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leds in series

rrrr Posts: 63
edited 2005-04-19 14:14 in General Discussion
jumpin.gif·i know that this may be a simple question however... if i wire 4 leds in series i know that i should multiply the voltage by the amount of ledsie. (4 leds @3.0 volts in series· would be 12 volts) but do i also want to multiply the current by the amount of leds ie.( 4 leds @20ma would be 80ma) i thought that it stayed at 20 ma. but the leds are very dim when i do this(20ma.) and seem to be right on (bright)with 80ma. i dont want to burn up my leds. thanks for the help...·

Comments

  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2005-04-17 21:20
    What kind of LEDs are you using that needs 3V?
    Most LEDs prefer about 1.5 - 1.6V at 20mA.

    Have you measured the current?

    And the voltage?
  • KenMKenM Posts: 657
    edited 2005-04-17 22:59
    You do not multiply the current. The current will be exactly the same in each LED assuming it is indeed wired in series. 80 mA will likely destroy your 'typical' led.

    When the circuit was connected, did you measure the voltage across one LED, what was the voltage?

    What is the total supply voltage?

    What value series resistor are you using?
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-04-17 23:14
    ·· Many blue LEDs will require close to or greater than 3.0 volts.· Especially in Blue 7-segment displays where there are sometimes more than one element in series.· The current draw however, is still usually 20mA.



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  • rrrr Posts: 63
    edited 2005-04-18 05:56
    her are the specs on the leds in question

    red:
    Forward Voltage (V) : 1.8 ~ 2.2·
    Max Continuous Forward Current : 30mA
    Max Peak Forward Current : 75mA
    yellow:

    Forward Voltage (V) : 1.8 ~ 2.2
    Max Continuous Forward Current : 30mA
    Max Peak Forward Current : 75mA

    i have four in series with along with a resistor in series with them. i am powering them with 12 volts figuring that they can drop the extra voltage....··· At 80 ma. they are really bright and they dont seem to be heating up too much but i have only had them on for·a couple of minutes or so. i am guessing that by your responses i am drastically cutting down there life span but they are definitely not burning out right away... at 30 ma they are bright but not as bright as 80 ma.
    ·
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2005-04-18 07:05
    How big is the resistor?

    And yes, you're cutting down their lifespan...
    (How much depends upon how far ut of recommended range you go.)
  • rrrr Posts: 63
    edited 2005-04-18 08:14
    i am using a 420ohm resistor. but isnt it all relative to how much current my power supply is pushing... my power suply is·outputing ·about 2 amps... and i read a little under 30 ma on my tester (29.1) to be exact...
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2005-04-18 11:45
    A power supplies current rating is the maximum total current that can be supplied without affecting the voltage level (over drawing from a power supply will cause the voltage to sag). This is only a measure of what it is capable, not what it has to put out.

    4 LED in series with a voltage drop of ~2V means a total voltage drop of 8V, supplying the string with 12V means there is 4V overhead, the current through the·LEDs is set by this excess voltage being disipated by your current limiting resistor. If you are using a 420Ω resistor, the current flowing through it is I=V/R or 4/420= 9.5 mA. I just can't see how you are getting near 30mA from this configuration. If you reverse calculate the voltage drop across the resistor (V=IR) or .03x420=12.6V this is larger than your power supply, something isn't correct, are you sure your using a 420Ω resistor?

    Do not operate the LEDs at 80mA, this is beyond thier max rating and you will severly limit the life of them. For maximum lifetime, run them at 30mA or less, or you can PWM them at 75mA 50% duty cycle. Because of the way human eyes work, the PWMed LEDs will appear brighter.

    Post Edited (Paul Baker) : 4/18/2005 11:49:10 AM GMT
  • StarManStarMan Posts: 306
    edited 2005-04-18 17:26
    I posted this last week in another thread.· It's very informative.· Do some reading and also check out the links.

    http://members.misty.com/don/ledx.html
  • rrrr Posts: 63
    edited 2005-04-18 17:56
    i dont understand either but here is whats going on exactly.. my power supply is outputing 12.3 volts exactly says my votometer. the power supply says it has a max rating of 2 amps but really i cannot measure it straight from the power supply because it overloads my voltometer. i am not actually using a 420 ohm resistor but iam using three 75ohm and a 200ohm resistors in serries which reads a 424 ohm resistence from my meter. the current that i read at the leads is 29.1ma. and the votage at the leds is 7.84. i know it seems wierd but this is exactly what i read on my meter. this why i usually physically test circuits rather than using formuals. whats going on is my meter bad????
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-04-18 18:27
    rr,

    ·· With the information you have supplied, the closest standard value resistor would be 150 ohms.· That should give you almost 27mA.

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  • rrrr Posts: 63
    edited 2005-04-18 19:55
    i know what the calculations say it should be (about 150ohm) i went through them all... the specs that i gave are exactly what is happening i fell like my voltometer is not broken but i do not know how to explian what is going on. like i said i am using exactly 424ohms of resentence i dont know how to explian it... but i do know that the leds are seeing 29.1ma which is in ther normal range. your guess is as good as mine... i do appreciate the help...
  • The Dead BugThe Dead Bug Posts: 73
    edited 2005-04-18 20:12
    If you put 12.3 volts across 424 ohms by itself, you will get 29.1 mA. (I = V/R)

    Is that what you are doing?

    If you put 4 LEDs in series using your specifications of 1.8 volts each, you will have 7.2 volts dropped across the LEDs, which leaves only 5.1 volts across the resistor. (12.3 - 7.2)

    Using Ohm's Law for the resistor value gives the necessary value of 175 ohms (R = V / I :·· 5.1V / 29.1 mA)



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    Good Stuff on my Blog: http://theDeadBug.journalspace.com
  • rrrr Posts: 63
    edited 2005-04-19 03:18
    where do i measure the current from. i hook my votometer up to the·last leg of the leds and the first leg of the leds it makes them go out and i get a reading of 29.1ma(after the resistor and the ground) is this the problem??? where should i measure from...
  • KenMKenM Posts: 657
    edited 2005-04-19 04:27
    To measure current you need to insert the meter in series with the circuit.

    You break open the circuit someplace, does not matter where.....insert your meter.

    The meter must be set to current, mA in your case.

    It is very common for the current fuse to be blown especially if your meter is used by others in a shop.

    Don't worry if you meter reads "minus" current. Ignore the minus sign (which indicates the meter leads need to be reversed).

    Post Edited (KenM) : 4/19/2005 2:15:36 PM GMT
    336 x 529 - 11K
  • rrrr Posts: 63
    edited 2005-04-19 05:08
    i see the light!!!! i did not have my multimeter hooked up in the right place all i was reading was the resistence through the power supply... 29.1···

    but really all my leds were seeing was about 10ma.

    i have always put resistors before the leds(on the positive side)...

    i thought that it was weird that when i tryed to read current· the leds would shut off, but i am a beginner.

    i really appreciate the help from everybody, i think i have a much better understanding of leds....
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2005-04-19 13:25
    At least now you know how to measure current. smile.gif

    We've all been beginners, so...

    Anyone interested in a Philips 2050 something, experimenter kit?
    (50 experiments, components could be mounted with springs. Most of the components are now rather... empty of blue smoke... )
  • KenMKenM Posts: 657
    edited 2005-04-19 14:14
    rr said...

    i have always put resistors before the leds(on the positive side)...

    Technically it does not matter where the resistor is in the circuit, it will operate exactly the same no matter where it is placed in series.

    For circuit protection the resistor placement can and should be considered.

    There are two basic ways to configure your LEDs.....they can be "sinked" or "sourced."

    Sinking is simply the controlling circuit provides the ground to turn the LEDs on (hard wired to positive voltage).
    Sourcing is simply the controling circuit provides the +voltage to turn the LEDs on (hard wired to ground).

    For a sourcing circuit, the best protection is to put the LED first, then LED(s) to ground.
    That way, if there is a short to ground in the middle of the series circuit, the current being drawn from the controlling circuit is limited by the resistor, which is usually a safe level.

    The other way around (source LED to ground with no resistor) the current drawn from the controlling circuit will be very high, and likely damage your basic stamp, and maybe the LED.

    For a sinking circuit the same can be said, resistor connected first from positive voltage.

    However, for a·sinking·circuit, some may say the opposite, resistor "last" because if there is a short to power someplace in the middle of the circuit, too much current will be put through the device·controlling the ground.

    A short to power is·probably a lot·less likely to·occur than a short to ground.

    So.....stick·with the resistor as the first component from positive·supply voltage.

    .....end of long winded·potentially confusing explanation....·
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