX48.
· I place the SX48 (this takes about 1 minute to make sure all sides are okay).
· Then I put one finger on the SX48 to hold it down (making sure not to move it).
· I put a VERY little ball of solder on the end of the tip. Touch the left end of 1 row of pins and "drag" the soldering iron to the right (I'm right handed). If you have the proper amount of solder on the iron it will work great. If your finger get too hot, then you are going too slow. It's about 1 second to drag across 1 row of pins.
· Now make sure all the other rows of pins are okay. Before soldering any further.
· I only tried the paste a couple times, but I found I could solder them down by hand faster than finding the bridge and fixing it.
· I'm sure it can be done, but I don't have a proper screen printer for the paste. Also I think my solder stencil was too thick.
· Everything has to be just right for 0.5mm pitch devices.
· It probably takes me about 2-3 minutes to solder one device down, and for the quantities I'm making now that is acceptable.
· Oh I forgot to mention that I make the pads for the SX48 longer than recommended, that helps with hand soldering too.
· Some day I'm going to have to make a video of me soldering one down, as I get asked quite often how to do it.
Bean.
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"SX-Video·Module" Now available from Parallax for only $28.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30012
"SX-Video OSD module" Now available from Parallax for only·$49.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30015
Product web site: www.sxvm.com
"I hope the goonwave is not vaporware"
·
Uhhh, you should use Pentalogix View Mate to check your gerbers. You can view them with their software for
free...·· ...just can't save changes to the files. www.pentalogix.com
You really need to get yourself a copy of a good PCB·program...···...it could save you many hours of trouble.
I picked up a pro liscence of eagle a while back, and it has more than paid for itself. It's a little hard to learn,
but is a very good tool. It's changed my design routine enough, that·often times I·design a project, build boards,
and THEN start testing.·Looking at the numbers,·using some of the·quick turn proto houses (5 boards, 5 days, $75!!!), it's faster and cheaper to build boards and·test(and modify if necessary)·than to breadboard things.·But, I'd never try this without a good PCB cad program...
-Dan
·
Where do you get 5 boards in 5 days for $75 ?
I did view the gerber, but I didn't notice the missing holes. My Bad.
It's the old catch 22. I don't have the time to learn a new program even though I know it will save time in the long run.
Bean.
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"SX-Video·Module" Now available from Parallax for only $28.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30012
"SX-Video OSD module" Now available from Parallax for only·$49.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30015
Product web site: www.sxvm.com
"I hope the goonwave is not vaporware"
·
www.batchpcb.com is your friend.
Love,
Me.
looked at the expresspcb schematic software and i dont see any sx 28's or sx 48 smt's..... how are you using the software ? just putting a 28 pin din in the 28's place ?
dan
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·1+1=10