Shop OBEX P1 Docs P2 Docs Learn Events
could someone give me a sugestion what to do? — Parallax Forums

could someone give me a sugestion what to do?

The_N3rdThe_N3rd Posts: 34
edited 2005-03-23 21:11 in BASIC Stamp
hi my name is kelie and i am a 13 year old·boy.·i have just discovered the vast world of microcontrolers.· ive looked at about everything on this site, and am wondering what i should get.· The board of education usb starter kit looked apealing, but would this be the right choice?· I am interested in building r/c robots, and autonomous robots.· i already have a farily decent knowledge of electronics, and building something that can operate by my programing sounds pretty cool. Any sugestions?roll.gifturn.gif

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Missing_Keyboard.jpg
«1

Comments

  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2005-03-11 13:54
    Yes, that it a good kit to get you started. With your background in electronics you will move through the text (What's A Microcontroller?) quickly and before long will be ready to incorporate the BASIC Stamp into your custom projects.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
    Dallas, TX· USA
  • allanlane5allanlane5 Posts: 3,815
    edited 2005-03-11 15:22
    If you have the dollars, you might start with the BOE-Bot full kit.

    On the other hand, you can start with the BOE kit, then add the BOE-Bot parts later. The BOE-Bot kit implements a 2-wheel with 'pivot', Modified Servo driven robot with both 'whisker' and IR collision detection.
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2005-03-11 20:41
    As you're interested in robots, I would agree with Allan, the BOE kit is probably the best to start with.

    Unless you feel up to handling a Toddler, though...

    What's your budget?

    There's a couple of books that might help you out if you want to design your own HardWare:
    The most important one is :
    Robot builder's Bonanza by Gordon McComb

    The others are:
    Building robot drive Trains by Dennis Clark and Michael Owings
    Programming Robot Controllers by Myke Predko
    (The last one mostly deals with the PIC micro, not the BS2, but it can give a few clues as to algorithms)
    All are available on Amazom.com or at least they were a few weeks ago... smile.gif
  • The_N3rdThe_N3rd Posts: 34
    edited 2005-03-12 01:53
    ··· WOW,·I never realized how many responses·I would get.· Well, anyways, thanks for all of the sugestions.· The only thing that I·might have trouble with is money. I don't have a job, or other ways to get money ( right now)·so·I have a tight budget.·Would anyone know where to get the BOE kit, or something similar, but wont cost too much? I checked ebay, but didnt find aything in my price range. Right now·I really can only·spend·around·(give or take [noparse][[/noparse]mostly take])·$50.·
    ···· Me and a few friends·are interested in building·battlebots, so·I checked out·a book·about building them.· I found a section that talked about microcontrolers, and it·talked about the Basic Stamp, and the Boe bot.·It even gave a couple of example programs. So, naturally, i just HAD to·do some research.
    ··· Now, about the basic stamps.·Could someone give me a little bit of a describtion or·a little more info that·isnt quite as complicated. Vin? Vss? sout? it's·sort of confusing.··Are·there any other options·to use and program the stamps rather than the Boe? somthing cheaper?·Other kinds of microcontrolers?
    ···· I know its a lot of questions and·again,·I wanted to again say·Thanks.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    the NERD, Kelie B.
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2005-03-12 12:19
    First, read up on the BS2 in the docs available for download on the Parallax site.

    As for the BOE...
    You don't NEED it to program the BS2. All you really need is a BS2 and a serial cable.
    This of course assumes that your PC has a serial port.

    Noticed that the OEM BS2 kit is on sale right now:
    http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=27291
    If you're not too bad at handling a soldering iron, that could be a good starter kit.

    Unfortunately, with your budget, you won't be able to afford a decent bot-kit, so you may have to scrounge for parts.
    good places for stepper motors and their driver ICs is old inkjet printers and scanners.
    There are also some good mechanical parts in these...
    (Gears, cogs, belts)
    5.25" and 3.5" disk drives also contain steppers. One large, flat one which can be almost impossible to get out, but which can keep a very accurate RPM, and a smaller one with a nice worm-drive.

    If you can find a cheap copy of the Robot Builder's bonanza, or the Building Robot Drive Trains, you shouldn't have too much problems using the scrounged parts.
  • ForrestForrest Posts: 1,341
    edited 2005-03-12 13:09
    Assuming cost is the most important factor, CompUSA is clearing out their stock of the Tab SumoBot for $29.99 www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=317015&pfp=SEARCH
    This is an introductory robot that includes a built-in BS2 - but you'll also need to buy a DB9 straight thru cable such as this one to program the robot www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=800-00003

    If you can't find the Tab SumoBot in stock, the next best inexpensive choice is the What's a Microcntroller BASIC Stamp kit (made by Parallex and sold by Radio Shack) available here www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=&product%5Fid=276%2D625&site=search

    The kit includes a Homework Board (built-in BS2), serial cable, a good project book, and enough parts (including a servo) that will keep you busy for awhile - for $79.99. This kit has a lot more projects than the Tab SumoBot and is a better choice IMHO.
  • allanlane5allanlane5 Posts: 3,815
    edited 2005-03-12 15:36
    Yes, $50 is kind of limiting. Maybe a quick loan from your parents? I'm sorry to be glib, but for $200 you can do SO MUCH MORE with the BOE-Bot.

    I went through something similar to what you're going through. I wanted the most cost-effective platform possible -- I was trying to get something that I could put together for a school class, that would not cost too much yet get reasonable learning out of.

    The BS2 with BOE, while it may seem expensive at $150 or whatever, actually is one of the lowest cost production items you can get, with some of the best support on the www.parallax.com website.

    I started out with the TAB SumoBot -- and if you can get one of those locally for $30 go for it -- it originally retailed at $99. It has a built-in BS2 on-card, so all parallax docs and code and courses work with it. Then you might spring for the Analog and Digital Interfacing class.

    In theory, all you need to buy is a BS2, some Radio Shack prototyping board to plug it into, a serial cable, and a 9-volt 500 mA wall-wart power adapter, and a way to plug that into the prototyping board. In practice, all of this will cost you around $100 anyway, so you might as well go for the packaged solution.

    The OEM developer's version of the BS2 is an option, as that comes with its own board, and costs less than the $50.00 BS2 module. You'll still need the prototyping board and power supply and serial cable, though.
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-03-12 18:58
    I would recommend the Discovery Kit.· At $169.00 it's·great value and comes with the "What's A Microcontroller?" text, which is an excellent starting point for someone new to microcontrollers.· With an OEM Kit there is always the possibility of something happening during assembly.· The link to the Discovery Kit is:



    http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=27207



    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Chris Savage

    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • allanlane5allanlane5 Posts: 3,815
    edited 2005-03-12 19:01
    Yes, Chris, with the BOE, BS2, and parts from "What's a Microcontroller?" (including a Servo, for heaven's sake) this is an excellent starting point, at an excellent price.
  • The_N3rdThe_N3rd Posts: 34
    edited 2005-03-13 01:11
    ·· This afternoon I got home from Radio Shack an my mom told me to read a·message someone had sent me.· It basically said that someone was going to sponsor me with a Boe-Bot!!!!·shocked.gif· I·suppose that·I can save my money now.··To that·person·I would like to say thank you very very much.· When·I dicovered what·I was getting·I was speechless.· I guess that·I dont need any more sugestions about what to get, but when I get the Boe-Bot I'll brobably have lots more questions about what to do!· I can't wait untill I have functional robot zipping around the house!
    ···I thought that I would say a little about my self.· Im a 13 years old and·I live in Indiana.··You've heard me·refer to myself as a nerd,·and·thats what·I like·to consider my self to be.· I've always wanted to work for NASA some day, posibly as an aerospace engineer,·or some sort of mechanical or robotics engineer.· I love science and technology(obviously).· I earned enough money last summer (lots of lawn mowing) to buy a nice model airplane.· I am a member of the Barnstormers aeromodeling club, and love to fly!
    ···· I would like to hear about some of you guy's projects.· What kind of robots and gadgets have you guys built?·tongue.gif
    Thanks again,

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    the NERD, Kelie B.
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2005-03-13 02:17
    We used to have a T-Shirt that read:

    The BASIC Stamp: Like duct-tape for Nerds

    We have some flyers in our office too. I know nothing about flying model airplanes, but I have built GPS loggers for them (using a BS2p) so we could find out how fast they fly (my boss's plane went about 80 mph straight-and-level) and graph the flight path.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
    Dallas, TX· USA
  • The_N3rdThe_N3rd Posts: 34
    edited 2005-03-13 02:25
    ···· wow, thats really cool!· people always ask wow fast my plane flys and i say "I dont know."· I'll have to do somthing like that some day. My mom said to quit giving me ideas. LOL· Thanks!

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    the NERD, Kelie B.
  • KenMKenM Posts: 657
    edited 2005-03-13 04:03
    ··· I would like to hear about some of you guy's projects.· What kind of robots and gadgets have you guys built?·tongue.gif
    Thanks again,

    I don't fly, but I distinctly remember my first exposure to a the Basic Stamp, back in maybe, 1992 or so. It was an article about the Stamp.
    The article described a Stamp application used on an RC airplane. The Stamp continuously monitored whether or not the plane was still in contact with the controller.
    If the plane got out of radio range, the stamp took over putting the plane into a gentle circle, which then brought it back into radio range.
  • The_N3rdThe_N3rd Posts: 34
    edited 2005-03-13 14:04
    ····Hmmm, sounds like something that I might look into.· Hopefully I won't ever have any trouble loosing radio contact though!

    ···· I still don’t know very much about microcontrolers, but would there be any way to hook my receiver up to the basic stamp or BOE and have the receiver control a relay by way of the basic stamp?· I was·thinking that it might be a possible way to control a battle bot.

    ···· Thanks turn.gif

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    the NERD, Kelie B.
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2005-03-13 14:41
    My first BS2 project was to control my Kodak digital camera from the BS2.
    I wanted to use a helium ballon to float the camera and BS2 and a FRS walkie-talkie, then I would use another FRS to send a tone, which the radio on the ballon would receive then signal the BS2 to tell the camera to take a picture.

    I got the whole mess working, then found out that the helium was too expensive.

    Bean.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Check out· the "SX-Video Display Module"

    www.sxvm.com
    ·
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2005-03-13 16:35
    Try reducing the weight(breaking apart the boxes and keeping only the electronics), use only the smallest batteries and hang it under a hot-air balloon instead...

    You may want to use a 'keychain' type cheap camera instead of your Kodak, though...
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2005-03-13 21:49
    Kelie,
    The BS2 should have no trouble reading the pulses from the receiver. You can use the PULSIN command.
    Bean.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Check out· the "SX-Video Display Module"

    www.sxvm.com
    ·
  • The_N3rdThe_N3rd Posts: 34
    edited 2005-03-14 01:06
    ·· I have JR radio systems, not futaba.· Dose·this make any difference?· I forget, but dont the futaba servos pulse for 1 or 2 ms and wait for 15ms at 50hz?· Would this be any different for JR?

    thanks,

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    the NERD, Kelie B.
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-03-14 01:21
    Most servos work the same.· 1-2 mS pulse rate at 20mS refresh interval.· This includes most JR servos (I have several JR NES-537).


    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Chris Savage

    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • The_N3rdThe_N3rd Posts: 34
    edited 2005-03-14 01:26
    Ok, thanks. I didn't want to mess up anny of my servos!

    Kelie

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    the NERD, Kelie B.
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2005-03-14 01:35
    Unless you supply your servos with too much voltage, your not going to harm them by driving them with the incorrect pulses. They just won't operate the way you want to, frustrating but not damaging.
  • The_N3rdThe_N3rd Posts: 34
    edited 2005-03-14 01:52
    OK, makes sense.

    I have seen of all these cool inventions that evryone has made, and it makes me wonder; what cant BASIC stamps do ?

    Thanks,
    Kel!e

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    the NERD, Kelie B.
  • Robert SchwartzRobert Schwartz Posts: 141
    edited 2005-03-14 02:23
    The only thing that dissapoints me about the stamps is the lack of interupts.Sure, the BS2P's have polled interupts, but I would like to see them throughout the stamp lineup.
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-03-14 02:36
    The BASIC language is inherently non-re-entrant, mainly due to the fact that it's a tokenized language.· That is what makes interrupts such a hassle for BASIC on any MCU.· You could always use the SX if you require interrupts.· The SX does support them, AND can be programmed in SX/B!



    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Chris Savage

    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • Paul BakerPaul Baker Posts: 6,351
    edited 2005-03-14 02:55
    The major shortcoming of the basic stamp is its speed, while its fast enough for many applications, there are some things that simply require too much processing power than the stamp can handle. At some point in the future after you have become proficient at programming your stamp you can get the SX Tech board which Parallax also sells, It performs 50 Million instructions per second and is fast enough to drive television signals and other very high speed applications. The nice thing about the SX is that Parallax has released a BASIC compiler for it which is very close to the BASIC used to program stamps, but performs the commands many many times faster, it also allows you to mix BASIC with assembly language. This permits you to start with programming it in the language you have become comfortable with (BASIC) and transition to programing it in assembly which provides you the full power of the chip.

    With regards to the desire of interrupts, Jon Williams explains why true interrupts aren't plausible in the stamp in the January 2005 Nuts and Volts issue, the time sensitive functions SERIN, SEROUT, PULSIN, PULSOUT, PAUSE, OWIN, OWOUT would exhibit unpredictible behaviour if there were true interrupts. BTW using SX/B (The basic compiler for the SX) gives you true interrupts as Chris explained in the previous post. Polled interrupts can be mimiced in ordinary stamp code regardless of the version.

    Post Edited (Paul Baker) : 3/14/2005 3:05:49 AM GMT
  • Robert SchwartzRobert Schwartz Posts: 141
    edited 2005-03-14 03:31
    Chris, I have recently discovered the SX and love it! SX/B is a great way to slowly learn an assembly language (I got some help from knowing some PIC assmebly). You can just make a statement in basic, compile it and see what the equivalent assembly lines would be.

    Hey, I just realized I have over 100 posts. WooHoo hop.gifhop.gifhop.gifyeah.gifyeah.gifburger.gif
  • The_N3rdThe_N3rd Posts: 34
    edited 2005-03-14 03:42
    Ok guys! This is the Nerd Boy's mom, and he is probably going to kill me tomorrow when he realizes I posted to his new online buddies.··I had to drag him away from the computer, and send him to bed (with the equivalent of sugar plums dancing in his head).· It's been a very exciting weekend for the boy, and it may take him a while to come back to earth.· Kelie has received a few offers to help get him started, and my husband and I·wanted to thank all of you for your input and generosity.

    My dad took him to a huge public library a while back, and Kelie walked out with a stack of books with titles like "Junkbots, Bugbots & Bots on Wheels", and "Building Bots" (which is by the author of one of his favorite books, "Backyard Ballistics").· Adding this to his interest in aeromodeling, life around our household is never going to be the same again.· What's worse, is that Kelie's 9 year old brother is absorbing all of this on the sidelines.

    Again, my thanks, and please be gentle on the mom!

    Rebekah Bailey

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    the NERD, Kelie B.
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2005-03-14 03:56
    Reminds me of my younger days when I would "sleep over" at my friends house.
    We wouldn't sleep at all, we would stay up all night writing games on his Tandy CoCo computer.
    His mom knew it, but I guess she figured we weren't out causing trouble, so she acted like she didn't know.
    We would sneak out every couple hours to the coke machine across the street. She HAD to have known.

    Bean.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Check out· the "SX-Video Display Module"

    www.sxvm.com
    ·
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-03-14 03:57
    Robert Schwartz said...
    Chris, I have recently discovered the SX and love it! SX/B is a great way to slowly learn an assembly language (I got some help from knowing some PIC assmebly). You can just make a statement in basic, compile it and see what the equivalent assembly lines would be.
    Yes, it is a great learning tool.· I myself have plans for the SX once I know I have the hardware architecture fully learned.· And I will depend on SX/B to help me code a few routines, such as the SERIN/SEROUT routines.



    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Chris Savage

    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • Aristides AlvarezAristides Alvarez Posts: 486
    edited 2005-03-14 04:30
    Dear Rebekah.

    I don't want to make things worse for you but just wanted to let you know that we're getting close to launch this summer a robot for ages 8+.

    I'm sorry, but now even Kelie's brother will be able to jump into robotics with both feet...

    I'm attaching an image of a CAD drawing of the robot.

    This is a project under development, so if anybody asks you, you don't know anything about it...··scool.gif

    Regards,

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Aristides Alvarez
    Education and Technical Support Manager
    aalvarez@parallax.com
    Parallax, Inc. www.parallax.com
    scrib_obstacle.jpg
    776 x 575 - 36K
Sign In or Register to comment.