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is there ANYTHING the FCC doesn't stop?? — Parallax Forums

is there ANYTHING the FCC doesn't stop??

WhelzornWhelzorn Posts: 256
edited 2005-05-13 03:28 in General Discussion
Ok, this is half a question, half venting steam. I was piloting a small robot I made a while back the other day, when the cheap radio I ripped out of an RC car blew a transistor due to my improper wiring. Well, I thought, how else might I go about controlling this thing? So, I found a 100mhz oscillator I bought from jameco a while back and built a transmitter using a BS2 and the oscillator, and a reciever using a cheap FM radio that I got from the town dump. Well, it worked quite flawlessly, until someone walking down the road with their headphones and a radio noticed every time I turned the transmitter on, the station she listened to got a tiny bit fuzzy, so naturally started to conplain to me about it, thouroughly explaining that it was obviously against FCC regulations because it interfered with an FM band. I immidiately went and looked for FCC regulations and found that what I was doing was indeed illigal, and there was nothing I could do about it. So my question for you all is when does it go too far? in my fathers day, you could transmit 97.5mhz (popular country station) at probably 10,000 watts, and nobody would give a Smile. So the question part of this is what the hell can I do? I need a way to control the thing, and normally i would just keep doing it, but this lady just moved in and walks by EVERY day!!

looking for some witty opinions

Thanks, Justin

Comments

  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2005-05-10 21:37
    While you may not like the regulations, there's a good reason they are there. They are to protect the commercial investment of companies which use the frequency. The FCC isn't big brother, just a regulatory agency. They don't go out with big black vans scanning the dial for renegade stations, but rely on tips provided by citizens and corporations before engaging in such "hunting" activities. You unfortunately have a busy body that moved into your neighborhood which likes to concern herself with unimportant issues (I know way too many of these types (my X's mother used to spy on her neighbors with a camcorder hoping to catch them in violation of the neighborhood's charter)). Why not just purchase an oscillator for an authorised band such as 47, 315, 433.92, 418 or 916.5 MHz?
  • WhelzornWhelzorn Posts: 256
    edited 2005-05-10 21:43
    Well, that answers my question part of that, what bands I CAN use. It's good to know that those 3 are free, but are those just general purpose anybody can use bands? or do I need a license for them? and yes, I do understand the reason the regulations are there, and I kow I wouldn't like it if someone started using 107.1Mhz for their dog's shock collar or something, but I was using less than 10watts for this. If she was another 10 ft away from me, it wouldn't have even been noticeable...

    anyway, thanks for the info, the problem is that those oscillators are either hard to find, or don't exist, so I have to go through the trouble of building a frequency divider or something...

    (BTW, isn't filming people without their permission illigal?)
  • MacGeek117MacGeek117 Posts: 747
    edited 2005-05-10 21:52
    Welzorn said...(BTW, isn't filming people without their permission illigal?)
    I believe so.
    bugg

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  • nick bernardnick bernard Posts: 329
    edited 2005-05-10 21:57
    the xmas light nuts in my town xmit christmas tunes and info @ FM for people to listen while passing by in thier big fancy cars, they dont have a licence. i think you can xmit FM @ low power, but what the hell do i know.

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  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2005-05-10 22:09
    No liscense is required to use those bands, however there likely is an upper limit on what power you can transmit at. You may want to look into walkie talkie crystals, they may have some of the frequencies I listed (Im pretty sure the 915 band is availible).

    Low power FM is illeagal above some _very_ small wattage (Mr Microphone is an example of an allowable xmitter, but it only broadcasts about 9 ft), the xmas light nuts are clearly operating an illeagal station, but if noone complains, they will not be investigated. There are micro power FM stations, but these require a licence from the FCC to operate and the commercial industry is lobbying very hard to prevent the FCC from authorizing further liscences (I think there are between 1 and 2 dozen of these stations in existance and they are all in extremely rural areas)
    bugg said...
    Welzorn said...(BTW, isn't filming people without their permission illigal?)
    I believe so.
    bugg

    Actually in this instance no, she was videotaping the outside of neighbor's homes from inside hers, since she was videotaping a public space (viewable by anyone standing on the street) it is not in violation of Florida's laws. She "caught" a neighbor installing a window·A/C unit in thier garage (against the charter's rules) and reported them. She didn't submit the videotape since the evidence was clearly viewable from the street, so the issue wasn't broached.
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2005-05-10 22:10
    Whelzorn said...

    (BTW, isn't filming people without their permission illigal?)
    Not if they're in public.· If this weren't the case, documentary filmmakers would never get anything done.· I'm an actor and part-time filmmaker, so I've checked into this.

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    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
    Dallas, TX· USA


    Post Edited (Jon Williams) : 5/10/2005 10:13:36 PM GMT
  • Ryan ClarkeRyan Clarke Posts: 738
    edited 2005-05-10 22:38
    I was under the impression that LPFM was allowing up to 1 watt....and did my original post get deleted?

    Ryan
  • Ryan ClarkeRyan Clarke Posts: 738
    edited 2005-05-10 22:41
    Check here: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/lpfm/

    It is 100W or less, and yes, you have to apply for them..but my original question was if you had an LPFM, is it illegal to interfere with your own signal? (Strange question, I know, but I am going somewhere with this)-

    Ryan
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2005-05-10 22:52
    Ok so there are alot more LPFM stations than I was led to believe, LPFM is for NPOs only (non-profit organization) and not availible for use by an individual and the station must fufill a community need, use of the band for things other than FM broadcasting of audio is not permitted.
  • bobledouxbobledoux Posts: 187
    edited 2005-05-10 23:20
    Am I mistaken?

    I though 315mhz is legal only for pulse control operation where the control pulse does not occur more often than once every 30 seconds. Examples, garage door openers and remote barbeque temperature gauges.
  • steve_bsteve_b Posts: 1,563
    edited 2005-05-10 23:35
    Whelzorn said...

    (BTW, isn't filming people without their permission illigal?)

    I've heard that you can video tape them but not their voice (without permission).

    Up here in Canada, as a Ham radio guy, I can build receivers in any band (I'm not transmitting, so no worry about interference--normally; cross-mod interference maybe).
    Anyhow, since you are the person that build/mod'd the transmitter, it's totally up to you to make sure you don't interfere with other equipment.
    If you are found to be doing this maliciously, you may see a fine or jail time....not many instances of this, a warning usually is enough.
    You can easier buy/build some notch/comb filters that will stop you from transmitting spuriously (transmitting not just on your frequency, but on others...known as harmonic orders or something1 lol).

    As far as transmitting in "free" bands, this is great for not needing licenses, but you won't be the only on the band and you are typically restricted in power.
    There are bands set aside for RC toys/gear....I don't think you are legally allowed to alter the power/frequency of FCC approved devices although repairing broken components is alright.
    Just letting you know!!
    But I might be wrong!

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  • SofalogicSofalogic Posts: 49
    edited 2005-05-11 02:48
    Hi guys:

    Transmitting on FM for the xmas lights is probably done at about 25 - 50 Mw. This is legal as long as a few guidelines are followed. the antenna cannot be more than 4 ft from the transmitter and the length has to be less than nine feet. Maybe the nine feet is the am band. Anyhow part 97 of the fcc creed covers this. The specs have actually been relaxed a bit from the restrictions of the 70's and early 80's. I have a small ramsey's fm 100 that I use around my three acres. It comes in handy when I want to listen to sirius network audio from my dish. I just located my antenna to get line of sight to the acreage. I put on the all 80's and go to work. However, interference ( noise) being introduced into the broadcast band is a no-no. The FCC is so strapped and downsized that I doubt anything will happen. The LPFM program has become a nightmare. PBS doesn't want any competition close to it's frequencies which has made license grants rather limited.

    sofa
  • paysonbadboypaysonbadboy Posts: 81
    edited 2005-05-11 03:20
    devil.gif·· F.C.C.=·F______ Communication Cops!

    At least that is what I was told. Does it stand for something else??? tongue.gif


    So couldn't you just drift your desired frequency off a little bit, or I wonder if it was dirty or powerful enough to be actually messing with her, what's it called, intermediate frequency or whatever the FM radio does.
    It's been a while since·I studied anything on FM radios and never really did anything with it myself.

    On a smililar note, on the flip side I had one of those FM modulated 10 disc CD changers some years back. Two selectable frequencies you could use. the thing pi$$ed me off, because BOTH frequencies were some stations sounding like they were from Mexico and every time I'd turn off the modulator I'd get that mexican Polka music really loud from my car!

    So I played with the modulator and succesfully changed the frequency by ways of the Golden Screwdriver!

    Thought you could do the same thing, but on your end.

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    Post Edited (paysonbadboy) : 5/11/2005 5:40:44 AM GMT
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2005-05-11 08:20
    Going off on a tangent here...

    A few years ago I was on a RC-plane meetand noticed something.
    By the entrance to the area was a big metal bucket with the smashed up remains of toy walkie talkies, a sledhge-hammer and a big warning: 'Any transmitters NOT approved of by the organisers that is found switched on WILL be destroyed'

    Back then there were still a lot of 27MHz AM RC-controls in use in planes, and the walkies was just coming out. (The other frequencies that were in use were 35, 42 and 75MHz FM)
    The fear was that one of those toys would make someone lose control of his RC-plane and cause an accident. (You do not want to be hit by a RC-plane)

    They would also have crushed RC-control transmitters if the owners had been stupid enough to not 'peg out' first.
    (There was a big board with clothespegs hanging from nails. If you wanted to use your transmitter you had to find a peg marked with the frequency you wanted to use and clip it onto your antenna. If the peg wasn't on the board, someone else was using that frequency and you either had to track him down and hear if he was willing to share, or switch crystals in your set to use another frequency)
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2005-05-11 12:37
    How about getting getting 12 crystals of 6 different frequencies for $16? Availible at Radio Shack, go figure.
  • WhelzornWhelzorn Posts: 256
    edited 2005-05-12 01:04
    *sigh* I miss the old radio shack... you know, the one that would market those as crystals for any hobbyist project. Now the only way to get xtals from radio shack is to buy a twelve pack of "XMODS™ Custom RC Racing Crystal Set" (as if the ONLY purpose of a 27.XXmhz xtal is to stick in your XMODS car (cant be just any RC device) and make it work), and you probably only need one of those sets of xtals. Instead you get a bunch you don't need, and they all have the XMODS™ logo slapped on them. Radio shack has hit an all time low for hobbyists, but I'm sure its great for your grandma when she needs an alarm clock.

    Post Edited (Whelzorn) : 5/12/2005 1:10:44 AM GMT
  • paysonbadboypaysonbadboy Posts: 81
    edited 2005-05-13 03:17
    Several months ago I was buying some IC's and other upplies that were being phased out!

    And a few weeks ago I went to look for a Sharpie (Anti Etch) marker. NOPE! No got. But they still sold it in the PC board etching kit. But no spares!

    Radio Shack is pretty much just Cell Phones, DirecTV, Answering machines, etc for old people. (No offence!) boese009.gif

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  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2005-05-13 03:28
    Like tax law and so many other realms of regulation, the FCC has been codified.

    What that means is that the Legislature writes a law that generally empowers them to create a working set of rules [noparse][[/noparse]a code] and they are held accountible to the law makers.

    This system really generates huge goverment and it becomes costly to interact with it as a single individual. With all the lobbyist and special interest groups, you have to pray that the lawmakers are on the side of the individual. Often that is not the case.

    In sum, the FCC doesn't stop the FDA, the IRS, the ATF, or the DEA. So they pick on the little guy and make him a cowering consumer with no creativity.

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