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How do I get acurate power? — Parallax Forums

How do I get acurate power?

InteractivesInteractives Posts: 83
edited 2005-12-13 22:50 in BASIC Stamp
Hello, My name is Jennifer, and I have just made a sobering realization about "wall wart" power supplies- or AC to DC wall mount power transformers. I work in a shop that has many many projects running on Stamps (BS2). Usually, to power these projects, I use a run of the mill, 500mA Universal AC adaptor. They have adjustable output between 1.5 to 12 VDC. I noticed right away that when set on 12VDC the voltage read 19.26, when set on 9vdc = 14.11v, 7.5 VDC = 11.80 at so forth and so on. It kind of made me scratch my head, but usually I would just wire up my VIN with the transformer set to 7.5 VDC, which was 11.80 in reality. Some time passed, and I was shocked to find that one of my projects, which I am making for a museum to have on 24/7- mysteriously died. I replaced the STAMP, and it came back to life. It has occured to me, that I might very well be up a creek with this- I have several projects wired up with these power supplies. It has only recently come to my attention, when I ordered 45 illuminated push buttons with 6volt LEDs, that when I actually use a 6V power supply, things tend to burn up. What is a girl to do? If it really doenst output 6volt, why in the world would it say 6vdc output? How am I supposed to actually get these voltages? Am I up a creek, or what?

Comments

  • GenesisGenesis Posts: 42
    edited 2005-12-13 16:38
    Wall Warts are typically unregulated supplies.

    A voltage regulator will take care of this. The Stamp has one on-chip, but it has limited current capability. You can get an inexpensive +5V regulator at Radio Shack which will turn that unregulated power into nice clean regulated +5VDC, which the Stamp (and your LEDs, etc) can then "eat".

    You might also consider filtering both the input and output sides of the regulator with an appropriate filter capacitor - this will eliminate any noise that could otherwise cause things to misbehave.
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2005-12-13 16:51
    There are regulated power supply wallwarts, you just have to make sure it is one, a regulated wallwart will always say so on the plug-in pack. But unregulated ones don't nessesarily say they are unregulated, if there is no mention of it being regulated, chances are it isn't. The universal wall wart I use does specifically say its regulated (its the Radio shack wall wart for digital cameras 1A w/ 3/4.5/5/6/7.5V sadly, I cant seem to find a link to it on RS's website)

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  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 1,023
    edited 2005-12-13 16:51
    Jennifer,

    As stated above *most* wall warts are unregulated. They have a higher than rated "float" (meaning no load) voltage that is considerably higher than the rated output. This is so when a load is connected, the wall wart will not drop below the rated voltage until the rated current is exceeded.

    But no, you are not up that dark brown river without a certain instrument. As said above, you can regulate the power yourself. Or, you can buy regulated wall warts. They are of course more expensive, but you could just plug them in and go.

    As to the LEDs, what burns up? Do you have current limitng resistors on the LEDs? Tell us more.

    Jonathan

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    www.madlabs.info - Home of the Hydrogen Fuel Cell Robot
  • InteractivesInteractives Posts: 83
    edited 2005-12-13 17:03
    Thanks for your support, guys. Then LEDs burn up. I believe they are of the type that have buildt in resistors, because the company sells them to be "plug and play", so to speak.
  • InteractivesInteractives Posts: 83
    edited 2005-12-13 17:07
    The problem that Im looking at now, is the fact that I have many, many,many projects built already. Basically, I make exhibit stuff, and I have been working on this project for the last year , so I have roughly 12 or so exhibit components already build. Most of them have many power supplys. I think it would take a big pile of time and money to go back and resolder each PC board to have a 5V, or 12 V regulator. Basicllay it seems that the ones that I have hooked up at 11.80V, are actually "feeding" the circuit less than that, just so they dont drop below 7.5 Volts, correct?
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2005-12-13 17:22
    As long as you are feeding the voltage into the BS2 through the Vin pin, you don't need to worry about oversupplying the BS2, because they have on-board voltage regulators, and they can handle voltages higher than 7.5V being fed to them. How are you feeding the rest of the circuit?

    Also when you are testing the supply's voltage, are you doing it with the board powered or just measuring the voltage with nothing hooked up? To get a better measurement, you should test it with the board powered, because the voltage of an unregulated supply will vary according to load. The voltage value provided on an unregulated wall wart is obtained by using a certain load (resistance). If the load has a higher resistange, the voltage will be higher than listed; if the load has a lower resistance, the voltage will be lower than listed. You can trick an unregulated power supply into seeing the proper load by placing a power resistor in series with the load (if the load's resistance is too low), or by placing a power resistor in parallel with the load (if the load's resistance is too high). But you have to be sure the resistor can handle the current it will see (especially if you place it in parallel).

    The resistor solution may be the simplest method for your already built displays.

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  • allanlane5allanlane5 Posts: 3,815
    edited 2005-12-13 17:27
    Correct. If you have an un-regulated wall-wart power supply rated 7.5 volts at 500 mA (for instance), then when you are actually pulling 500 mA out of it, the output voltage will drop to 7.5 volts.

    If you want to test this, get a nice high-wattage load resistor of 15 ohms (15 == 7.5 / 500 mA). Power dissapation is: P = I * V, so P = 500 mA * 7.5, which is 3.75 watts. A 5 watt resistor of 15 ohms should handle this (it WILL grow warm though).

    So, put the load resistor across the wall-wart output, and THEN measure the voltage. It should be 7.5 volts.

    In theory, you could design a small 'adapter' board with a regulator and a couple of capacitors on it. The 'adapter' would accept the unregulated voltage from the wall-wart, and put out a regulated voltage you could depend on.
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2005-12-13 17:33
    allanlane5 said...

    In theory, you could design a small 'adapter' board with a regulator and a couple of capacitors on it. The 'adapter' would accept the unregulated voltage from the wall-wart, and put out a regulated voltage you could depend on.
    Like this http://www.sparkfun.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cat=46& (halfway down the page, Breadboard Power Supply), you could even replace the header pins with a male power plug wire so the regulator is inline and doesn't occupy any PCB space.

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  • InteractivesInteractives Posts: 83
    edited 2005-12-13 17:41
    I will test this when I get a chance. Right now I have many of the following schematics, build and ready to put on the floor, aside from the faulty power supplies of course
    ·
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2005-12-13 17:48
    Is it the 24V supplies that are causing the problems (supply for the bulbs)? Its a variable load so the resistor trick wont work. When only one is lit, the voltage will be the greatest, meaning its the most likely time to burn out. Plug and play modules have the caviat that they expect to see a certain voltage, if you exceed that they may still burn out.

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  • InteractivesInteractives Posts: 83
    edited 2005-12-13 17:58
    With the mysteriously dead project, I read all the voltages as what they were supposed to be (11.80 VIN, for example, with my transformer set to 7.50 VDC. I just did the math on my pushbutton replacement costs: At Newark in one , 45 6vdc unregulated power supplies: $348.30, 45 regulated 5vdc power supplys: $892.35. The internet forum that enables you to explain to your boss just why you dont deserve a promotion: priceless.
  • Mike CookMike Cook Posts: 829
    edited 2005-12-13 18:12

    If your looking to save some cash on your power supplies, then check out the following links:

    www.allelectronics.com

    and

    www.mpja.com

    Mike


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    "OEM NMEA GPS Module" Now available on ebay for only $19.99, FREE shipping until 2006!

    Product web site: http://www.allsurplus.net/Axiom/
  • allanlane5allanlane5 Posts: 3,815
    edited 2005-12-13 19:04
    It might be a little labor intensive, but in theory you could put in an additional current-limiting resistor in the voltage supply line for each switch. This would be inexpensive in terms of hardware (resistors don't cost that much).

    Of course, you'd have to find a place in the wire where you could splice in the resistor. And you'd have to find out exactly what the worst-case voltage on your supply was in order to select your resistor. The good news is that LED's tend to light mostly the same brightness over quite a range of currents (8 to 15 mA).

    The other good news is that if you've purchased 45 identical un-regulated supplies, their open-circuit voltages are probably all pretty similar to each other.
  • InteractivesInteractives Posts: 83
    edited 2005-12-13 19:37
    I will check out the all eceltronics.com for future cheap power supplies , and experiment with resistor values- just for the push buttons, since they will not be varying in voltage. Thank you very much.
  • InteractivesInteractives Posts: 83
    edited 2005-12-13 19:51
    I have soldered a 270 ohm resitor in series based on the presumption that the interal resistor is 270- to accomidate an actuall 6vdc. It seems to not want to burn. Thanks. Lesson learned the hard way.
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2005-12-13 19:59
    I guess you are somewhat an electronics person.· The pic, attached, you may find of some value.
    attachment.php?attachmentid=39784

    Post Edited (PJ Allen) : 12/13/2005 9:59:16 PM GMT
    352 x 271 - 17K
  • SteelSteel Posts: 313
    edited 2005-12-13 22:09
    Jennifer...

    This guy is, and always be your best friend....

    http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM340.pdf

    Voltage input 5-12V....output: 5.0V, up to 1 Amp.
  • SPENCESPENCE Posts: 204
    edited 2005-12-13 22:50
    Jennifer,

    i am not shouting. I have been able to read and type all caps much easier for over 55 years.

    One thing i may have missed but don't think so. Are these devices all in seperate locations where several devices can not share a single power supply?. If not and they are withing a resonable distance , then with carefull wireing maybe you could cut down on overall number of power supplys.

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    73
    spence
    k4kep
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