Portable Pneumatic Supply or Co2 Cartridge Assembly
Tim-M
Posts: 522
Hi Everyone,
· I will be building a·portable·table-top size machine(not at liberty·to say what it is)·that uses some·pneumatic components, so I'm looking for a small air cylinder or Co2 cartridge assembly to use as the pressure source.· Anybody have any interesting sources for something like this?· The machine demands are small enough that I could use Co2 cartridges, but I haven't had much luck finding a cartridge mount and piercing assembly other than those used in home-brew beer making and I'm hoping for something a little commercial or industrial·grade... any ideas there?· I believe the machine could go either way, air or Co2, but the Co2 option would be the most convenient as it would not require a compressor for recharge.
Thanks,
Tim
Edit:· My mistake... I had indended to mention that this machine operates under Basic Stamp control as well.
Post Edited (Tim-M) : 10/17/2005 7:48:51 PM GMT
· I will be building a·portable·table-top size machine(not at liberty·to say what it is)·that uses some·pneumatic components, so I'm looking for a small air cylinder or Co2 cartridge assembly to use as the pressure source.· Anybody have any interesting sources for something like this?· The machine demands are small enough that I could use Co2 cartridges, but I haven't had much luck finding a cartridge mount and piercing assembly other than those used in home-brew beer making and I'm hoping for something a little commercial or industrial·grade... any ideas there?· I believe the machine could go either way, air or Co2, but the Co2 option would be the most convenient as it would not require a compressor for recharge.
Thanks,
Tim
Edit:· My mistake... I had indended to mention that this machine operates under Basic Stamp control as well.
Post Edited (Tim-M) : 10/17/2005 7:48:51 PM GMT
Comments
Tim
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·1+1=10
Orion, I wasn't aware that cylinders were available in those sizes, thanks for this idea, I'll check into that more.
Tim
1 real small air tank with tire valve fiting and air spray nozzle for about $ 8-9 at harborr freight.
Go to to your local air conditioning repair shop and they throw away freon tanks from 5 to 30 lb capacity. Solder in a air hose fitting and your ready to air up at your favorite free air compressor.
73
spence
k4kep
Great ideas spence, thanks!
Tim
In addition to looking at pellet guns, you might find more of what you're after by looking at Paint Ball gun stuff.
I've seen these using larger CO2 cylinders, and I bilieve they even have some remote tanks that attache to the guns via a flexible hoze.
You might also have some luck looking up Radio Control Combat Boats or something like that. They make R/C boats with sections of replaceable balsa on the sides, and have onboard BB guns. I can't find the site now, but I saw one site that showed how to make a gun. (I believe the guns are CO2 powered.) I've also seen bigger models shooting 1/4 inch ball bearings.
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John R.
8 + 8 = 10
kelvin
Not handled properly, any compressed gas can create problems.
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John R.
8 + 8 = 10
Paul has pointed out too that one of the compressors on the linked page that he posted is listed as very quiet. I need to go back and read through all of those details more closely.
Tim
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=19983&subcategory_ID=4362
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Ken
Tim
the co2 cart fit inside a small cylinder that popped the co2; hrm, obviously. well anyway the the unit has threads that mate with the gun like any other tank. so you could unscrew the cylinder pop in a co2 cart, and screw it in.
WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO EXPLAIN! (yelling)
perhaps i lack the vocabulary. i'll draw a pic
inanycase this would be a great way to use small co2 carts with your project since they are very easy to swich out when they become co2-less
rox on
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engineer, fireman, bowler, father, WoW addict [noparse];)[/noparse]
Tim
Tim
This allows you to get more in a bottle as it is very dense.
AND it provides a bottle that is not under an enormous strain from pressure, so it is somewhat safer and the regulator is not working very hard.
NEVER store the bottle in an extreme HOT location as you obviously build more pressure and it has 'soft plugs' that are designed to blow out under excessive pressure.
If my memory is correct, you can get easily get 100PSI from the Co2 bottles at welding supplies and beverage distributors, but you can bring it down to just a few PSI through the regulator. Is the paint ball tank the same? I dunno.
I had what is called a 20 pound C02 tank [noparse][[/noparse]about 2 feet high] and used it to drive a nail gun, fill tires, drive a pnumatic ratchet, clean carburators, spray paint. I could install all the sub-flooring in a 1200 square foot house on one $5 re-fill and didn't have to deal with a noisy, heavy compressor or 220VAC. It was given to me with the regulator by a Pepsi distributor that I helped out and you can possibly refill through soda and beer distributors.
But, it is a global warming issue and someday may be regulated.
By the way, ALL GASES cool under expansion - it really doesn't matter if you use CO2 or air.· Rapid expansion will create freezing. I don't think you can get much in an 'air tank' and using nitrogen [noparse][[/noparse]which is not a fire hazard - similar to Co2], will definetely ice up too.· That is part of why you regulate the pressure.· I suspect CO2 is cheaper than pure nitrogen.· Welding supplies have both.
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
Post Edited (Kramer) : 10/19/2005 3:05:43 PM GMT
Tim
If you work with a compressor you have to drain water from the reserve tank or it begis to come out through your device.
Assuming that the liquifying of the Co2 removes the water, it has no way to come back in. Obviously there is a separation process involved in the production of 'pure Co2'.
They do make water traps for nail guns and other devices due to the problem. If there is any water in the C02, that is the solution.
When I was using the CO2 with a nail gun, the only thing I observed was that the tank would frost up and indicate the exact liquid level by the end of the frost line.
Water really messes with the lubrication of air cylinders, so it is a bad thing. Outside of doing SCUBA, compressed air is really a lousy choice.
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
www.palmer-pursuit.com/online-catalog/stabilizer.htm
kelvin
Kelvin, thanks for the Co2 pressure and·regulator information!· That link is much appreciated too.
Tim
No idea on costs....
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·
Steve
"Inside each and every one of us is our one, true authentic swing. Something we was born with. Something that's ours and ours alone. Something that can't be learned... something that's got to be remembered."
I don't have to have Co2 at all... just a pressurized source to run the pneumatics as you mentioned.
Tim
You probably have enough options already but to muddle your brain as bit more, there are a variety of CO2 fire extinguishers, from tiny 1Kg (2lb) to large 120Kg (250lb) bottles. You still need a regulator though.
I'd prefer compressed air although I used to run two identical pneumatic machines, one in a fire proof area working on CO2 and the other on compressed air. The compressed air device wore out a couple of times but the CO2 device is still working more than 10 years later. I'm told that CO2 has mild lubricating properties. I doubt your device will run 24/7/365/10 though.
Just watch the frost bite if you discharge the CO2 cylinder too fast!
Kind regards from Kwa Dukuza
John Bond
righto the small 3-4" ones
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engineer, fireman, bowler, father, WoW addict [noparse];)[/noparse]
The say you can get 50,000 shots as opposed to 1000 with CO2 and it won't freeze in cold weather!
Plus it's a lot cheaper!
Don't know if this works for you at all....but I'd certainly not use it unless there was a LOT of ventilation in case of a leak!
http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/fuel-injected_paintball_gun_takes_aim.php
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·
Steve
"Inside each and every one of us is our one, true authentic swing. Something we was born with. Something that's ours and ours alone. Something that can't be learned... something that's got to be remembered."
I like the idea of the propane efficiency and inexpense, but not the potential hazards at all, so I'll save that idea in more of the last resort catagory.· It's looking like I'll be giving Co2 a try·in either a remote paintball cylinder, or·something like the 20 lb size tank that Kramer had mentioned as from the beverage industry.· I don't know yet, but I'm guessing that these will be most in line with the capacity requirements.· I am open to any and all ideas, so please keep them coming if you've got them.
Thanks Guys,
Tim
I just wanted to put in my $0.02. There are really only two options. First is the CO2 option. Using this option you will NOT NEED A DRYER or any way to get rid of the "water" that is IN the gas. As there is no water in the gas. I promise, none. If you ever go to a hospital, I realize this is oxygen, but look at when they give out oxygen to someone. there is NO water in the oyxygen, it's pure, so they must put it trhough water, otherwise the oxygen will dry out the person's lungs, no kidding. So, if you go with the CO2 route, no dryers or mositure stops are needed.
However if you go with the compressed air, it does require some kind of moisture control. Refrigeration is only needed if you're going to be painting with the compressed air. Depending on the machinery, it's not likly you'll need much if any drying, simply for the fact that the water will stay in the bottom of the air tank, HOWEVER, it will still remain in the air as condensation, or humidity.
As someone already said the CO2 tank pressures can be REALLY high, UPWARDS of OVER 1200 PSI! It's HUGE, I'm not certain, and can look on my CO2 regulator when I get back home, but it's large. You'll HAVE to go with a regulator for C02! I don't care WHAT kind of CO2 you use, you'll have to have a regulator! Even the little 12 gram cylinders used in bb guns are high, high, pressure! they are something like 500-600 PSI. And don't think that's not much pressure, I promise it is. Imagine this... I've created spud guns taht can laucnh a hefty size spud, OVER 200 yards with a 125PSI air compressor!
I'm not trying to change your mind on using CO2, just be REALLY cautious, the pressures are HUGE. that being said, Co2, might be the perfect option, just be sure to regulate it, and ONLY use fittings DESIGNED for CO2! Any welding supply place will get you the materials. Locally the pries were something like, $100 for a 10 lb. cylinder, $75 for the regulator, $5 to fill the cylindar, and then just my normal hoses. The regular can drop the pressures anywhere from about 20PSI up to around 125PSI.
I have purchased all of these things for my soda gun setup in the past, but I've forgottne where I purcahsed it all form. When I get back home I'll look in my bookmarks to see if I can find the source I used. He's got cylinders, and everything needed, regulators, hoses, connectors, etc, etc.
PS, Sorry for the horrible typos, I'm on a Tablet PC with a laptop keyboard, out of twon, so it's hard to type on this little keyboard, and I've got huge hands.
Knight.
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kelvin
Did you know that as little as 10-15 psi jetted straight into the eyes can force an eye-ball to pop out?
[noparse][[/noparse]It must all the Halloween masks that brought this to mind.]
The real problem is not the cost of the gas, but the high charge to purchase a cylinder.
If you can find a second hand one, all the better. Try a restaurant supply house as they may have some left over from soda fountain equipment. But, be careful as I belive tht Pepsi and Coke own there own cylinders now. They might draw some negative comments when you try to refill. Also, try eBay or second-hand welding equipment sources.
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan