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Anyone thinking about entering the "InkJet Contest" ? — Parallax Forums

Anyone thinking about entering the "InkJet Contest" ?

BeanBean Posts: 8,129
edited 2005-12-16 02:31 in General Discussion
I haven't heard anyone mention it yet.
Have you guys seen the announcement ?
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=561510

I've got a couple of ideas, but I'm just too damn busy to experiment with them right now.
Bean.


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http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30015

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Comments

  • RsadeikaRsadeika Posts: 3,837
    edited 2005-12-08 17:30
    I'm to busy trying to figure out whats going on with SX52 proto board. Besides that I do not have any ideas for an inkjet contest entry.
  • SteveWSteveW Posts: 246
    edited 2005-12-08 18:58
    Hmm, hadn't seen that. There's something I've wanted to play with for a while, though, this might be a much-needed prod to do something about it [noparse]:)[/noparse]
    <goes all secretive, and starts pondering>

    Steve
  • Eric REric R Posts: 225
    edited 2005-12-09 04:52
    Spent about the last day thinking about this and my mind is still blank. Maybe buying the inkjet kit would help that problem. tongue.gif

    ·If I am unable to come up with an idea, I sure look forward to seeing the contest results as there is a lot of talent on this forum.
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,401
    edited 2005-12-09 05:36
    Okay, I can help.

    When HP first approached us about this whole idea I thought to myself "printing and microcontrollers, so what?". It wasn't until I spent a meeting or two with that the whole picture really came together. First, understand that they came to Parallax because we have a very innovative customer base. You needn't be an electronic engineer to use our products. Our customers often have specialties in a variety of fields. And HP has a technology they're opening up to the masses at some level. A combination of patent expiration, a thermal inkjet product line with more uses than in·traditional printers, and a fairly simple hardware requirement make it ideal for sharing with you. And for the big size of HP, I'm amazed at how well they've been able to support a small company like Parallax to implement their vision.

    As for the contest, maybe you need some ideas about some things that can be done with the TIJ 1.0 inkjet pens. In no particular order, how about this:
    • Manufaturing applications, where product moves under the cartridge
    • Non-food labelling, such as eggs, packages
    • Moving the porous media instead of the ink cartridge
    • Traditional labelling processes that would benefit by the flexibility of being microcontroller-managed
    • Printing on wood, rocks, skin?
    • Robotic-controlled printing, either on a robot
    • A new system of registration to print 1/4" tall characters
    • Asian characters - nobody has done that with this technology
    • Variable speed printing with an encoder - text is laid down at a consistent spacing as print·cartridge speed changes
    • Printing on variable height objects, such as a round cardboard can
    • Printing something other than ink - can the material boil?
    • Bar codes or a similar system that can be optically decoded with something like a QRD114 or Parallax QTI
    • Printing data instead of using a serial LCD or terminal
    • Art

    Ken Gracey
    Parallax, Inc.
  • Matt GillilandMatt Gilliland Posts: 1,406
    edited 2005-12-09 06:59
    I've had some time to experiment with this technology, and at first it was more of a "toy" (and in fact, it really IS FUN to play with [noparse]:)[/noparse].· But potentially useful·applications·abound too...·

    The first thing I did was to fire all twelve nozzles as quickly as the BS-2 could muster - essentially creating an airbrush, but without the *air*.· The cartridge itself vaporizes ink droplets with heat (seven times the surface temperature·of the Sun!) and the resulting ink explosion shoots each droplet up to 5 or 6 inches.

    Since each nozzle is independently controlled and the firing rate is infinitely variable (under your program's control) very precise (single droplet in picoliter sizes) is easily achieved.

    Autonomous, robotic art projects with full text capability too?
    How about Paint-bot?· Seek out an opponent, and "blind" his photocell...
    Use a single nozzle and write script?
    How about interstitching two or more cartridges together and creating a wider print swath?
    Create a self-alignment process that will interstitch two print heads in unison, resulting in higher output resolution applications (think barcode!)
    Real time, hard-copy, strip chart recorder with no moving parts?
    Write text across a wall as the Boe-bot drives by?
    Real time remote industrial product serial numbering printing system?

    Although this is an INKjet cartridge, sometimes I like to think of it more as a LIQUID dispenser of sorts - a very precise one.· I'm not saying you could (or should for that matter) put anything but ink in that device - but what if...?· Gee, how about an autonomous robotic cockroach assassin?· A single droplet of insecticide applied to the victim - no overspray, no environmental concerns.

    As Ken said, HP was really interested in seeing what this community might come up with (don't get a big head here, but the collective talent in you'all makes even big companies like HP stand up and take notice).·

    Read the Foreword by Frank Cloutier·(downloadable on the Contest page)...it's quite inspiring.· Frank was the guy that invented this technology which has since become HP's largest division.

    As Frank says, "Go not where the path may lead...Go instead where there is no path, and leave a trail..."

    Are you sure I can't enter the Contest Ken?

    Matt
    ···


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    Matt Gilliland
  • steve_bsteve_b Posts: 1,563
    edited 2005-12-09 12:54
    A handheld printer that would allow you to print labels on boxes.

    Put an IR range sensor in there so that it doesn't try to print when it's far from the box...or some other proximity sensor...

    Put in an accelerometer so you could do one long sideways swipe to print the label longways, or if you were to move the unit and swipe it up and down, it would slowly print out each part of a longways message.

    Maybe have it work in tandem with a IPC code reader in that it would ID the box and the printer would label teh box with real world text!

    Recreate the Mona Lisa on a canvas! Use encoders for position.....heck, you guys working on the CNC machine could take the print head and fill it with photoresist and print on your circuits!!

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    ·

    Steve

    "Inside each and every one of us is our one, true authentic swing. Something we was born with. Something that's ours and ours alone. Something that can't be learned... something that's got to be remembered."
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2005-12-09 15:25
    $3000 in prizes offer a lot of motivation for thought.

    Intially I just loved the idea for the novelty, but the utility is rapidly sinking in.

    I used to operate a silk screen printing factory.
    We could and did print 10,000 photo-separated color T-shirts in 3 days with some fairly simple technology. Silk screen is every where {the glass Coke bottles, 55 gallon drums, logos on car doors, wall paper and much more}.

    I imagine that having such a highly accurate printing head to bring to the surface can do away with a lot of sticky lables for price tags and other such items. And surfaces don't have to be flat, they can easily be convex or if the print head can get close enough, a bit concave.

    Inks are a big question. Many applications would want indellible ink which I seem to believe is not currently available in Ink Jet. The inks seem to be limited to certain porous surfaces.

    I don't see any problem with printing Chinese if you can download text via wire or rf link as you print.

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    "When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

    ······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
  • Mike CookMike Cook Posts: 829
    edited 2005-12-09 17:44
    For anyone thinking about refilling the Inkjet cartridge here's a link to the MSDS sheet on the ink.

    http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/globalcitizenship/environment/productdata/pdf/ij_51604arevb_us_eng_v2.pdf

    Mike

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    Post Edited (Mike Cook) : 12/9/2005 5:49:39 PM GMT
  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2005-12-09 21:43
    Ken:
    Could you expand on the following:
    Ken Gracey (Parallax) said...

    Okay, I can help.
    • Printing something other than ink - can the material boil?

    Are there any specific examples you could give?· What range does the boiling piont (and condensation point) need to be in?· Is this covered in the "spec sheets" (I have not looked yet, I an a lazy American)?

    What type of compounds shoud be avoided (pH, Solvents, etc.)?



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    John R.

    8 + 8 = 10
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,401
    edited 2005-12-09 21:50
    Hi John,

    Water works. The extent of the "data sheet" approved and published is what you'll find in Matt Gilliland's book. As far as compounds to avoid, just use common sense and basic chemistry. We won't comment much on chemicals and food-related uses, as they're not in HP's interest. And any lawyer would advise us not to be as bold as we've been in providing you with a list of ideas, so our creative side will be a bit quiet.

    - Ken
  • John R.John R. Posts: 1,376
    edited 2005-12-09 21:56
    Reminds me:

    What are a handful of lawyers trapped in a sinking boat?· A small start.

    Thanks, I understand...



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    John R.

    8 + 8 = 10
  • knightofoldcodeknightofoldcode Posts: 233
    edited 2005-12-10 07:56
    steve_b said...
    Use encoders for position.....heck, you guys working on the CNC machine could take the print head and fill it with photoresist and print on your circuits!!


    That would be slick! However, I don't think it can happen, at least not with conventional methods. The etch resistant material that is used on systems such as the Pulsar method rely on the plastic that is in the toner of a laser printer, Inkjet's don't have this plastic in them. [noparse]:([/noparse]

    Toner is ~%50 plastic, from what I understand.

    And I don't know of any photoresist that would be decent, yet still go through the nozzles of the inkjet. There are conventional inkjhet printers that can print on a solid surface, the CD printers that print directly on the CD.

    Knight.

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  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2005-12-10 13:47
    Well, if you want to talk acid resistant, I have to get into my art classes at the Univeristy of Oregon.

    Traditional etching is on copper plate with ferric chloride. Historically, there are a wide range of materials that have been used. Wax, tar, oils that dry and harden, pastes that never harder, rosin melted onto the plate.

    I suppose a water-based polymer [noparse][[/noparse]latex or acrylic or even just 'white glue'] might may a good acid resistant barrier for the short amount of time needed.

    Since everyone is already using scour and abrasives to clean other resist materials off, there doesn't have to be a nasty solvent or remover.


    ~~~~
    On a more interesting side, water could actually be used in its pure state.
    Then the material would have to have some feature that is useful hydroscopic feature. Water might be used to cut away from a gelitin-like material and to expose the underlying material [noparse][[/noparse]maybe copper]. If there were a way to fix the gelitin afterwards into an acid resist, this could be useful.

    There are also dyes which might simply block a certain wavelength of light. Then the photosensitive material could be exposed and developed. This may not be useful for 'circuit boards', but for making some very very tiny things [noparse][[/noparse]like stress guages], it becomes an interesting prining process. 96 dot per inch is fairly small.

    Excuse me, I am rambling. I have thought of one entry, but I am not going to tell anyone as I am still trying to decide if it would be worth it.
    I can't seem to locate the deadline yet.

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    "When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

    ······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
  • Beau SchwabeBeau Schwabe Posts: 6,568
    edited 2005-12-10 14:48
    Here is a reply I posted in another thread that applies.....

    Here is a thought using the regular ink...

    Simply print directly to a photo sensitive board. ( Printing must be done in the dark of course ) smilewinkgrin.gif

    This way you eliminate the step requiring a transparency with the photo resist.

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    Beau Schwabe

    IC Layout Engineer
    Parallax, Inc.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2005-12-10 17:38
    I am more interested in finding specialty printing situations with data entry..
    Something no so related to making electronics.
    We live in a culture that depends on printing in so many ways.

    I imagine that you could combine a barcode reader with the print head and it could read the barcode for a library book and print the due date inside the book. I believe they use a sheet pasted into the book so that it won't fall out. Saves a bit of time, eliminates date stamps that can be wrong or unclear.

    Or you could read a barcode for a customer's vehicle ID number and stamp the date of an oil change and tune up on a sticker placed on the car door or under the hood. All sorts of maintance logs.

    Being liquid ink, I guess you always have to position the printhead above the object. So the car door is out. Still there are a lot of production line applications. Inventory control. Expiry dates. Manufacture origin control. Lot numbers. Size and description on your Levis.

    What about prescription medicine bottles in a large pharmacy. McDonalds could put your name on the BigMac box if you had a bar coded 'preferred customer' card.

    And then there is a lot of specialty advertizing items.

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    "When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)

    ······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
  • Robert KubichekRobert Kubichek Posts: 343
    edited 2005-12-10 18:23
    Kramer said...
    I am more interested in finding specialty printing situations with data entry..
    Something no so related to making electronics.
    We live in a culture that depends on printing in so many ways.

    I imagine that you could combine a barcode reader with the print head and it could read the barcode for a library book and print the due date inside the book. I believe they use a sheet pasted into the book so that it won't fall out. Saves a bit of time, eliminates date stamps that can be wrong or unclear.

    Or you could read a barcode for a customer's vehicle ID number and stamp the date of an oil change and tune up on a sticker placed on the car door or under the hood. All sorts of maintance logs.

    Being liquid ink, I guess you always have to position the printhead above the object. So the car door is out. Still there are a lot of production line applications. Inventory control. Expiry dates. Manufacture origin control. Lot numbers. Size and description on your Levis.

    What about prescription medicine bottles in a large pharmacy. McDonalds could put your name on the BigMac box if you had a bar coded 'preferred customer' card.

    And then there is a lot of specialty advertizing items.

    That would be a good application for a thermal printer.
    No ink to replace, no smudging the ink. tongue.gif
    You can use label maker rolls that are cheap. tongue.gif
    I have seen thermal printers for under $10 on the net, it's just to interface them to a stamp... turn.gif
    I wonder if they make a spray on coating that allows one to use own paper? confused.gif

    Bob N9LVU scool.gif
  • Matt GillilandMatt Gilliland Posts: 1,406
    edited 2005-12-11 01:55
    This·technology·works well in the "firing down" and "firing horizontal"·directions.· Although it does "fire up", the reliability tends to diminish due to it's reliance on capillary action to refill the orifices, among other interesting? things.
    -Matt


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    Matt Gilliland
  • jdoleckijdolecki Posts: 726
    edited 2005-12-12 22:46
    At what speed do the droplets come out at? How hot are they? I have a project idea but its based on those two parameters.
  • Matt GillilandMatt Gilliland Posts: 1,406
    edited 2005-12-12 23:48
    I'm not sure about the speed of the droplet.· Of course, since the mass of the drop is so low, it's speed decreases rapidly as it travels away from the nozzle (say for example, in a horizontal firing position), to the point where it completely stops at about a 5" distance, where it drops to earth.· At about a 3/4" distance from the nozzle, the droplets begin to be affected by air currents - for legible text, 1/2" or so works.· See the website videos (linked from the Contest page)·for some horizontal firing samples at about 3" or so from the target.·

    Ink is not "boiled-off" per se.· It is so quickly heated, that it goes right through its boiling point and reaches the so-called "super-heat limit", where the droplet then goes through a vapor explosion (see Frank's Foreword, downloadable·on the·Contest page).· However, because the mass is so small, the temperature cools rapidly.· Even though the heat is (7) times the Sun's surface, it's for such a short time that the total amount of energy delivered to the droplet is only about 40 micro-joules.

    I've never felt any heat from the vaporized ink, and I'm not sure how you would go about measuring an individual droplet - I guess it could be calculated though?· My slightly educated guess would be that by the time the droplet reaches the target, it's at room temperature.·

    Anyway, I've put my fingers on the nozzle plate, while firing 12,000 drops per second, and the only thing I've ever detected is a mess on my fingers...

    Matt





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    Matt Gilliland
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,401
    edited 2005-12-14 22:55
    Hey guys,

    For those who have been interested in firing a substance other than ink, I have a bit more information for you. The two key aspects to firing a thermal inkjet cartridge nozzle of this style are viscosity and boiling point. Shooting a drop of ink requires the formation and explosion of a vapor bubble. If the non-ink material you're considering meets these characteristics it might fire quite well:
    • Boiling point around 250C
    • Viscosity of 25 centipoise or less (water fires with a 1 centipoise viscosity)

    Molasses and syrup won't fire, nor will moist oils.

    Ken Gracey
    Parallax, Inc.
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2005-12-14 23:02
    Hmmm, Id bet food coloring would fit the bill for alternative ink, 3 nozzles with Cyan, Magenta and Yellow and you could construct a full color cake printing machine (or easter egg, etc etc), and seeing as food coloring additives have already been passed by the FDA as suitible for human consumption, theres no potential lawsuits (at least that I can forsee).

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    ·1+1=10
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,401
    edited 2005-12-14 23:19
    Paul, you could be a winner! The contest doesn't require FDA approval and you have a good idea!

    In fact, you could be the FIRST person to enter the contest. Oh, what a shame it will be to see all of those great prizes go to people who won just by entering. Oh well. We'll be lucky to award the 12 prizes. Why is it so difficult to give stuff away. . .

    Ken
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2005-12-14 23:34
    Someone want to donate me 3 inkjet printer nozzles and driver boards and a stepper motor X-Y table, I'll give you half the prize smilewinkgrin.gif , now where's my hacksaw? (this could get messy).·All kidding aside, it is sad to see noone has entered yet.

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    ·1+1=10

    Post Edited (Paul Baker) : 12/14/2005 11:37:55 PM GMT
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2005-12-14 23:41
    Re-reading the catagories, the cake idea could be classified as either porous media or art, is it up to the contestant to choose which catagory the project fits in if it can be in more than one, or could you enter more than one catagory, only taking the top prize received in any one catagory (ie 1 prize, but it is eligible in more than one catagory)? Actually I can think of a project that could fit all three [noparse]:)[/noparse]

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    ·1+1=10

    Post Edited (Paul Baker) : 12/14/2005 11:47:03 PM GMT
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,401
    edited 2005-12-14 23:52
    Sure. I'll modify the rules as requested.

    Ken
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2005-12-15 11:09
    Robert Kubichek said...
    You can use label maker rolls that are cheap. tongue.gif
    I have seen thermal printers for under $10 on the net, it's just to interface them to a stamp... turn.gif
    I wonder if they make a spray on coating that allows one to use own paper? confused.gif

    Bob N9LVU scool.gif
    Many labeprinters have serial ports...


    Anyway...
    Here's an idea...

    Build an XYZ rig, or possibly add another couple of axis of movement, and mount the inkjet head on it. Use cartridges filled with pure water and place the entire assembly in a VERY COLD room...

    Ice-scuptures anyone?


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    Don't visit my new website...
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2005-12-15 20:11
    You could probably use just X and Y axis and "build-up" in the Z axis, just like a 3D printer.
    Cool idea. (hee hee hee "cool" get it).
    Bean.

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    "SX-Video·Module" Now available from Parallax for only $28.95

    http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30012

    "SX-Video OSD module" Now available from Parallax for only·$49.95
    http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30015

    Product web site: www.sxvm.com

    Forget about the past, plan for the future, and live for today.
    ·
  • jdoleckijdolecki Posts: 726
    edited 2005-12-16 00:12
    If i enter the contest do i get the inkjet carrier for free or do i have to buy the inkjet carrier od do the contestants get the thing for free?
  • Mike CookMike Cook Posts: 829
    edited 2005-12-16 00:51
    Ken,
    ·
    For those of us that would like to build the interface board for the HP Q7543A Cartridge Holder for HP51604 Inkjet Cartridge, can you give us a link, preferably a Digikey part number, for the 452-00020 Connector, FPC/FFC, 16 position, 1MM, right angle. Or do you plan on selling this part?
    ·
    Also is it possible to purchase empty HP51604A Inkjet Cartridges?
    ·
    Thanks,
    ·
    Mike

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    "OEM NMEA GPS Module" Now available on ebay for only $19.99, FREE shipping until 2006!

    Product web site: http://www.allsurplus.net/Axiom/

    Post Edited (Mike Cook) : 12/16/2005 12:57:22 AM GMT
  • Matt GillilandMatt Gilliland Posts: 1,406
    edited 2005-12-16 02:15
    Mike-

    As far as I know, empties are not available at this time.· (Empty-ing would be up to you).

    A suitable connector (there are several to choose from) would be Hirose #FH21-16S-1DS (Digikey #HFG16T-ND)

    -Matt

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    Matt Gilliland
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