Priorities
LoopyByteloose
Posts: 12,537
Someone [noparse][[/noparse]I won't mention who] recently gripped about the Parallax support being too slow with his rather unimportant posting.· Being that he/she is new to the Forum, I try to cut some slack.
Having been here a while, it may help for us to understand that Parallax has to have priorities.· I mentioned the following priorities in a PM to him/her.· [noparse][[/noparse]Are there really any girls here?]
From what I observe, Parallax's staff is very diligent at·.....
First, trying to address all safety issues immediately and fully.
Second, trying to make sure that you get product satisfaction.· If you bought something and it doesn't work, you really should directly e-mail support, but some of us come here instead.
Third, just about anything that is reasonably in the ball park and not rude, incoherent,·or absurd.
As you can see, fun comes at a slower pace.
~~~~~~~~
Since I spend a lot of time here, I try to help out when I have good knowledge and I try to keep my mouth shut when I don't know anything.·I don't alway succeed [noparse][[/noparse]and occasionaly apologize].·I figure that by teaching, I learn more.· And by helping support, I pay my own way for using the Forum.· It is not all take.
There is a lot of generous people here and I don't think money along can buy the kind of support you can get.
So, I guess I am just trying to say Thank You to all.· Over the past year since I have joined, I haven't built anywhere near all my dreams, but I have learned a tremendous amount and continue to enjoy doing so.
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
Having been here a while, it may help for us to understand that Parallax has to have priorities.· I mentioned the following priorities in a PM to him/her.· [noparse][[/noparse]Are there really any girls here?]
From what I observe, Parallax's staff is very diligent at·.....
First, trying to address all safety issues immediately and fully.
Second, trying to make sure that you get product satisfaction.· If you bought something and it doesn't work, you really should directly e-mail support, but some of us come here instead.
Third, just about anything that is reasonably in the ball park and not rude, incoherent,·or absurd.
As you can see, fun comes at a slower pace.
~~~~~~~~
Since I spend a lot of time here, I try to help out when I have good knowledge and I try to keep my mouth shut when I don't know anything.·I don't alway succeed [noparse][[/noparse]and occasionaly apologize].·I figure that by teaching, I learn more.· And by helping support, I pay my own way for using the Forum.· It is not all take.
There is a lot of generous people here and I don't think money along can buy the kind of support you can get.
So, I guess I am just trying to say Thank You to all.· Over the past year since I have joined, I haven't built anywhere near all my dreams, but I have learned a tremendous amount and continue to enjoy doing so.
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
Comments
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·1+1=10
Well, two years ago the female sector of our office demanded that we add to our business plan "Increase the number of Parallax products sold to women" since they are a powerful buying force. This actually had a positive effect. Since half of our sales staff and more than half of marketing are women they've picked them out in e-mail inquiries, phone calls, and customer visits (like the Stamps in Class trainings) for preferential treatment. Women certainly get favorable treatment from our staff. I'd bet that our female customer base has gone from 1% about three years ago to a whopping 4% today as a result of this effort. Get a sex change and we'll send you some more free products too.
Anyway, just picked up a new Honda GX35 mini 4-stroke engine at the local Honda dealer so I must get back to my snow robot project.
- Ken
I will mention your 'free products for those having undergone a sex change' to an ex-roomate [noparse][[/noparse]circa 1985 - it is a long story]. Needless to say, she is no longer Mike. She certainly has the technical knowledge for it.
That snow project has me very curious. Wheels? Tracks? Legs? or Skis? Then again, you might be making snow. I guess we will just have to wait until you really have us all curious.
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=549755
(his post 9/14/2005 9:21 PM has a brief summery)
There is also someone who completed a tracked snow robot, but I can't find the thread, Ill be happy when the new search engine comes online.
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·1+1=10
I'm not sufficiently adept at using the forum search engine to retieve past posts, but I do keep everything that crosses any of these forums locally, as I have always done, thus I can search to my heart's content on my own hard drive, and usually find exactly what I'm looking for. Unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily give me a URL to pass on to others for reference<sigh>. I also haven't figured out how to grab a forum URL for a post sitting right in front of me <argh!>.
With that in mind, here are some search criterian for a message posted in July which is sketchy at first, but goes into greater detail later (as I remember), regarding a snow cat with which the poster was intimately familiar, since he was one of the contributors or participants in its construction. The initial sketchiness is due to the construction participant not wanting to divulge what may have been confidential information since it involved a government sponsored project, not for lack of effort or desire. Here are the particulars:
Parallax Fourm Sub-Section: "Stamps"
Date and Time of Posting: 18 JULY 2005 6:02 PM (approx)
Poster: "Yanroy"
Subject of Post: "PULSOUT doesn't produce any signal" (obviously hijacked)
I hope that's enough to find it on the Stamp Forum!
Regards,
Bruce Bates
Bruce, searching by poster is a more reliable means of using the search function, I just searched Yanroy in Basic Stamp forum and scrolled until I found the correct thread.
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I figured that someone who was more adept at using it could find it based on the information I offered. NOW for the REAL question, once you found that post, how in he?? did you "turn it into" a URL? That part BAFFLES ME unmercifully!
TIA
Bruce
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Okay to that, which answers a sort of an unasked question that I DID need an answer to. However. if one has the "sheet" (aka web page) of postings in front of one, how does one "pick one" and obtain the URL to it (alone)? I can suppose that one way to do it (which I haven't yet tried) is to "pretend" to reply to it, grab the URL, and then back out of the reply facility. There HAS to be another, better, or more appropriate way to isolate one posting from the "sheet"?
<mount soapbox>
The following is NOT directed "at you", Paul - honestly. Sometime we all need a moment to vent our frustrations! If it isn't obvious YET, I HATE web forums with an infinite passion. I can easily reply to 2-3 messages every few minutes with an email oriented list, as I have effectively done for the last THIRTY YEARS of BBS and Internet use! However, on a web based forum, it takes me a good 3-5 minutes, JUST to get TO the messages in question (after closing down one or two other active windows I was using at the time on my computer) just to enter the forum (this one as well as many others), then constructing the reply, proof reading it for spelling and grammer, posting it 2-3 times in succession just to get the damned formatting right due to the HTML bastardization of any spacing or simple formatting you TRY to insert, and then letting it loose for "publication". What a total WASTE of TIME!
On any email oriented list, all of the aforementioned "features" (spelling, grammer, formatting, etc) are all but done FOR ME, by the software I have on my computer, and because these features are an integral part of my email client (Eudora!). As I continue to lament, "This is PROGRESS?" <sigh>. I, for one, think NOT!
Just so I don't sound like a "total loser" or hopeless neophyte, unwilling to learn or change, I'm drafting this present reply with a rigid carpal tunnel wrist support on my left (dominant) wrist, and and am additionally hampered by a rigid back brace as well <deep sigh>. Such is life I guess, as one (not so) gracefully "ages" <cough, cough>.
In closing, this is one of the many reasons why if someone like my dear friend SPENCE wants to post in UPPER CASE ONLY, or in 20 point font for that matter. I have ABSOLUTELY no problem with it, since it's effectively one of many coping mechanisms for those of us who are temporarily or permanently, partially handicapped, and TO HELL with Internet ettiquite, in isolated cases like that. BTW I've NEVER seen SPENCE (or others) do anything but APOLOGIZE ahead of time, for their seeming breach of Internet ettiquite. Why he and other do so, is simply a testament to their social awareness, and a stated willingness to othwise "conform"!
<flame off> <down from soapboax>
TIA
Bruce
Post Edited (Bruce Bates) : 10/18/2005 6:51:31 PM GMT
the base of all thread links are: http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx
the second field is the forum # in '?f=#' format where # is:
1····Test Forum
3··· Announcements
5··· Basic Stamp
6··· Stamps in Class
7··· SX Microcontrollers, SX/B Compiler and SX-Key Tool
8··· Javalin Stamps
10· Robotics···
13· Support
15· Sandbox
21· Projects
22· ParallaxEFX
There are some hidden forums (not shown) in the list that assumably are internal Parallax forums and not accessable to ordinary users.
so the link for the first page of this forum is http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=13
then a thread is is format '&m=#' where # is the thread number, obtainable from the &m=# in the "Subscribe to this thread" and "Show Newest Post First" links at the top of the thread.
This thread is # 91906 so the link for this thread is http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=553837
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May I join you on your soapbox? Is there room for another? I couldn't agree with you more regarding an e-mail based list verses a web based forum! I use Eudora too and miss my sorely needed spell check as I type into the web based reply window. I can reply more quickly and accurately through the software based localy on my computer. I agree that the internet ettiquite is out of hand too -- why not use the technology at hand to make things easier to read with larger fonts as in the case with SPENCE and the rest of us who appreciate it too??!!! That's all I've got. I just wanted to let you know that I thought you spoke well and that there are those who agree with you.
Tim
P.S. By the way, I share a fairily severe back problem·as well,·and like you I'm sure,·like to limit·the continuous·time spent in a chair to as little as possible without at least a 'walk around' break.
P.P.S.·Please understand that I hold this forum in very high regard, and am more appreciative than any of you may know, for so many things that I have learned and been able to share·here.· My comments are simply in preference to an e-mail based experience verses a web based one and DO NOT have to do with the members or·content in any way.
Post Edited (Tim-M) : 10/19/2005 2:48:49 PM GMT
·· Obviously my reply is going to sound biased at best since I work here, but I was a customer once too, and one thing the e-mail lists didn't handle was all the Code attachments and pictures (Especially inline pictures).· Now a lot of people may not find that to be that big of a deal.· But many do.· I especially appreciate the ability to have a sticky thread at the top of a forum for the software and code updates, which can be changed without re-posting a new message with a different version of the code attached.· This keeps people from reading an older message and downloading an older, out-dated version of the code.
·· Having inline pictures helps to better illustrate some of the tutorial posts made by Andy Lindsay in the Stamps In Class Forum (Not to mention others).· These aren't supported by all e-mail clients, and attachments can make e-mail a problem for some people.· Finally, at least with the Yahoo Groups, when I subscribed via e-mail, my biggest problem was getting replies before I ever got the original message.· Sometimes I would reply to a message, and delays would cause 5 or 10 people to post the same reply to the same message, causing a lot of redundant messages.· Just my 2 cents.
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
csavage@parallax.com
Tim
In 30+ years of using BBS's (my own and others) and 20+ years of using email list servers, I've never found the necessity of including an inline picture. OTOH about 75% of the garbage and SPAM I get does use that facility. I've found that attachments (zipped if necessary) serve all my needs, and have almost always been acceptable on the list servers I've used. On those lists where it wasn't (Ex. Parallax Yahoo Groups) there was a files area and a pictures area for common use, unlike this web based forum which has no such facility.
The single biggest problem with email list servers and using them to their full potential, is the choice of a robust email client. Therein, anyone who confines themselves to Outlook or Outlook Express is destined to only have the facilities that MICROSOFT deems necessary.
There are many robust email clients available without charge, Eudora being one of the best, if not the best, but I too am biased. It's not a matter of whether a person can pay for email client software, it's the willingness to learn it, and use it to its full potential.
Finally, properly threaded outbound messages from the list server all but eliminates any out of sequence messaging within a matter of minutes. It's just too bad that many list server admins don't understand the importance of threading, and thus leave it turned off. So too, there are users who don't turn ON 'respect threading' or whatever their email client requires to recognize and utilize it. Just for the record, threading is SMTP recognized.
I can't believe it's taking me 10 minutes just to open a separate window, log in to this forum, compose, check and then submit this silly message. This should have been less than a 2 minute task. Progress this is NOT.
Regards,
Bruce Bates
··· I don't want to argue your point, especially over sematics, and that is not my intention.· But in regards to yahoo Groups providing a files area and pictures area, there are two points to consider there.· First of all it still means leaving the safety and comfort of your e-mail client to go there and get the files and or pictures.· And second, and this is the problem I had with Yahoo in the Groups, not e-mail...The pictures and files were never attached in any way to the thread that prompted.· Often there was nothing more than a one line description of what the picture or file was for, and certainly no way to link it to a message thread so that a person could easily get the file and/or picture.
·· As for inline pictures, this has nothing to do with SPAM.· That is akin to relating pop-ups to SPAM, something they were never designed for, but that spAmmers exploit greatly.· But then, aren't they also exploiting security holes in the O/S and in web browsers and e-mail clients?· As are virii.· Inline pictures are especially useful in tutorial messages, where inserting a picture in the text can help illustrate the concept being explained.· Perhaps this comes easy to you without illsutration, but many customers have asked for diagrams to explain how something is done.· Many people need a visual aid, and that is provided here.
·· And just as a side-note...I have been online since 1982, when I bought a 300bps modem for my VIC-20, then had to write my own simple terminal software to access a local BBS that a friend sent me to.· By 1990 I had written my own working C=64 BBS software and had a PC version under way called, WKBBS.· This is software I wrote from scratch, circumventing all the things used against existing software to crash it or hack it.· But I also went through great pains to provide abilities that weren't in traditional BBS packages.· And let's not forget, it take no more time to log into a forum that it did into a dial-up BBS.· In fact, for people with high-speed it takes a lot less.
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
csavage@parallax.com
As regards your first point:
"·· I don't want to argue your point, especially over sematics, and that is not my intention.· But in regards to yahoo Groups providing a files area and pictures area, there are two points to consider there.· First of all it still means leaving the safety and comfort of your e-mail client to go there and get the files and or pictures.· And second, and this is the problem I had with Yahoo in the Groups, not e-mail...The pictures and files were never attached in any way to the thread that prompted.· Often there was nothing more than a one line description of what the picture or file was for, and certainly no way to link it to a message thread so that a person could easily get the file and/or picture."
Don't worry about making a semantical argument, there was none. The ONLY reason that "problem"·you posit even existed was due to the Forum Owner's desire NOT to permit attachments; no more and no less. Had attachments been allowed, as they do on the Yahoo Groups I administrate, all would have been in a nice tidy package, the way it ought to be, including any diagrams which might be needed for the text explanation.
If your next argument deals with virus attachments, don't bother, since that's the ultimate responsibility of the computer owner, and not the responsibility of the Forum Owner. The Forum Owner only attempts due diligence, with no guarantees.
On your second point:
"As for inline pictures, this has nothing to do with SPAM.· That is akin to relating pop-ups to SPAM, something they were never designed for, but that spammers exploit greatly.· But then, aren't they also exploiting security holes in the O/S and in web browsers and e-mail clients?· As are virii.· Inline pictures are especially useful in tutorial messages, where inserting a picture in the text can help illustrate the concept being explained.· Perhaps this comes easy to you without illsutration, but many customers have asked for diagrams to explain how something is done.· Many people need a visual aid, and that is provided here."
What I said was I only found inline pictures IN the SPAM _I_ _GET_, and nowhere else INCLUDING the output from THIS Stamp Forum! I never equated the two, nor did I·intend to do so. Where and how pop-ups got into this discussion I'll never know, but I never see them since all pop-ups are blocked on my computers unless I choose to view them. See my first response above regarding attachement·as the no-brainer solution for diagrams, etc.
Let's face facts, as a Parallax employee, you can only have one position, and you've made that·abundantly clear. Indeed you said you were biased, and it certainly shows. Some of us weren't forced to drink the grape juice :-0
This is my last on this subject, as it's beginning to waste both resources and time and nothing constructive is being accomplished as far as I can see. I know you have my regular email address so feel free!
Web based forums may work well for those with multi-gigahertz CPU's, huge amounts of main memory, and high-speed broadband connections (read: monied users). For those that may be handicapped, those who have older, slower machines which have smaller amounts of main memory, these <!--StartFragment -->behemoths are a real burden, but who the hell cares about the "little guy"? <sigh> I, for one,·unsubscribed from·every other list of which I was a member when they migrated to the web based format, except this one. I honestly can't say why I stayed here, but I did. It's not like I didn't fight like hell against it!
Regards,
Bruce Bates
This forum is hosted by Parallax, at no cost to the users.
Because it is controlled entirely by Parallax, there is no SPAM, and there is no name calling, out of hand flame wars, etc.
Most importantly, questions are answered promplty, and often by Parallax employees and representatives.
Everyone will have their "favorite" technology to use for this type of thing. They (like I) feel the world would be a better place if only everyone used their personal choice of forum/bbs/mailing list. (This is not my favorite, and if everyone used mine, there would be world peace, happiness and total contentment.
Successful and useful forums are not determined by the technology used, but by the users, moderators and information found on them.
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John R.
8 + 8 = 10
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ENIAC: P4 2.8ghz E, 1024MB PC3200 Dual Channel 800MHZ, P4C800E-Deluxe, ATI X800XL, 120GB Sata WD HDD, Audigy 2 ZS Sound, AMG 1080 Antec case, Bose TriPort Headphones.· Running on Windows XP Pro SP 2.
Monitor: Samsung SyncMaster 930B
That is why I consider Parallax Forums my main source of help with robotics and electronics-related issues.
RoboGeek
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world,
those that know binary and those that don't.
Formerly bugg.
www.goldmine-elec.com
www.parallax.com
www.expresspcb.com
www.startrek.com
·