SX-Key without Serial?

Eddie

I recently bought a xgamestation to suppliment my Computer Architecture class, as well as learn Assembly. I am happy with the product, but I do not like the IDE that the built-in programmer uses. Lack of a debugger is my main problem with it.

It has support for the SX-Key. I would like to use this; but I have no serial port on my laptop.

Is there any way to get the SX-Key to work through a USB to Serial adapter?

I am sorry if this has been asked before; I did search first. Thanks.

Eddie

It looks like I missed this: http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=800-00030

This will do what I am asking?

Is there anything cheaper then this around? I also want the SX-Key kit because of the proto board and other things it comes with. I just spent $200 on the XGS, I would rather not spend another $30 if I spend $130 for the SX-Key.

edit: I didn't notice originally that the books that it comes with also came with the XGS. One came in its printed form, and the other came as an eBook. I can just get the lite kit and adapter for around the same price.

If someone can confirm that this will work, and that it will do so without too much hassle, that would be great.

Post Edited (Eddie) : 11/30/2004 5:15:39 PM GMT

Bean

I have a Toshiba Satellite notebook and I bought a converter at the local store and it didn't work. I took it back and got the FTDI converter and it worked fine.

Bean.

Guenther Daubach

It's really bad that modern notebooks don't have COM ports any more. Mine does not have one too, and no floppy drive either.

I also bought one of the cheap converters at a local store, and it only worked about a week (sometimes only after disconnecting and reconnecting the USB side) and finally, it died. Then I bought another one via eBay which - knock on wood - works fine since several months now.

Nevertheless, I think the FTDI converter is the better choice compared to some "mass-junk" around.

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Greetings from Germany,


G

Eddie

Thanks for the replies.

So basically any USB to Serial converter will work hardware-wise? I will probably go for the FTDI unless I find something so cheap that if it broke it wouldn't be a big deal, then buy the FTDI.

The books I have that show some parts of the setup for the SX-Key IDE only show you as being able to select COM1-4. Is there a way in the software to make it use the USB, or do the drivers with the adapter handle that?

On a side note, its really nice to see Guenther reply. I'm assuming you wrote "Programming the SX Microcontroller". Even as someone who has never worked with Assembly before, I am having a good time going through this book.

allanlane5

NO! *Just any* USB to serial converter *will not work*! The SX-Key requires close timing on the RS-232 handshake signals to do its thing. Only a *few* USB converters properly support this. The *FTDI* one is called out again and again because it is *definitely* one of the few that *do work*.

There are some really cheap USB to serial converters for PDA use that *only* implement the TX and RX signals, and *will not work*. I've had good luck with the KeySpan 19W units. The 'BAFO' unit that was once sold by Parallax also worked well.

Bottom line, go for the FTDI unit, as it has the best XP support in the industry. You can spend a lot of dollars trying cheaper converters that won't work.

Eddie

Thanks. I will include an FTDI with the kit.

Forrest

FYI I noticed on the XGameStation web site they're selling the SX Key Programmer for only $19.95 if you buy the XGameStation. This looks like a great deal - as Parallax is selling the SX Key seperately for $89.00

Eddie

Thanks, I almost forgot that deal!

Do you know of any stores off hand that would sell the SX microprocessors? Mabye RadioShack? I will check their site and go to a store.

The XGS uses the Ubicom SX52: http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=SX52BD I don't think it will fit into the proto board that they sell here. Programming wise, is the SX28AC more or less the same? I assume that they are, since the "Programming the SX Microcontroller" book they shipped with the XGS has a picture of an SX18AC on it.

Sorry for so many questions.

allanlane5

The only reliable vendor of individual SX28 chips I know of is Parallax. They use so many of them, that Ubicom gave them a great deal. Buy the 50 Mhz resonator at the same time, as these are also very hard to find.

The SX52 is better than the SX28 -- more pins, twice the SRAM, more Flash program memory. However, it doesn't come in a DIP form factor. Otherwise, I think the assembly language is the same. The SX18 is an 18-pin narrow SX chip.

And if you need a prototyping board, AlWilliams sells a board that can be customized to use the SX28.

Eddie

Is this the AlWilliams board that you are talking about? - http://www.al-williams.com/gpsx.htm - Do you know how big it is; I noticed that the one on this site seems a bit small.

Does it come built with a way to get the SX-Key connected right away? How hard would it be to make a general proto board work with the SX-Key?

Thanks.

Post Edited (Eddie) : 11/30/2004 11:49:04 PM GMT

Guenther Daubach

allanlane5 said...
NO! *Just any* USB to serial converter *will not work*! The SX-Key requires close timing on the RS-232 handshake signals to do its thing. Only a *few* USB converters properly support this. The *FTDI* one is called out again and again because it is *definitely* one of the few that *do work*.

There are some really cheap USB to serial converters for PDA use that *only* implement the TX and RX signals, and *will not work*. I've had good luck with the KeySpan 19W units. The 'BAFO' unit that was once sold by Parallax also worked well.

Bottom line, go for the FTDI unit, as it has the best XP support in the industry. You can spend a lot of dollars trying cheaper converters that won't work.

Hey, wait a second - did you ever take a close look to the SX-Key device? No handshake lines at all going to the RS-232 side, so these can't be the reason for trouble. Nevertheless, I still promote the FTDI-based converters.

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Greetings from Germany,


G

Guenther Daubach

Eddie said...
Thanks for the replies.

So basically any USB to Serial converter will work hardware-wise? I will probably go for the FTDI unless I find something so cheap that if it broke it wouldn't be a big deal, then buy the FTDI.

The books I have that show some parts of the setup for the SX-Key IDE only show you as being able to select COM1-4. Is there a way in the software to make it use the USB, or do the drivers with the adapter handle that?

On a side note, its really nice to see Guenther reply. I'm assuming you wrote "Programming the SX Microcontroller". Even as someone who has never worked with Assembly before, I am having a good time going through this book.

Eddie,

the USB/COM adapter's driver·I'm using here, allows me to·assign it to any COM port from 1 to nirvana,·so I have set it to COM1, and the SX-Key IDE has no problems·communicating with it. Too bad that such information usually is not contained on the outside of the packages.

Yep, I wrote "Programming the SX Microcontroller", together·with a lot of support from some·nice people at Parallax to launch the second edition. I hope that the book helps·you to become a bit more familiar with Assmbly, as this is the "native language" of the SX.

Bean, please don't beat me - SX/B is a great alternative, and I think some additional chapters dealing with SX/B are in order for the next edition.

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Greetings from Germany,


Günther

Bean

If you want to experiment with with SX52 get the "SX52 Con Carne"

http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=45207

Bean.

allanlane5

Oops, most of my work has been with BS2's, which use the DTR signal to reset the chip. I *know* there are a limited number of USB to serial adapters that work with this, because this was one of the questions that got asked every three months on the earlier forum.

I just *assumed* the SX-Key would have similar issues -- my bad, I over-reacted. Doesn't make me wrong, of course. I'm with Guenther here -- go with what has worked for others (the FTDI solution).

And Al Williams sells a package using the GSPX with just the parts needed for an SX28 solution -- including the SX28. Yes, it has a connection for the SX-Key. I'd recommend buying that package the first time, just to insure you get all the parts needed. After that, you can buy your own parts-set, the bare-board, and get a cheaper solution.

Eddie

allanlane, or anyone else who may know; whats the difference between the assembled and regular full version of the AlWilliams board for the SX?

http://www.al-williams.com/gpsx.htm

Obviously its not assembled vs assembled. Does anyone know what assembling it will entail?

edit: I looked up GPMPU40 and it seems that it doesn't have a breadboard. Am I overlooking something? Does this at least provide the proper power and grounding that I can use on a breadboard?

Thanks again.

Post Edited (Eddie) : 12/2/2004 3:54:09 AM GMT

allanlane5

The GPMPU40 is a board designed to be customized for many different processor footprints. It comes with a linear regulator (7805)and a MAX232 circuit with DB-9 connector. The board is designed to be configured using jumper-wires for key signals.

The board does come with space on its edge for pin-connectors, which can plug in to another board or an off-the-shelf breadboard.

The 'GPSX' kit has a bare GPMU40 board, plus a complete set of parts to make it into the 'SX28' flavor of the board. These include the voltage regulator and capacitors, the MAX232 with capacitors, the DB-9, pin-connectors for signal and the SX-Key.

I believe Al sells the 'complete kit' set of parts, and the 'complete kit' without the SX28 and resonator (for people who already have those two key parts).

Eddie

Thanks once again.

So right now I am looking at the following:

SX-Key
GPSX kit from AlWilliams
FTDI for USB to Serial
Few LEDs / 7-segment dispays / alarms / other little things to play around with


That should give me what I need for a little while?

Again, thank you.

allanlane5

Well, yes, but if you're going to all that trouble, you might as well buy the full SX kit from Parallax and be done with it. For $99 you get a board WITH a prototyping area, as well as the SX-Key etc. For $139 you get full documentation and some prototyping parts. (The FTDI adapter is extra, though)

I use the GPSX package when I want to embed my SX project in a nice box and deliver it to someone. If I'm just trying stuff out on the bench, I'll use the Parallax Lab board.

Although it occurs to me -- your approach could cost around $50 to $70, so you're still saving a little.

Ken Gracey

Eddie,

About 70% of our SX-Key purchases are for the $129 kit. For an extra 30 bucks you get two printed books that are not available for free download. Guenther's book has been a lifesaver for anybody trying to drill into how interrupts can be used, while Al's book provides you with lots of friendly getting-started types of examples.

And the SX/B on-line help file is very complete and well-designed, too.

Ken

Eddie

Ken, I actually have those books already.

I can get·the SX-Key for $19.99
$35 for the AlWilliams proto board which comes with the SX, and a few other necessary things

Regardless of weather I got the kit or bought things seperately, I would need·the adapter and some other spare parts to play around with.

Eddie

What would it take to get the SX-Key to connect to non-SX specific prototype board in order to program the SX?

I found some very nice boards recently that I would like to use if it isn't too hard to do this.

Thanks.

Ken Gracey

Eddie,

A 4-pin header, power supply and perhaps an external resonator. The SX Key manual includes a diagram.

Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.

Jon Williams

You can see how simple the connections are in the attached schematic.

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Jon Williams
Applications Engineer, Parallax
Dallas Office