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Coprocessor — Parallax Forums

Coprocessor

kelvin jameskelvin james Posts: 531
edited 2005-02-24 17:31 in General Discussion
Anyone have any experience with one of these? Maybe overkill, but i like the specs and the package.
www.micromint.com/products/picstic.htm

Comments

  • MacGeek117MacGeek117 Posts: 747
    edited 2005-02-21 18:48
    What are you using it for?
    bugg

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    Q: "And why shouldn't they, there so inconvinient!"

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  • achilles03achilles03 Posts: 247
    edited 2005-02-22 14:57
    Looks like you have to program it with PicBasic, which is made by another company. 99$ for the limited version, 249$ for the Pro version. You might be able to use something else to program it, but you can't use parallax's software to program it.

    Honestly, it doesn't look like there's much difference between those picsticks and putting together your own PIC/resonator/regulator/programmer package.

    Dave
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2005-02-22 17:12
    Just like any other Basic Stamp wannabe out there...

    The clone is cheaper than a Stamp, but you'll have to pay until you're blue for the development tools...

    And this one doesn't even have DEBUG functionality...
  • BorisBoris Posts: 81
    edited 2005-02-22 18:04
    What do you mean by "coprocessor", what is going to function as the main processor? What are you using it for?
    Gadgetman:"The clone is cheaper than a Stamp, but you'll have to pay until you're blue for the development tools..." Not necessarily- http://www.mikroelektronika.co.yu/english/product/tools/easypic2.htm
    It all depends on the applications. If the idea is to get one microcntroller and mess with it for the rest of your life the Basic stamp is the way to go, but if you are planning on actually making products and imbedding microcontrollers in there, then paying ~$120-$150 for programming board+software is not bad at all considering the cost of PICs is realatively low (ex. $7 for PIC-16F877A). Also PICs are much faster, have more memory, have interrupts. As I said it all depends on the application. PICs are harder to program, even using MikroBasic, PicBasic compilers, I am not even talking programming in ASM, that's still way over my head. Basic Stamp allows you to dive into testing and developing almost right away, learning more and more as you go. PICs require you to have a certain amount of knowledge before you even start messing around with them.
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-02-22 18:23
    Boris said...
    Gadgetman:"The clone is cheaper than a Stamp, but you'll have to pay until you're blue for the development tools..." Not necessarily- http://www.mikroelektronika.co.yu/english/product/tools/easypic2.htm
    I checked this link real quick.· Not trying to shoot holes in all your supporting arguments, but if you read the descriptions of, "What's On Board?"· First column, second row.· "Potentiometer for setting the backlight of the LCD," when if fact it's clearly the contrast control.· Little things like that would worry me (If the company doesn't know their own product...).· Also, it's unclear from the wording, but appears you only get demo versions of the software.


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  • BorisBoris Posts: 81
    edited 2005-02-22 19:19
    Understand your suspicion [noparse]:)[/noparse]
    A little disclaimer: "I do not work for that company, everything i say/type is my own opinion that im not forcing upon anybody, just presenting the facts and trying to find the best solution for the given problem"
    Now that thats out of the way, I actually have that board. You are correct the free fully functional version only allows you to generate 2k of hex code. The full version is available for $99 (if you get the board too). I am sure that if you do some research you will be able to generate 2k pieces of hex code, for each page, and then just use ASM to connect the 2k pages.

    "Potentiometer for setting the backlight of the LCD," when if fact it's clearly the contrast control.
    Must be a typo on that page. In the manual, and on the silk screen on the circuit board it says "contrast", they are from Yugoslavia. I am not sure but I think they are a part of Microchip Company, not just a 3rd party distributor.
    http://www.mikroelektronika.co.yu/english/product/tools/easypic2/pdf/easypic2-manual.pdf

    P.S. As I mentioned earlier, there is a larger initial investment for working with PIC, but PICs have their advantages. It ALL depends on the application.

    Post Edited (Boris) : 2/22/2005 7:22:04 PM GMT
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-02-22 19:26
    Boris,

    ·· Not having a full working knowledge of PICs, I can't say this for certain, but I would think an SX28 would be able to take the place of many PIC chips...And the development tools for the SX are free.· I admit to having a little difficulty understanding the SX currently, but once I do I think it will suffice for any project I may have considered a PIC for.· And again, totally free development tools.· I'm so sure of it, I bought 3 rails (On sale) from Parallax already for future products that I am not even 100% ready to build yet.

    wink.gif

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    --==<{Chris}>==--
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2005-02-22 20:11
    Boris:

    I have no plans of actually building anything for sale, and will probably never have more than a couple projects operating at one time ever.
    And if I should ever reconsider, I have a decent EPROM burner which can also program many microcontrollers.
    (Only used for disassembling the ROM of older computers)

    I also have a PIC programmer I bought cheaply on an online auction, but which has never been used because PIC assembler is... difficult...

    So, the Stamp isn't the fastest, or the one with most memory, or... or... but at least it doesn't come with any 'hidden' costs.
    (Besides, the BS2 is fast enough for most tasks, as is proven again and again here... .-)

    How many BS2s can you buy before it's more expensive than to buy the dev.kit and a similar number of clones?
  • Jim McCorisonJim McCorison Posts: 359
    edited 2005-02-22 20:52
    If you are going to build something for commercial sale in quantities above one'sy two'sy, you're not going to use the BS2 module at $49 a whack. Instead, you'd design the components onto the board for a total cost of about $9-$10 per implementation (in 100 qty) including the resonator, EEPROM, programmed PIC Interpreter chip, and a few misc. items. I know very little about PIC chips, but I'm sure there is more glue required than just the PIC itself. So the implemented costs for a production product seem roughly comparable, at least to these uneducated eyes.

    Jim
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2005-02-22 22:26
    If you are using the basic stamp and want to produce in quantities, check out the SX/B compiler for the SX. It supports many of the BS2 commands and is "blessed" by parallax.
    For $99 (I think), you get a complete development system with debugging (break-points and single stepping). And for about $4 a piece the SX is a good value.

    Bean.

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    Check out· the "SX-Video Display Module"

    www.sxvm.com
    ·
  • Beau SchwabeBeau Schwabe Posts: 6,568
    edited 2005-02-22 23:48
    Yes, I agree with Bean...

    A certain "Stamp wanna be" offers a compiler for $99 that will accept BS1 code, and for a nice price of $249 you can get the Pro version
    that will allow you to use BS2 code. Keep in Mind that this does not include the programmer, this is ONLY the software.

    Parallax is offering the "SX Tech Tool Kit LITE" on sale for $89.
    Complete with...

    SX-Key Rev. F - $79 by itself
    SX Tech Board - 39$ by itself
    Two SX28AC/DP - $9.60 value
    [url=http:// http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=250-05060]50 MHz resonator - $1.66 value[/url]
    4 MHz resonator - $1.65 value
    SX-Key Development System Manual by Parallax, Inc. - $35 by itself
    CD ROM (software, PDF documentation)
    Serial Cable (for BS2 programming) - $10 by itself


    ...Although the SX Tech Tool Kit LITE is currently on back order until 2/28, I have complete confidence that Parallax will act promptly
    and professionally to expedite this minor hiccup. turn.gif


    ...And to mention, you will always be able to download the latest software version for FREE

    Available SX Chips to choose from...
    SX18AC/DP - $1.79
    SX20AC/SS - $4.00
    SX28AC/DP - $4.80
    SX28AC/SS - $3.80
    SX48BD - $5.00
    SX52BD - $7.00

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    Beau Schwabe - Mask Designer III

    National Semiconductor Corporation
    (Communication Interface Division)
    500 Pinnacle Court, Suite 525
    Mail Stop GA1
    Norcross,GA 30071
  • Jim McCorisonJim McCorison Posts: 359
    edited 2005-02-23 02:40
    Yes, but for only $10 more (doesn't that sound like a late night commercial) you can get the Pro setup, which interestingly enough is not back ordered. The Pro kit includes both Gunther's Programming the SX Microcontroller book and Al William's Beginning Assembly Language for the SX Microcontroller. For the first time SX'er this seems like a great deal.

    Jim
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2005-02-23 05:37
    I've asked our Sales Manager to look into that back order situation ... it may have been a gremlin in the system; but I can't be sure until he checks.

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    Jon Williams
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    Dallas, TX· USA
  • kelvin jameskelvin james Posts: 531
    edited 2005-02-24 07:44
    Thanks for the input. I was originally looking at the picstic4 with coprocessor, looked like a good idea, but again, a little costly also. Actually picbasic isn't that much different than the sx compiler, picbasic is stamp compatible also, and uses much the same commands. After doing some reading, I think both have their merits, depending on what the application is. Could this turn into another PC versus MAC related debate? I'm sure there are always preferences one way or the other, and no right or wrong conclusions.
    I will probably go with the SX, i just like to explore all avenues. Just out of interest, on the picsic4, the main processor communicates with the coprocessor serially at 62.5 kbps, doesn't that seem a little slow?
    kelvin
  • Beau SchwabeBeau Schwabe Posts: 6,568
    edited 2005-02-24 16:22
    Jim said...
    Yes, but for only $10 more (doesn't that sound like a late night commercial)...


    What's funny is that I don't even have a SX-Key .... yet!

    My SX-Blitz died due to a faulty voltage regulator (Middle pin broke on a 7805) - Grrrr!!!
    ...Anyway I hinted to my wife that a SX-Key might make a nice B-Day present to me since
    she often has a difficult time deciding what to get.

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    Beau Schwabe - Mask Designer III

    National Semiconductor Corporation
    (Communication Interface Division)
    500 Pinnacle Court, Suite 525
    Mail Stop GA1
    Norcross,GA 30071
  • Beau SchwabeBeau Schwabe Posts: 6,568
    edited 2005-02-24 16:30
    kelvin,

    Something BIG that I forgot to mention....

    A PIC generally requires 4 clock cycles to complete most instructions... Some instructions take 8 clock cycles

    A SX completes most instructions in a single clock cycle... Some instructions require 2 clock cycles.

    In summary, right off the bat if you have the exact same code in a PIC vs. an SX both running at the same
    clock speed, the SX will complete the job 4 times faster in most cases than the PIC.

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    Beau Schwabe - Mask Designer III

    National Semiconductor Corporation
    (Communication Interface Division)
    500 Pinnacle Court, Suite 525
    Mail Stop GA1
    Norcross,GA 30071
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-02-24 17:13
    Beau Schwabe said...(trimmed)
    In summary, right off the bat if you have the exact same code in a PIC vs. an SX both running at the same
    clock speed, the SX will complete the job 4 times faster in most cases than the PIC.
    Doesn't the SX also clock higher?· I've seen 50Mhz, 75Mhz, and even 100Mhz.


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  • Beau SchwabeBeau Schwabe Posts: 6,568
    edited 2005-02-24 17:19
    Chris,

    Absolutely! For the benefit of the doubt I was trying to keep the context on a level playing field Apples to Apples,
    ...but the SX is a small Jet compared to a PIC which is a twin engine prop.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Beau Schwabe - Mask Designer III

    National Semiconductor Corporation
    (Communication Interface Division)
    500 Pinnacle Court, Suite 525
    Mail Stop GA1
    Norcross,GA 30071
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2005-02-24 17:31
    Love the analogy!· I'm still using it at 4Mhz while I learn more about the chip.· My goal is to know it as well as I used to know the Z80.



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