Fab Labs

Paul Baker

Those of you interested in fabrication should check this NPR story out: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5008294

They say for about $20K you can purchase the equipment nessesary to fabricate nearly anything even in micron sizes. Neil Gershenfeld of MIT has released a book stating the next revolution will be personal fabrication, pretty interesting stuff. You'll need either WMP or RAP to listen to the segment.

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Ken Gracey

Paul,

Fascinating link, and of lots of interest to Parallax and customers. Just finished listening to the story.

Parallax has acquired focused ion beam and prober (non-contact scope) machines on the used market. This equipment originally sold for over a million bucks, but it goes for a small percent of that cost on the used market. Much of the low-cost hardware in the U.S. is a result of semiconductor fabs moving overseas, along with the employees who operated the machines.

Making the used machines operate can drive any IT guy crazy. Such machines arrive with a bunch of old factory software and Linux OS, and little documentation, but all of our equipment is in working order.

This is a different kind of "fab" than the story talks about, but it has in common the same idea of doing a lot of neat things on your own with low-cost equipment.

I think you need a tour.

Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.

Post Edited (Ken Gracey (Parallax)) : 11/14/2005 10:19:00 PM GMT

Paul Baker

Next time Im in CA, you better believe I'll be making a pit stop in Rocklin. I just don't have a reason other than vacation to head to the west coast at present, and finances keep me local for such recreational purposes.

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Ken Gracey

Paul,

I just ordered his book from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465027458/104-1425491-0938337?v=glance

I find these kinds of capabilities really interesting, for our future and our economy. It's fantastic to see people making things again, big and small. I'd really like to take his course at MIT, too, based on what I read on the reviews on the Amazon page.

- Ken

Beau Schwabe

Paul,

From a layout guy's perspective, this is really cool stuff!!

Perhaps when you visit Rocklin, Ken can show you all the neat equipment
we use to test our IC's with.

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Beau Schwabe

IC Layout Engineer
Parallax, Inc.

Ryan Clarke

Ken,

You should have let me know, I already have that book. And a few others you may find interesting.

Ryan

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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support

RClarke@Parallax.com

PJAllen

I listened to the interview; all of it.· It reminded me, a lot, of Art Bell's all-nighters with Richard C. Hoagland and Ed Dames (these were the·radio equivalent of stuffing 2-lbs. of baloney into a 1-lb. bag.)·

Where are these at, who's selling them? [noparse][[/noparse] Ghana?· Oh, puh-leez. ]?·

"Fab Labs": Machines that make, oh just anything --·you only have to find a way to do it, or something; and you do it with locally obtainable stuff.

I'm not convinced.·

I was born at night, but not last night.

pjv

Hi PJ;

I listened to all of it as well, and fully agree with you.

At no time did I get any sense of reality to this "magic". Then I poked at the MIT website, and there the results were equally disapointing. All I could find for their magic were just standard NC milling machines, standard NC lathes, standard stereo lithography, nice lasers, and for silicon....standard 8 pin PIC processors.

While I can believe such esoteric concepts in the distant future, machines that can make (almost) anything TODAY by simply sending a script to them?.....give me a break.

My opinion?....what an idiot.

Cheers,

Peter (pjv)

Post Edited (pjv) : 11/15/2005 7:44:16 PM GMT

Paul Baker

Is there hype in the story: yes, but that doesn't mean that his ideas are without merit, he is likening the present state of the technology to be similar to the mini-computer stage of the computer revolution, meaning it is just starting to reach the stage of the masses. Remember that mini-computers occupied a·room instead of a building like thier predecessors, even an 8086 is absolutly nothing compared to the present day 3GHz+ machines and these are both considered microcomputers. No, the tools they have don't have the ability to design on the micron level, therefore they cannot design things such as microchips, but as technology progresses it will become availible, it exists at present but requires large buildings to house and comprise of multimillion dollar machines (just like the original computers). But don't make the same mistake as the CEO of DEC did saying, why would anyone want to have a computer in thier home to do inventory or payroll (yes I borrowed this from the story, but its a valid point), or Gates saying that there will never be a need for more than 640K of memory in any computer. Those who have vision almost always prove those who don't have vision wrong, the only thing which seperates most science based nigh-fantasy· from reality is time. Will we have star trek replicators in our hands tomorrow, certainly not. But I fully expect to see a fab lab that can sit on a desktop capable of fabricating nearly anything I can dream of to exist long before I am too old to see a computer screen to design something. Do you think Turing thought his works would in just over 50 years lead to 13 year old kids playing DOOM ][noparse][[/noparse] in thier bedrooms?

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Post Edited (Paul Baker) : 11/15/2005 8:47:39 PM GMT

pjv

Hi Paul;

I like to think of myself as a very progressive out-of-the-box visionary thinker, and have great belief that in time the "impossible" can be achieved. Also, I don't take issue with the path of technology marching onward, and hence such things becoming more realistic with time.

I DO take issue with his over-simplification that for $20,000 you can have it today; that's just bunk! Look at the machines he's referring to. They are readily available current technology, certainly not micro-meter manufacturing equipment that produces (nearly) anything you want, from silicon to nano structures.

Please show me where I am wrong on this because I will march right out and get me one of those for only $20K.

I think the guy is badly distorting the current state of technology and not in touch with reality.......empowerment? BAH!

Cheers,

Peter (pjv)

Paul Baker

I agree, and I didn't mean to imply that you are narrow minded. I posted the link right after listening to the segment because I knew others would be interested. After looking at thier site I was reminded of my first attempts of installing linux back in the mid-90s (I think it was slackware when it first came out), and seeing all this clunky, poorly designed interface with obtuse and difficult to understand documentation (never figured out how to properly install the mouse driver and wiped it from the system the next day). But I still think that there will be a burgeoning market for this and within 10 years or so there will be companies producing viable machines to produce miniature (not microscopic) devices in a relatively straightforward manner, much the way linux has now become a fairly painless OS to install. The thing that peaked my interest is the person who called in stating 3D printers can be found for as little as $2K today, I'd be happy with just that capability for quite a while. Oh the fascinating project cases I could make.

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pjv

Hi Paul;

Fully agreed on the stereo lithography; in fact I'm going to look around to buy one if those are the realm of prices. It would be a neat machine to mess with; hope the consumables are not too expensive and/or have a reasonable shelf life.

Cheers,

Peter (pjv)

Beau Schwabe

pjv,

I don't know what materials are used today for "stereo lithography", but when I lived in Oklahoma, the
company that I worked for had a technology sharing program with Tinker Air Force Base, and I observed
one of these machines in operation. (Could have reached my arm out and dipped it in the liquid)
...Anyway, it was my understanding that the stereo lithograph "objects" could be reclaimed back into
the liquid state once they served their purpose, or if a design prototype required a revision or simply did
not work.

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Beau Schwabe

IC Layout Engineer
Parallax, Inc.