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Programming Question — Parallax Forums

Programming Question

smt52smt52 Posts: 11
edited 2005-08-05 05:27 in General Discussion
We are going into large scale production with a product based on the SX48.

Is there any way to automatically call the programming via a 3rd party application, such as Labview? Perhaps some way of calling the programming algorithm for COM1 via the command line in dos?

Regards,
Shane.

Post Edited By Moderator (Chris Savage (Parallax)) : 7/31/2005 5:11:18 AM GMT

Comments

  • TD-LinuxTD-Linux Posts: 33
    edited 2005-08-03 18:15
    Hmm... this ought to be in the SX-Key documentation. It isn't? Hmm... it might not be a feature yet.

    Just by messing around, I found doing "sxkey filename.src" would open filename.src. I don't know of any command line options to do an automatic programming yet.
  • smt52smt52 Posts: 11
    edited 2005-08-03 20:11
    Thanks, this will help partially.

    However, we dont want to release our source code to the manufacturer - is there any way to give them the object file, not the source?
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2005-08-03 20:20
    In theory it seems like you should be able to do what you want, but Im not sure if the SX-IDE has that functionality. You might be successful in convincing Parallax to realease the serial protocol for communicating with the SX-Key. Problem is, I dont think the SX-IDE produces object files which are saved to disk, though you could generate an object file by parsing the list file.·Ill sniff around tonight to see if the existing IDE can help you in your task, I just don't know at this point.

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    ·1+1=10
  • Guenther DaubachGuenther Daubach Posts: 1,321
    edited 2005-08-03 20:50
    Shane,

    another (but much more expensive) option would be to use one of the universal programmers and testers available. More and more of them support SX chips in the meantime. I own an ALL-11 Universal Programmer & Tester from HiLo Systems, and it works nicely for mass programming. Be aware that you can't use it for in-system programming, i.e. you need to insert the SX into the programmer's ZIF socket, and then press a button to start the automatic programming and verification sequence.

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    Greetings from Germany,

    G
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2005-08-03 20:51
    When your code is working, compile it, go to Run\Device and click on "Save HEX" to save the file in that format.· This file can be reloaded and programmed into the device with the same dialog.· Note that SX/B includes the ID directive now (since 1.3); this is very useful as it will be included in the hex file.

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    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
  • TD-LinuxTD-Linux Posts: 33
    edited 2005-08-03 20:52
    It seems that the SX-Key IDE has no more command line options. Make sure to copyright your code and sign an agreement with the manufacturer to not use the source code in any other way but what you want. Then, at least you can sue. [noparse];)[/noparse]

    I highly doubt the IDE has this functionality that Paul Baker talks about. However, it would be very easy to add, and Parallax will probably add it because it is necessary for production - a major source of profit.

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    SX-Key + SX52 + Proto Board + SX-Key Software + Computer + USB to Serial Adapter + LED = Blinky LED!
  • James NewtonJames Newton Posts: 329
    edited 2005-08-04 07:38
    Look, again, on SXList.com there is everything you are asking for. There is a QBASIC program for the SXKey that could easily be adapted to command line operation.

    And thier must be 1,000 programmers that support the SX. Many of them listed on sxlist.com, but why not start with:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=sx+programmer

    Why do people assume that parallax is the only place for information on the SX? Parallax can't hope to keep up with all the information that is available out there... They (rightly) focus on thier own products.

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    ---
    James Newton, Host of SXList.com
    james at sxlist,com 1-619-652-0593 fax:1-208-279-8767
    SX FAQ / Code / Tutorials / Documentation:
    http://www.sxlist.com Pick faster!



  • smt52smt52 Posts: 11
    edited 2005-08-04 21:52
    Well, we already have three (thats 3) SXkey programmers - we want to explore the remaining options before switching to another programmer.

    As for the QBasic program, I believe its not Windows XP compatible - it uses direct accesses to COM1 (port 0x3F8). It isn't compatible with the SX48, and was last updated in '99.

    Why, oh why oh why dont they just add a "program now" command line option to the SXkey software? Theres already an option to specify the .hex file. You've had *six* years to sort this one out!!

    (I, Shane, decided to delete the previous comment I made at this point about "sanitization", as it is incorrect)

    Shane.

    Post Edited (smt52) : 8/5/2005 6:44:12 AM GMT
  • Guenther DaubachGuenther Daubach Posts: 1,321
    edited 2005-08-04 23:14
    Hey Guys,

    I think there is no real reason for heating up this thread.

    Let me try to nail it down to the point:

    Fortunatley (for Parallax and Ubicom), there are people/companies around, intending to use SX chips for commercial (hopefully) mass projects. Maybe, I'm just a "minor player" in this area, because I have only shipped around 1000 SX-related products out of the door so far. I'm sure, there will be others selling volumes I never can compete with.

    So far, I programmed all my SX chips with the SX-Key attached to an SXTech board using the SX-Key IDE, by simply hitting Ctrl-P to launch a new programming session. It's that simple.

    If there were an IDE command-line option available to launch the programming cycle, you would still need some way to "tell" the batch file to start a new programming session - so why don't you just use the IDE as it is, and hit Ctrl-P, or click the "Program" shortcut for the next programming cycle?

    As I had mentioned in another message, there is always an option to use one of the much more expensive universal programmers available in the market. I own an ALL-11 Programmer from HiLo Systems. Although it supports the SX devices, I prefer using the SX-Key for programming, using the ALL-11 for PICs (Shame on me), and various EPROMS.

    10-1 = 1

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    Greetings from Germany,

    G
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2005-08-04 23:15
    I've asked our Engineering department if we have a protocol specification that is suitable for public release and will enable SMT52 (and others) to create a *production* programmer that uses the SX-Key hardware.

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    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-08-04 23:19
    smt52 said...(trimmed)
    And, Chris Savage or James Newton, are you going to edit this post to "sanitise" it like you did last time?
    I think you should re-read your original post.· Nothing was changed.·· You didn't take a moment to put a Subject in your message, something that will cause many people to pass it right over.· All I did was add one.· If that is santizing your message I apologize, but forum guidelines clearly state to put a meaningful subject in your post.· I was actually trying to help.
    ·

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    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com


    Post Edited (Chris Savage (Parallax)) : 8/4/2005 11:28:22 PM GMT
  • smt52smt52 Posts: 11
    edited 2005-08-04 23:50
    Hi Chris,

    You're right - perhaps the wording I used was a little strong.

    Scenix chips are fast, nice, cheap, and good to work with - and Parallax tech support and shipping time is excellent. If the SXkey software had console support for production programming we would consider Scenix for more than just the current product (which has preorders for 250 units, and is going to move >3000 units over the next three years).

    Console support? It would be a matter of adding a "-p" switch to the SXkey software to do a "program now" on the .hex file. The SXkey software already has support for specifying the .hex file and the COM port.

    Adding console support would allow integration into our existing Labview test/programming jig.

    Shane.

    Post Edited (smt52) : 8/5/2005 12:11:23 AM GMT
  • smt52smt52 Posts: 11
    edited 2005-08-05 00:21
    Hi,

    Could the kind folks at Parallax contact Peter Montgomery regarding the addition of the command line programming option?

    Peter Montgomery did release the Delphi source code for v1.31 of his SXkey software (see sxlist for Peter Montgomerys home page); I do have 8 years Delphi experience, so I could do the software mod myself.

    Would there be any way to get the source code for the latest version of the SXkey, given that v1.31 is a very early version?

    Shane.
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,407
    edited 2005-08-05 00:50
    Shane -

    We're on it already. I'd like to see a command line support interface as well.

    Also, the full programming specification is available for download here: http://www.parallax.com/sx/downloads.asp

    Will get back to you on the command-line interface.

    - Ken
  • smt52smt52 Posts: 11
    edited 2005-08-05 00:53
    Hi,

    Brilliant! Thankyou for the quick work (Parallax tech support is superb!), we will go ahead with the final design on our programming/test jig in Labview now.

    Shane.
  • Brian RileyBrian Riley Posts: 626
    edited 2005-08-05 01:28
    Ken Gracey (Parallax) said...
    Shane -

    We're on it already. I'd like to see a command line support interface as well.

    Also, the full programming specification is available for download here: http://www.parallax.com/sx/downloads.asp

    Will get back to you on the command-line interface.

    - Ken

    This is what makes Parallax so great to deal with .... even the man at the top pays attention and moves quickly when the situation calls for it!

    Bravo!


    cheers ... brian riley, n1bq, underhil center, vermonty
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  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,407
    edited 2005-08-05 04:41
    Shane,

    Peter is on board with a plan which includes·a simple command-line interface as you've requested. At the same time,·we are·considering a multi-part programming interface in the SX-Key software as shown below in the screen capture.·This "bigger plan"·won't derail our immediate needs for your command-line interface, so you should see it first. Or, as you mentioned, you could use the open-sourced SX-Key IDE to do this yourself. But,·in all honesty, if you let us provide you with what you need [noparse][[/noparse]along with the other customers in the same situation] you'll likely get it quicker. And, we'll pay for it while you can keep your SX chip product moving towards production.

    We've·not talked about a specific schedule yet, but should have one soon.

    Sincerely,

    Ken Gracey
    Parallax, Inc.

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  • smt52smt52 Posts: 11
    edited 2005-08-05 05:27
    Hi,

    Brilliant! Parallax is certainly moving quickly towards an excellent solution on this one. Looking forward to the release. If we give you our Labview interface to our SXkey, you could perhaps publish it on the your website to enable other customers to easily move into production.

    Shane.
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