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hubris?

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2004-07-05 03:15 in General Discussion
Hi everyone!
I'm just an observer, but I'm afraid that, intended or not, Jon Williams'
tone in his responses to questions about the feature set of the Stamp
interpreter, and potential enhancements, gives the impression of hubris and
the "not invented here" syndrome, and is a disservice to Parallax customers.
We all know and appreciate that Jon has done a lot of very helpful work in
the past, and his contributions have gone far in making the Parallax
products more generally useful to a broader and broader audience.

But, as can happen, often unknowingly, becoming closely associated with a
product can sometimes cloud one's overall perspective of the market and the
customer base. Here are a few (admittedly out-of-context) quotes from Jon's
responses in this thread:

>Garage shops and copy-cats don't have to hold themselves to the same
>standards that we do.

>If it was possible at all we would be doing it now.

Think IBM and the PC business. Probably some guy somewhere in a 'garage
shop', maybe even a current Parallax customer, has some really good ideas
right now.

>Again, YOU'RE WRONG. Please take my word for it.

>Okay, let me make it more clear: it is not possible with the current
>BASIC Stamp architecture.

>There is not going to be a PBASIC 2.6 ... we're frying much bigger fish.

>But unlike our
>competitors, when we do something new we tend to do something really new...

>I wish I could tell you what's coming, but I
>can't. Trust me, it's unbelievably cool,...

Of course, the customer is not __always__ right. But the customer should
never be disparaged for not sharing the same point of view as corporate
management. In my opinion, the tone of Jon's responses, however
well-intentioned, do not cast Parallax in a favorable light. I personally
think Parallax is a great company, and I'm glad they're here. But I also
think Jon needs to be a little more careful when acting as a Parallax
corporate presence on this list.

And finally, please, this is just my own personal reaction to this thread
as a neutral observer and a Parallax customer. My intention is not to
criticize Jon personally, but just to point out that sometimes one can get
too close to an issue, and that a little broader perspective on the
customer base would benefit everyone. Stamp on!!!

Steve

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-07-05 02:02
    This is getting out of hand!

    Hang around here often enough and you can see similar questions being asked
    sometimes daily.
    Frustrating?!?! I'd say so! (I'm irish...the fact they even put caps on
    beer bottles boggles my mind!).

    Anyhow, don't be picking on John....he's doing US a GREAT service through
    his own works and experience. He's our contact to the brains behind the
    beast. The brains couldn't do the job....this is what he's reporting.

    Sure there are tech messiah's hanging out in basements with perf board
    ideas...although I doubt many have SMD fab setups at home...which means many
    future ideas will only come from the corporate community and it's $$.

    Anyhow....I keep typing a erasing....this is a support forum...not some
    political slander site!
    sb


    Original Message
    From: "Steve Roberts" <sroberts@s...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 4:06 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] hubris?


    > Hi everyone!
    > I'm just an observer, but I'm afraid that, intended or not, Jon
    Williams'
    > tone in his responses to questions about the feature set of the Stamp
    > interpreter, and potential enhancements, gives the impression of hubris
    and
    > the "not invented here" syndrome, and is a disservice to Parallax
    customers.
    > We all know and appreciate that Jon has done a lot of very helpful work in
    > the past, and his contributions have gone far in making the Parallax
    > products more generally useful to a broader and broader audience.
    >
    > But, as can happen, often unknowingly, becoming closely associated with a
    > product can sometimes cloud one's overall perspective of the market and
    the
    > customer base. Here are a few (admittedly out-of-context) quotes from
    Jon's
    > responses in this thread:
    >
    > >Garage shops and copy-cats don't have to hold themselves to the same
    > >standards that we do.
    >
    > >If it was possible at all we would be doing it now.
    >
    > Think IBM and the PC business. Probably some guy somewhere in a 'garage
    > shop', maybe even a current Parallax customer, has some really good ideas
    > right now.
    >
    > >Again, YOU'RE WRONG. Please take my word for it.
    >
    > >Okay, let me make it more clear: it is not possible with the current
    > >BASIC Stamp architecture.
    >
    > >There is not going to be a PBASIC 2.6 ... we're frying much bigger fish.
    >
    > >But unlike our
    > >competitors, when we do something new we tend to do something really
    new...
    >
    > >I wish I could tell you what's coming, but I
    > >can't. Trust me, it's unbelievably cool,...
    >
    > Of course, the customer is not __always__ right. But the customer should
    > never be disparaged for not sharing the same point of view as corporate
    > management. In my opinion, the tone of Jon's responses, however
    > well-intentioned, do not cast Parallax in a favorable light. I personally
    > think Parallax is a great company, and I'm glad they're here. But I also
    > think Jon needs to be a little more careful when acting as a Parallax
    > corporate presence on this list.
    >
    > And finally, please, this is just my own personal reaction to this thread
    > as a neutral observer and a Parallax customer. My intention is not to
    > criticize Jon personally, but just to point out that sometimes one can get
    > too close to an issue, and that a little broader perspective on the
    > customer base would benefit everyone. Stamp on!!!
    >
    > Steve
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-07-05 02:49
    I have to chime in and stand up for Jon,find me another company
    where they give the support he does.When was the last time you spent
    big bucks on software to find out you had to pay to ask a
    question,when you had a problem.

    Lets face it this group of people here are not the ordinary cookie
    cutter type of person, we have drive to do things that the majority
    of the population could not dream of.Go buy a alarm system and
    settle for something that will not do what you want.Hell no we will
    build our own and not quit until we finish it the way we intended.I
    cannot believe that there is such a battle here over a run
    command.That seems to me to be a petty problem,when layed up next to
    all of the other problems there are in doing what ever we are doing.

    All of are projects have road blocks and Jon is here to help,suggest
    what ever you want to him but keep it civil and do not dog pile on
    him,he has earned are respect.


    Thanks to all of the people here that have helped me through all of
    my projects,and Happy Birthday to AMERICA Land of The FREE!!!











    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "SB" <steve.brady@r...> wrote:
    > This is getting out of hand!
    >
    > Hang around here often enough and you can see similar questions
    being asked
    > sometimes daily.
    > Frustrating?!?! I'd say so! (I'm irish...the fact they even put
    caps on
    > beer bottles boggles my mind!).
    >
    > Anyhow, don't be picking on John....he's doing US a GREAT service
    through
    > his own works and experience. He's our contact to the brains
    behind the
    > beast. The brains couldn't do the job....this is what he's
    reporting.
    >
    > Sure there are tech messiah's hanging out in basements with perf
    board
    > ideas...although I doubt many have SMD fab setups at home...which
    means many
    > future ideas will only come from the corporate community and it's
    $$.
    >
    > Anyhow....I keep typing a erasing....this is a support forum...not
    some
    > political slander site!
    > sb
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: "Steve Roberts" <sroberts@s...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 4:06 PM
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] hubris?
    >
    >
    > > Hi everyone!
    > > I'm just an observer, but I'm afraid that, intended or not, Jon
    > Williams'
    > > tone in his responses to questions about the feature set of the
    Stamp
    > > interpreter, and potential enhancements, gives the impression of
    hubris
    > and
    > > the "not invented here" syndrome, and is a disservice to Parallax
    > customers.
    > > We all know and appreciate that Jon has done a lot of very
    helpful work in
    > > the past, and his contributions have gone far in making the
    Parallax
    > > products more generally useful to a broader and broader audience.
    > >
    > > But, as can happen, often unknowingly, becoming closely
    associated with a
    > > product can sometimes cloud one's overall perspective of the
    market and
    > the
    > > customer base. Here are a few (admittedly out-of-context) quotes
    from
    > Jon's
    > > responses in this thread:
    > >
    > > >Garage shops and copy-cats don't have to hold themselves to the
    same
    > > >standards that we do.
    > >
    > > >If it was possible at all we would be doing it now.
    > >
    > > Think IBM and the PC business. Probably some guy somewhere in
    a 'garage
    > > shop', maybe even a current Parallax customer, has some really
    good ideas
    > > right now.
    > >
    > > >Again, YOU'RE WRONG. Please take my word for it.
    > >
    > > >Okay, let me make it more clear: it is not possible with the
    current
    > > >BASIC Stamp architecture.
    > >
    > > >There is not going to be a PBASIC 2.6 ... we're frying much
    bigger fish.
    > >
    > > >But unlike our
    > > >competitors, when we do something new we tend to do something
    really
    > new...
    > >
    > > >I wish I could tell you what's coming, but I
    > > >can't. Trust me, it's unbelievably cool,...
    > >
    > > Of course, the customer is not __always__ right. But the
    customer should
    > > never be disparaged for not sharing the same point of view as
    corporate
    > > management. In my opinion, the tone of Jon's responses, however
    > > well-intentioned, do not cast Parallax in a favorable light. I
    personally
    > > think Parallax is a great company, and I'm glad they're here.
    But I also
    > > think Jon needs to be a little more careful when acting as a
    Parallax
    > > corporate presence on this list.
    > >
    > > And finally, please, this is just my own personal reaction to
    this thread
    > > as a neutral observer and a Parallax customer. My intention is
    not to
    > > criticize Jon personally, but just to point out that sometimes
    one can get
    > > too close to an issue, and that a little broader perspective on
    the
    > > customer base would benefit everyone. Stamp on!!!
    > >
    > > Steve
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    Subject and
    > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-07-05 02:50
    Well, Jon is human (Irish too!) and can, perhaps, be a bit
    over-protective of a company he loves very much. I certainly wasn't
    irritated by any customers, just the notion that we didn't want to do
    something that our customers think would be a great idea (I agree, we're
    just solving the problem differently that the suggestions that have been
    tossed around).

    Forgive me if I sounded overbearing or arrogant (I had to look up
    'hubris') -- not my intention at all. I guess I should be more careful
    when I feel Parallax is being unfairly criticized, and especially when
    I'm working on a weekend and not feeling well (as was the case
    yesterday).

    I work from home specifically to maintain a customer perspective, and I
    really do my best to maintain that perspective. What you may not know,
    but many have probably guessed, is that I participate on this list every
    day I'm available so 1) you don't have to wait for the office to be open
    to get support and, 2) because I use your feedback to help guide our
    engineering staff (you guys give me great ammunition for my arguments
    for new features and new products).

    I was a customer for seven years before going to work for Parallax; I
    know what it's like to be where you are.

    Again, I ask your forgiveness if my defense of Parallax was
    heavy-handed. I genuinely care for our customers and love being able to
    help you when I can.

    Jon Williams
    Parallax
    Dallas Office (my home!)


    Original Message
    From: SB [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=m_wLARlL_Xgog9w0rxG-BLwDe90btiKW1nEtEz3otxJ-J-KR7kebo_7odOLIpUlvST7nsxsxddnL6Bl-kfc]steve.brady@r...[/url
    Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 8:02 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] hubris?


    This is getting out of hand!

    Hang around here often enough and you can see similar questions being
    asked sometimes daily. Frustrating?!?! I'd say so! (I'm irish...the
    fact they even put caps on beer bottles boggles my mind!).

    Anyhow, don't be picking on John....he's doing US a GREAT service
    through his own works and experience. He's our contact to the brains
    behind the beast. The brains couldn't do the job....this is what he's
    reporting.

    Sure there are tech messiah's hanging out in basements with perf board
    ideas...although I doubt many have SMD fab setups at home...which means
    many future ideas will only come from the corporate community and it's
    $$.

    Anyhow....I keep typing a erasing....this is a support forum...not some
    political slander site! sb


    Original Message
    From: "Steve Roberts" <sroberts@s...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 4:06 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] hubris?


    > Hi everyone!
    > I'm just an observer, but I'm afraid that, intended or not, Jon
    Williams'
    > tone in his responses to questions about the feature set of the Stamp
    > interpreter, and potential enhancements, gives the impression of
    > hubris
    and
    > the "not invented here" syndrome, and is a disservice to Parallax
    customers.
    > We all know and appreciate that Jon has done a lot of very helpful
    > work in the past, and his contributions have gone far in making the
    > Parallax products more generally useful to a broader and broader
    > audience.
    >
    > But, as can happen, often unknowingly, becoming closely associated
    > with a product can sometimes cloud one's overall perspective of the
    > market and
    the
    > customer base. Here are a few (admittedly out-of-context) quotes from
    Jon's
    > responses in this thread:
    >
    > >Garage shops and copy-cats don't have to hold themselves to the same
    > >standards that we do.
    >
    > >If it was possible at all we would be doing it now.
    >
    > Think IBM and the PC business. Probably some guy somewhere in a
    > 'garage shop', maybe even a current Parallax customer, has some really

    > good ideas right now.
    >
    > >Again, YOU'RE WRONG. Please take my word for it.
    >
    > >Okay, let me make it more clear: it is not possible with the current
    > >BASIC Stamp architecture.
    >
    > >There is not going to be a PBASIC 2.6 ... we're frying much bigger
    > >fish.
    >
    > >But unlike our
    > >competitors, when we do something new we tend to do something really
    new...
    >
    > >I wish I could tell you what's coming, but I
    > >can't. Trust me, it's unbelievably cool,...
    >
    > Of course, the customer is not __always__ right. But the customer
    > should never be disparaged for not sharing the same point of view as
    > corporate management. In my opinion, the tone of Jon's responses,
    > however well-intentioned, do not cast Parallax in a favorable light. I

    > personally think Parallax is a great company, and I'm glad they're
    > here. But I also think Jon needs to be a little more careful when
    > acting as a Parallax corporate presence on this list.
    >
    > And finally, please, this is just my own personal reaction to this
    > thread as a neutral observer and a Parallax customer. My intention is
    > not to criticize Jon personally, but just to point out that sometimes
    > one can get too close to an issue, and that a little broader
    > perspective on the customer base would benefit everyone. Stamp on!!!
    >
    > Steve
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    > and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >



    To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    and Body of the message will be ignored.

    Yahoo! Groups Links







    This message has been scanned by WebShield. Please report SPAM to
    abuse@p....
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-07-05 03:15
    An Irish-man apologizing??? Oh, you're sober aren't ya!! Just kidding!

    Uhm...what DOES hubris mean?!?!
    Sounded sorta like Haggis....
    Original Message
    From: "Jon Williams" <jwilliams@p...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 9:50 PM
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] hubris?


    > Well, Jon is human (Irish too!) and can, perhaps, be a bit
    > over-protective of a company he loves very much. I certainly wasn't
    > irritated by any customers, just the notion that we didn't want to do
    > something that our customers think would be a great idea (I agree, we're
    > just solving the problem differently that the suggestions that have been
    > tossed around).
    >
    > Forgive me if I sounded overbearing or arrogant (I had to look up
    > 'hubris') -- not my intention at all. I guess I should be more careful
    > when I feel Parallax is being unfairly criticized, and especially when
    > I'm working on a weekend and not feeling well (as was the case
    > yesterday).
    >
    > I work from home specifically to maintain a customer perspective, and I
    > really do my best to maintain that perspective. What you may not know,
    > but many have probably guessed, is that I participate on this list every
    > day I'm available so 1) you don't have to wait for the office to be open
    > to get support and, 2) because I use your feedback to help guide our
    > engineering staff (you guys give me great ammunition for my arguments
    > for new features and new products).
    >
    > I was a customer for seven years before going to work for Parallax; I
    > know what it's like to be where you are.
    >
    > Again, I ask your forgiveness if my defense of Parallax was
    > heavy-handed. I genuinely care for our customers and love being able to
    > help you when I can.
    >
    > Jon Williams
    > Parallax
    > Dallas Office (my home!)
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: SB [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=L6BdtQkEgMWL77klbiVxBIFar3Tq25clLvesS4r0P3XYDVr3Fsf1L6Tr3RG95U1NdC8dqv8qmV1VnuVggw]steve.brady@r...[/url
    > Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 8:02 PM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] hubris?
    >
    >
    > This is getting out of hand!
    >
    > Hang around here often enough and you can see similar questions being
    > asked sometimes daily. Frustrating?!?! I'd say so! (I'm irish...the
    > fact they even put caps on beer bottles boggles my mind!).
    >
    > Anyhow, don't be picking on John....he's doing US a GREAT service
    > through his own works and experience. He's our contact to the brains
    > behind the beast. The brains couldn't do the job....this is what he's
    > reporting.
    >
    > Sure there are tech messiah's hanging out in basements with perf board
    > ideas...although I doubt many have SMD fab setups at home...which means
    > many future ideas will only come from the corporate community and it's
    > $$.
    >
    > Anyhow....I keep typing a erasing....this is a support forum...not some
    > political slander site! sb
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: "Steve Roberts" <sroberts@s...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 4:06 PM
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] hubris?
    >
    >
    > > Hi everyone!
    > > I'm just an observer, but I'm afraid that, intended or not, Jon
    > Williams'
    > > tone in his responses to questions about the feature set of the Stamp
    > > interpreter, and potential enhancements, gives the impression of
    > > hubris
    > and
    > > the "not invented here" syndrome, and is a disservice to Parallax
    > customers.
    > > We all know and appreciate that Jon has done a lot of very helpful
    > > work in the past, and his contributions have gone far in making the
    > > Parallax products more generally useful to a broader and broader
    > > audience.
    > >
    > > But, as can happen, often unknowingly, becoming closely associated
    > > with a product can sometimes cloud one's overall perspective of the
    > > market and
    > the
    > > customer base. Here are a few (admittedly out-of-context) quotes from
    > Jon's
    > > responses in this thread:
    > >
    > > >Garage shops and copy-cats don't have to hold themselves to the same
    > > >standards that we do.
    > >
    > > >If it was possible at all we would be doing it now.
    > >
    > > Think IBM and the PC business. Probably some guy somewhere in a
    > > 'garage shop', maybe even a current Parallax customer, has some really
    >
    > > good ideas right now.
    > >
    > > >Again, YOU'RE WRONG. Please take my word for it.
    > >
    > > >Okay, let me make it more clear: it is not possible with the current
    > > >BASIC Stamp architecture.
    > >
    > > >There is not going to be a PBASIC 2.6 ... we're frying much bigger
    > > >fish.
    > >
    > > >But unlike our
    > > >competitors, when we do something new we tend to do something really
    > new...
    > >
    > > >I wish I could tell you what's coming, but I
    > > >can't. Trust me, it's unbelievably cool,...
    > >
    > > Of course, the customer is not __always__ right. But the customer
    > > should never be disparaged for not sharing the same point of view as
    > > corporate management. In my opinion, the tone of Jon's responses,
    > > however well-intentioned, do not cast Parallax in a favorable light. I
    >
    > > personally think Parallax is a great company, and I'm glad they're
    > > here. But I also think Jon needs to be a little more careful when
    > > acting as a Parallax corporate presence on this list.
    > >
    > > And finally, please, this is just my own personal reaction to this
    > > thread as a neutral observer and a Parallax customer. My intention is
    > > not to criticize Jon personally, but just to point out that sometimes
    > > one can get too close to an issue, and that a little broader
    > > perspective on the customer base would benefit everyone. Stamp on!!!
    > >
    > > Steve
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    > > and
    > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > This message has been scanned by WebShield. Please report SPAM to
    > abuse@p....
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
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