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BS3??????????? — Parallax Forums

BS3???????????

MacGeek117MacGeek117 Posts: 747
edited 2005-03-28 16:29 in BASIC Stamp
Is there going to be a BS3?
Peter(my real name) said...
Some people have a PS2, I have a BS2.
bugg

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But I canna change the laws of physics, Captain!

Post Edited (bugg) : 3/16/2005 3:18:29 AM GMT

Comments

  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2005-03-16 03:48
    Have you actually mastered the BS2 yet?.... tongue.gif

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    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
    Dallas, TX· USA
  • bishopbishop Posts: 82
    edited 2005-03-16 13:48
    hehehehe.

    hey bugg...what is the bs2 not doing that you hope a bs3 will do?


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    Teksystems Inc.
    www.danwoolston.com
    **************
  • Ray IddingsRay Iddings Posts: 47
    edited 2005-03-16 14:55
    LOL....Wait on a BS3, Im just scratching the surface of the BS2,

    ·
  • MacGeek117MacGeek117 Posts: 747
    edited 2005-03-16 15:41
    Jon, I'm pretty sure I have. I just took the IRRoaming.bs2 program and almost completely rebuilt it for my needs. bishop, as to your question, interupts, maybe.
    bugg

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    But I canna change the laws of physics, Captain!
    bs2
    bs2
    IR #1.bs2
    653B
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2005-03-16 15:48
    Really?.... If that's the case, perhaps you should consider buying an SX Tech kit and giving SX/B a go.

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    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
    Dallas, TX· USA
  • MacGeek117MacGeek117 Posts: 747
    edited 2005-03-16 15:51
    Sorry, Jon. To much money, not enough allowance.(I'm only 14)
    bugg

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    But I canna change the laws of physics, Captain!
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2005-03-16 16:03
    Okay ... with what were you planning to use to purchase a hoped-for BS3?· Your charm?.... tongue.gif

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    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
    Dallas, TX· USA
  • Ryan ClarkeRyan Clarke Posts: 738
    edited 2005-03-16 17:03
    Yes, go with the SX. Learn some assembly. You can justify the cost to your parents (for the dev kit) by showing them the cost of a BS2 vs. an SX chip [noparse];)[/noparse]

    Or you could start rolling your own BS2s.
  • MacGeek117MacGeek117 Posts: 747
    edited 2005-03-16 21:14
    My mom says no. cry.gif Paul, you're right! Jon, could you please supply the schematic for the serial connection.
    bugg

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    But I canna change the laws of physics, Captain!

    Post Edited (bugg) : 3/16/2005 9:18:29 PM GMT
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2005-03-16 21:15
    I'm still betting you can squeeze more out of a BS2.

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    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
    Dallas, TX· USA
  • MacGeek117MacGeek117 Posts: 747
    edited 2005-03-16 21:24
    You're probably right.
    Thanks for the help anyway! cool.gif
    bugg

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    But I canna change the laws of physics, Captain!
  • LarryLarry Posts: 212
    edited 2005-03-17 03:18
    I'll say,

    I think we are letting our friends a Parallax of the hook here let's get a list of the things we think are important in a BS3.

    Here's my quick list

    1) ADC (12 bit at least)- face it for the last few years, no microcontroller hs been complete without it.

    2) true event interrupt

    3) true timer interrupt. - Lots of routines depend on doing things at precise intervals.
    a TCU unit could run these seerate from the main processor.

    4) double precision routines. For now, I'm not sure full 32 bit is necessary, but you ought to be able to do the intermediate computations as 32 bit, the round the results.

    What else?

    Larry

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  • KenMKenM Posts: 657
    edited 2005-03-17 03:33

    4) double precision routines. For now, I'm not sure full 32 bit is necessary, but you ought to be able to do the intermediate computations as 32 bit, the round the results.
    Double precision is available now, thanks to the efforts of Dr. Tracy Allen.

    www.emesystems.com
  • LarryLarry Posts: 212
    edited 2005-03-17 03:52
    Yes, It's very clever, but not fast enough for things like real time navigation or PID routines on a balancing robot. I'm talking about a Basic operator that will do this for you at machine code speeds.



    you wrote>

    4) double precision routines. For now, I'm not sure full 32 bit is necessary, but you ought to be able to do the intermediate computations as 32 bit, the round the results.



    Double precision is available now, thanks to the efforts of Dr. Tracy Allen.

    www.emesystems.com

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  • KenMKenM Posts: 657
    edited 2005-03-17 04:04
    Perhaps it is time to "move up" to the SX
    ·
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2005-03-17 04:23
    KenM said...
    Perhaps it is time to "move up" to the SX
    Agreed, Larry the SX does all of you requests with the exception of number 1, and with the onboard analog comparator an 8 bit ADC can implemented without much hassle. If an ADC were incorporated on a stamp, it would be an external chip, unless they were to adopt a new microcontroller and the development cost to do that would likely be too much to make it profitable. And if they incorporated via external chip, theres no real difference than you doing the same.
  • duckieduckie Posts: 12
    edited 2005-03-17 06:10
    Larry,

    You programed a PID routine? I wouldn't expect the stamp to act fast enough for that. I probably wouldn't even try it myself, rathor invest in 3 op-amps, a pot, and 2 caps
  • LarryLarry Posts: 212
    edited 2005-03-17 08:27
    I have programmed a balancing PID routine on the 16F877 with a compiled Basic and it works just fine. I tried the same thing with as BS2p and it works, but is a bit choppier in action. The BS2p version was up and runing in probably 1/4th the time. That's the beauty of a Stamp. I came up with the wish list largely from this effort.

    I don't agree that ADC can't be implemented economically. Chips exist already from AVR, Microchip, and other vendors that don't cost much more than the 16c57 chip the BS2 is made wth. Some of the newer technology chips are cheaper. Of course, without Parallax's interpreter,none have the convenience of the BS2.

    Addressing the other three items on my list, they all would work much better if implemented in machine codeed Basic words than if the end user has to implement them in interpreted Basic. The interrupts HAVE to be hardware, I think. At least the timer interrupt needs to be running seperate from the interpreter action.

    Besides, I have great faith in the folks at Parallax. At this point, they could come up with their own chip (using FPLD technology, maybe?). Sooner or later, someone will come up with a chip with those features. I hope it's Parallax, then it will be done right.That's why we should all be lobbying here for stuff we think is important.


    Other vendors have platforms running with interpreters now that have all this and more for not any more than a BS2p40. Alas, they aren't in Basic, which makes the learning curve much higher (for a dummy like me, anyway).

    Larry

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  • Bruce BatesBruce Bates Posts: 3,045
    edited 2005-03-17 09:03
    Larry -

    The following excerpt, extracted from your last message, is well worth separating from the rest of this thread:

    "At this point, they could come up with their own chip (using FPLD technology, maybe?). "

    First, you have now exposed "the elephant in the room" that some of us who have been around here for a while had been considering, that might be in the future of the next legion of Stamps, but had been silent about. Personally, I hope you are correct.

    Second, your insight as to direction will probably be seen as prophetic, in a number of the next generation of microcontrollers. I base that on my observations of the industry in general, and noting where a good deal of the present day development monies are being expended.

    Third, if this is indeed the path being considered or being taken by Parallax, we can all be assured, based on their prior efforts, that the final product will not only be well worth the wait, but also be the "best in show" of any that may be offered.

    Just in passing, UBICOM (formerly Scenix) brought to bear the concept of virtual devices on microcontroller platforms. What a pleasing thoguht that would be, to see that move from the present firmware level up one step closer to the higher level software level. Perhaps we need a microcontroller hardware/software prophecy thread smile.gif


    Regards,

    Bruce Bates
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2005-03-17 12:16
    How about a "wish list" thread, then other members can explain how to make your "wishes come true"... (I think I hear disney music...).

    Bean.

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    Check out· the "SX-Video Display Module"

    www.sxvm.com
    ·
  • Jim McCorisonJim McCorison Posts: 359
    edited 2005-03-17 16:35
    An embedded pseudo RTC would be a big plus for many applications. I'm not really talking about a full fledged RTC as those are out there and easy to interface. I'm just thinking of the ability to know, at a minimum, how many clock cycles, or better yet, milliseconds, have elapsed since a check point. Gravy would be the ability to configure the internal timer to be milliseconds, seconds, minutes, etc. I'm thinking of something kind of like this for syntax:

    timeCount  VAR  WORD

TIMER timeCount, 0
do stuff
TIMER timeCount



    The TIMER command would move the existing internally kept time value into the variable argument, and if the optional reset parameter was specified it would then reset the internal timer to that value.

    I don't know enough about the internals of the BS2 to know who accurate this might be, but the SLEEP command makes mention of the watchdog comparing it's own count with a "more-accurate resonator time base". Although the NAP command makes no such compensation which might cause a problem. This may or may not be a possibility for an upgrade to the existing BS2, but if a BS3 were to be created such a capability would be great.

    Jim
  • MacGeek117MacGeek117 Posts: 747
    edited 2005-03-18 01:14
    Multitasking is my big dream. BTW, I'm not looking for any particular function, just info on a BS3.
    bugg

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    But I canna change the laws of physics, Captain!
  • SunflowerSunflower Posts: 48
    edited 2005-03-18 20:13
    The BS2p is a software logic development platform. During my product industrialization I would specify high volume LOW-COST chips like the DS1307 clock, EEPROM, RAM, ADC, etc. So including these functions in one Stamp package would be a step in reverse. Please do not over engineer the Stamp, just keep it up to date with functions like One-Wire and I2C. I have the money and will hire that 14 year old when he understands SX assembly.
  • allanlane5allanlane5 Posts: 3,815
    edited 2005-03-18 20:39
    Gosh, bugg, you are asking after a mythical BS3, when you can't buy one, and haven't plumbed the depths of the BS2, BS2sx, BS2p, not to mention the PIC family in Assembly language, C language, or the SX chip in the SX/B environment, or the C environment.

    I don't know what you are trying to achieve here, except to get and hold the attention of people who post on these forums. Worst case, you might actually distract Jon and Ken and all from upgrading SX/B, or releasing the next cool robot.

    Just a thought.
  • MacGeek117MacGeek117 Posts: 747
    edited 2005-03-20 22:35
    Really, guys, all I wanted to know is if there was even going to be a BS3. I wan't chasing after a feture, just wanted to konw!
    bugg

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    But I canna change the laws of physics, Captain!
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2005-03-20 23:29
    As long as we're living and breathing there will be something new.· Like our customers, we're creative and are always pushing ourselves.· When we have a new product to sell, we'll let you know.

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    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
    Dallas, TX· USA
  • MacGeek117MacGeek117 Posts: 747
    edited 2005-03-21 23:02
    Thank you, Jon! Please do!
    bugg

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    But I canna change the laws of physics, Captain!
  • MacGeek117MacGeek117 Posts: 747
    edited 2005-03-27 21:31
    allanlane5, for Christmas I'm going to get the SX Tool Tech kit and the SX/B compiler.
    bugg

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    Toddler: $249

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  • kb2hapkb2hap Posts: 218
    edited 2005-03-28 16:29
    Dont worry bugg, calm youself. I'm sure the fine people at Parallax have something brewing for you this year

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    DTQ
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