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De-construction -> Reconstruction — Parallax Forums

De-construction -> Reconstruction

Jonathan AllisonJonathan Allison Posts: 96
edited 2004-12-31 04:48 in BASIC Stamp
Hi all;

As you may have seen in some of my other posts I own a tab sumobot robot. Its got a BS2 in it. Now, I can't get it to work. I've tried several PCs, I'm using a serial extension cable. The robot itself works fine, I just can't get it to interface with the PC, which renders it pretty useless as I have a totaly different purpose for it. The tab robot has a bunch of stuff that I'll probably never use, like the right left motors, IR sensor, and some other sensors.

Would it be wise to try to dismantle this robot, take out the necessary chips (the stamp etc) and put that in a new carrier board from parallax?

I'm getting frustrated not being able to start programming this, if I had lots of money, I would simply go and buy a starter kit or something, but I do not, so I would like to salvage this, if I can.

My background is programming and not circuitry, I do have some experience in electronics, just general computer stuff and marine wiring so I feel I am capable if I take my time.

What are your opinions, is it worth it? Or should I just start saving... or, should I keep trying with the current setup to see if I can get it to work?

Thanks for the advice, in advance.

Johnny

Comments

  • allanlane5allanlane5 Posts: 3,815
    edited 2004-12-30 13:42
    Been there, done that. What IDE do you have loaded? Did you go to the Parallax web-site and download the latest and greatest?

    Does your PC have 'native' serial ports, or USB?

    If 'native', is it a Toshiba, and have you turned off FIFO buffering?

    The Sumobot board tends to be very robust. You're almost there, I think.

    By the way, you DID power-on your Sumobot before trying to program it, right?
  • Jonathan AllisonJonathan Allison Posts: 96
    edited 2004-12-30 13:58
    Hi Allan

    I did download the latest IDE, its ver 2.x whatever the latest would be.

    I'm not too sure about the serial ports, the PC is a couple of years old and it is USB capable, but also has a serial port... I have tried turning FIFO buffering off and on, reconnecting, powering down, powering up the bot, unplugging re-connecting the serial cable, tried all of that is several different orders, still nothing.

    You don't think its worth tearing it apart and putting the stamp in another board?

    Maybe there is a defect from the manufacturer in the cable who knows.



    Jonathan
  • allanlane5allanlane5 Posts: 3,815
    edited 2004-12-30 14:07
    You do have the SumoBot right? Tearing the BS2 off the board would require de-soldering a few·surface mount chips, then re-assembling them correctly.· MUCH less likely to fix anything than it is to break it further.

    If you have a 24-pin wide socket on the board, then it is NOT a 'sumobot', it is a BYORK, which does not come with a BS2.

    This could be your problem. <grin>
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2004-12-30 14:57
    Are you sure the serial port on the PC is working ?
    Does it work with anything else ?

    I have seen PC's that have a serial port, but it is disabled.

    Bean.
  • Jonathan AllisonJonathan Allison Posts: 96
    edited 2004-12-30 14:59
    Hey Allan,

    Its a tab robot, see this http://www.tabrobotkit.com/

    I'm pretty sure its a BS2, or so it claims!

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    Johnny
  • Jonathan AllisonJonathan Allison Posts: 96
    edited 2004-12-30 15:02
    Bean:

    Windows is reporting it as "This device is enabled" I wonder if its disabled in the CMOS or something. I've never tested the serial port with anything else, but like I said, I tested the bot on another PC.

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    Johnny
  • cyberbiotacyberbiota Posts: 79
    edited 2004-12-30 15:28
    Johnny-

    Did you purchase and install a BS-2?· It looks from the company literature that the robot comes only with the PIC onboard to controll the primatives like motor function and sensor operation.· You need to buy, and install a BS-2 in a socket that they have included on the board.· If you have no BS-2 present, that would explain the lack of communications with the robot.

    peter



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    Peter C. Charles

    Director, Research and Technology
    CyberBiota, Incorporated
    Peter.charles@cyberbiota.com
    http://www.cyberbiota.com
  • Jonathan AllisonJonathan Allison Posts: 96
    edited 2004-12-30 15:40
    According to that picture on the webiste, the one of the sumobot, is there a basic stamp there? My robot is identical to that one when you first enter the site.

    ·If you look at the pic below, its a pretty good resolution imagine of my robot in its current state.

    http://forums.parallax.com/forums/attach.aspx?a=1151

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    Johnny

    Post Edited (Jonathan Allison) : 12/30/2004 3:43:28 PM GMT
  • bobhillierbobhillier Posts: 27
    edited 2004-12-30 15:58
    Buried in the FAQ list is this:

    The Basic Stamp (which is the "Basic Stamp BS2 Microcontroller") is an option that can be purchased separately (using the $15.00 off coupon included with the TAB Electronics Build Your Own Robot Kit) from Parallax.·

    It would seem you need to purchase a BS2.


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    ······ Bob, Ottawa
    W75 54 17·· N45 18 30
    ·········· G16 #27
  • Jonathan AllisonJonathan Allison Posts: 96
    edited 2004-12-30 16:18
    Well! This explains lot lol

    Feeling pretty dumb right about now. Ha

    I thought the chips integrated into the board was the stamp... I know there are different versions of this robot.

    If someone has a good eye for a BS2 stamp, could you take a look at the picture above and tell me if there is one there?

    This is a bit of a shock. Looks like I will be buying a stamp after all.



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    Johnny
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2004-12-30 16:21
    There is in fact a BASIC Stamp on that board -- it's the big chip in the middle (OEM). Perhaps you deconstruction project has busted something.

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    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
    Dallas Office
  • Jonathan AllisonJonathan Allison Posts: 96
    edited 2004-12-30 16:26
    well the disassembly hasn't actually started yet, I'm just wondering why I can't get this to interface with the pc!

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    Johnny
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2004-12-30 16:28
    You may have a defective board. Check for broken traces and bad solder joints.

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    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
    Dallas Office
  • allanlane5allanlane5 Posts: 3,815
    edited 2004-12-30 16:46
    Mr. Allison:
    1. You DO have the TAB SumoBot. It DOES have a BS2 OEM version on-board.

    2. You are NOT passing the 'loopback' test. This is the simplest brain-dead test that exists. What this does is check through your PC's serial port if the serial cable is actually connected to the SumoBot. The 'Bot does not have to be on for the loopback to pass -- there's a simple piece of wire on the board that connects pin 6 and 7.

    You could replace the Sumobot with a paper clip to connect pins 6 and 7 in the end of the 232-cable, and the IDE should pass the 'loopback' test. Please do this, and tell us exactly what happens.

    The essence of fault isolation is nailing down what is working versus what is broken. Currently you have not yet proved that your serial port and cable are working. You must do that before you can prove your BS2 is broken.
  • Jonathan AllisonJonathan Allison Posts: 96
    edited 2004-12-30 17:57
    Well said and true enough...

    I guess I am jumping to conclusions and thinking that since the cable is new and I have tried two PCs that it isn't the problem. When I get home tonight, I will test the cable, connecting the pins with a paper clip or whatever and seeing if I get loopback. If not, I'll change some settings on the com port and see what happens. If I can't get anywhere with that, I'll post back for some advice.

    Thanks

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    Johnny
  • Bruce BatesBruce Bates Posts: 3,045
    edited 2004-12-30 18:43
    Johnny -

    Just to be sure we're all on the right page as to which Tab robot kit you have, please find below links to both of the robot kits that Tab Electronics offers. You should be able to determine just from the box it came in, which of the two kits you actually have.

    Tab Sumo Bot Kit:
    http://www.acroname.com/robotics/parts/R186-SUMO-KIT.html

    The Basic Stamp BS-2 microprocessor IS supplied with this kit.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Tab Build Your Own Robot Kit (BYORK):
    http://www.acroname.com/robotics/parts/R149-BYO-ROBOT-KIT.html

    The Basic Stamp BS-2 microprocessor is NOT supplied with this kit, and must be supplied by the purchaser.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    I hope that ends the possible confusion which may be present as to which kit you actaully have.

    Regards,

    Bruce Bates
  • Jonathan AllisonJonathan Allison Posts: 96
    edited 2004-12-30 20:07
    Ok cool, I do have the one with the BS2 [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    I'll check my cabling when I get back home and let yas know what goes on.

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    Johnny
  • Jonathan AllisonJonathan Allison Posts: 96
    edited 2004-12-30 21:56
    Ok i tested my cable with an ohm meter. The pins DO NOT correspond, for example, if I put the meter on pin 1 male and the same location on the female end... I get nothing. Should I hack up the cable and make it straight through?



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    Johnny
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2004-12-30 22:50
    I would just buy a straight though cable, they are sometimes called extension cables.

    I guess you could re-wire it, I doubt if all 9 pins need connected, but I don't know which ones do and which ones don't.

    Bean.
  • ForrestForrest Posts: 1,341
    edited 2004-12-30 23:10
    Radio Shack sells a DB9 extension cable that may work for $7.99
  • MinikrautMinikraut Posts: 2
    edited 2004-12-31 01:16
    When you metered your cable you said you checked between pin 1 male end and the same LOCATION on the other end and got nothing. If you are looking straight at both ends with the five pins on top, pin 1 on the male end is at the top left while pin 1 female is at the top right (a mirror image, sortof). Most DB9 connectors have the pin numbers embossed alongside the pin.
  • Jonathan AllisonJonathan Allison Posts: 96
    edited 2004-12-31 02:16
    When I cut the cable open, it only had five wires inside anyway? and some of the pins required for bs2 where not active. So its off to radio shack to get a good db9 straight through cable. At least there is still hope for the bs2 [noparse]:)[/noparse]



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    Johnny
  • steve_bsteve_b Posts: 1,563
    edited 2004-12-31 04:48
    Sounds like you might've had a null modem cable....confused.gif



    Anyhow, you should be set up nice with the right cable.

    And if you ever get the chance, while ordering, pick up some of the appropriate DB9 connectors for making your own cables.· I prefer the solder ones.· And the backshells are nice too...but I like leaving the ends open so I can get at the contacts for testing.

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    ·

    Steve
    http://members.rogers.com/steve.brady
    http://www.geocities.com/paulsopenstage

    "Inside each and every one of us is our one, true authentic swing. Something we was born with. Something that's ours and ours alone. Something that can't be learned... something that's got to be remembered."
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