Thought of a project......
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Posts: 46,084
Hey y'all,
I have seriously considered building an alcoholic still (for
drinking) for some time now. Don't worry; you can apply for a permit
to make one, and they basically just hand them out.
I also recently got into robotics, and purchased a BS2 (actually, the
BOE pack).
I saw a potentially connection yesterday-- a fully automated still.
There are many aspects of creating alcohol that are detailed and
minute-- such as boiling off any methanol (will blind you) by getting
the solution to just the right temperature, and then heating it
further to get ethanol (what you want) out of it.
In any case, just wondering if anyone has ever thought about this.
Oh yeah, a more specific question as well: I am thinking of different
ways to measure when a fully sealed copper pot empties, or mostly
empties. I've thought of measuring the weight of it; or maybe a
bobber system with a switch or a pot. But how would I go about this?
Thanks for any and all responses.
I have seriously considered building an alcoholic still (for
drinking) for some time now. Don't worry; you can apply for a permit
to make one, and they basically just hand them out.
I also recently got into robotics, and purchased a BS2 (actually, the
BOE pack).
I saw a potentially connection yesterday-- a fully automated still.
There are many aspects of creating alcohol that are detailed and
minute-- such as boiling off any methanol (will blind you) by getting
the solution to just the right temperature, and then heating it
further to get ethanol (what you want) out of it.
In any case, just wondering if anyone has ever thought about this.
Oh yeah, a more specific question as well: I am thinking of different
ways to measure when a fully sealed copper pot empties, or mostly
empties. I've thought of measuring the weight of it; or maybe a
bobber system with a switch or a pot. But how would I go about this?
Thanks for any and all responses.
Comments
I have done some distilling, with my Uncle when I was younger. He used to
make some awful brandy that we would drink in the basement. He was a
machinist, and had constructed a very nice still. The problems I see with
your project is that A): A lot of sensors will be needed, from flow sensors,
pressure sensors and heat sensors, and
nasty explosion. I would be to paranoid to leave a still in charge of a
piece of silicon.
However, if you do work on this project, I would make your still, dial it in
and get it working well, then start taking less critical processes and
automating them. I suppose if you are sitting there watching it, it would be
ok, but then why automate it?
Be careful!
Jonathan
www.madlabs.info
Original Message
From: "robobird17" <robobird17@y...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Thought of a project......
> Hey y'all,
>
> I have seriously considered building an alcoholic still (for
> drinking) for some time now. Don't worry; you can apply for a permit
> to make one, and they basically just hand them out.
>
> I also recently got into robotics, and purchased a BS2 (actually, the
> BOE pack).
> I saw a potentially connection yesterday-- a fully automated still.
> There are many aspects of creating alcohol that are detailed and
> minute-- such as boiling off any methanol (will blind you) by getting
> the solution to just the right temperature, and then heating it
> further to get ethanol (what you want) out of it.
> In any case, just wondering if anyone has ever thought about this.
>
> Oh yeah, a more specific question as well: I am thinking of different
> ways to measure when a fully sealed copper pot empties, or mostly
> empties. I've thought of measuring the weight of it; or maybe a
> bobber system with a switch or a pot. But how would I go about this?
>
> Thanks for any and all responses.
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
<jpeakall@p...> wrote:
> Robobird,
>
> I have done some distilling, with my Uncle when I was younger. He
used to
> make some awful brandy that we would drink in the basement. He was a
> machinist, and had constructed a very nice still. The problems I
see with
> your project is that A): A lot of sensors will be needed, from flow
sensors,
> pressure sensors and heat sensors, and
lead to a
> nasty explosion. I would be to paranoid to leave a still in charge
of a
> piece of silicon.
>
> However, if you do work on this project, I would make your still,
dial it in
> and get it working well, then start taking less critical processes
and
> automating them. I suppose if you are sitting there watching it, it
would be
> ok, but then why automate it?
>
> Be careful!
>
> Jonathan
I agree and disagree.
First BE CAREFUL !!!!
as for automating things, isn't that what we want to do ?
On the BE CAREFUL side, make over pressure safeties on everything,
blow out ports that direct the blowout into a safe area. your home
hot water heater has such a thing. your still should too.
I also agree that you should build the unit and then start adding
sensors with you doing the control by hand. That would offer you the
ability to calibrate them BEFORE you turn over control.
Then, use an LED to indicate when a control action should be taking
place so you can verify that it occurs when you expected, then you
turn the crank or handle or whatever.
Then add control in steps, with the most safe things being controlled
first.
As for your kettle. Metals will not rise in temperature above the
liquid in which they are immersed. That means that your kettle that
is filled with 10 gallons of liquid cannot become 1,000 degrees,
unless the liquid is 1,000 degrees. This is why pots don't get red
hot when making spaghetti and are sitting on high for 30 minutes.
Try that with and empty pan and it will get red.
There is a release of energy when a substance changes phase. water
cools from 211 to 33 degrees F with X number of BTU's. and here is
the neat part. It takes the SAME AMMOUNT of BTU's to go from 211 to
33 as it takes to go from 33 to 32 WHEN IT MAKES ICE. Changing from
a liquid phase to a solid phase is really energy intensive. (and why
ice sits in your glass for so long)
In your case, the kettle will not get over some hundreds of degrees
as long as there is liquid. But, as soon as it evaporates, the
kettle temperature will start to rise over some limits.
So, you can monitor kettle temperature and know if there is liquid
inside. But, make sure your sensor is not in the flame, but in the
kettle.
Hope this was of interest and some help. if it was , you can send
samples to Dave.......
Dave
came across wine makers and their stamp setups.
I have 3 stamps so my suggestion is less $$ to start...but I'd use 2 stamps
in your application. One for process and one for monitoring. You could
send I/O strings to the process stamp to let it know what it's state is..
Encode 1's and 0's for different byte states....and then you just have to
kill the processes that are in alarm state.
Also, be sure that the process stamp will be in a "Dead Safe" state...being
that if power fails, it disengages all active circuits....except monitoring
of course; that's ALWAYS good! [noparse];)[/noparse]
I'm not entirely sure if "stilling" is a 'steeping' process or if things
boil...but you aren't going to get accurate readings with weighing for
quantity or using a bobber either!
Just a quick think on this....on a single kettle (or whatever ya call
it)....you're going to need the following sensors.
"Tank Low" sensor
"Tank Full" sensor
"Tank Overfill" sensor
"Burner On" sensor
"Kettle Temp" sensor
Then if you're going to have automated filling and such you'll need pumps
and drains and associated flow sensors.
Big project....so start small!!
And take lots of pics for us to see!!
Original Message
From: "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 1:16 PM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Thought of a project......
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Peakall"
> <jpeakall@p...> wrote:
> > Robobird,
> >
> > I have done some distilling, with my Uncle when I was younger. He
> used to
> > make some awful brandy that we would drink in the basement. He was a
> > machinist, and had constructed a very nice still. The problems I
> see with
> > your project is that A): A lot of sensors will be needed, from flow
> sensors,
> > pressure sensors and heat sensors, and
> lead to a
> > nasty explosion. I would be to paranoid to leave a still in charge
> of a
> > piece of silicon.
> >
> > However, if you do work on this project, I would make your still,
> dial it in
> > and get it working well, then start taking less critical processes
> and
> > automating them. I suppose if you are sitting there watching it, it
> would be
> > ok, but then why automate it?
> >
> > Be careful!
> >
> > Jonathan
>
>
> I agree and disagree.
>
> First BE CAREFUL !!!!
>
> as for automating things, isn't that what we want to do ?
>
> On the BE CAREFUL side, make over pressure safeties on everything,
> blow out ports that direct the blowout into a safe area. your home
> hot water heater has such a thing. your still should too.
>
> I also agree that you should build the unit and then start adding
> sensors with you doing the control by hand. That would offer you the
> ability to calibrate them BEFORE you turn over control.
>
> Then, use an LED to indicate when a control action should be taking
> place so you can verify that it occurs when you expected, then you
> turn the crank or handle or whatever.
>
> Then add control in steps, with the most safe things being controlled
> first.
>
> As for your kettle. Metals will not rise in temperature above the
> liquid in which they are immersed. That means that your kettle that
> is filled with 10 gallons of liquid cannot become 1,000 degrees,
> unless the liquid is 1,000 degrees. This is why pots don't get red
> hot when making spaghetti and are sitting on high for 30 minutes.
> Try that with and empty pan and it will get red.
>
> There is a release of energy when a substance changes phase. water
> cools from 211 to 33 degrees F with X number of BTU's. and here is
> the neat part. It takes the SAME AMMOUNT of BTU's to go from 211 to
> 33 as it takes to go from 33 to 32 WHEN IT MAKES ICE. Changing from
> a liquid phase to a solid phase is really energy intensive. (and why
> ice sits in your glass for so long)
>
> In your case, the kettle will not get over some hundreds of degrees
> as long as there is liquid. But, as soon as it evaporates, the
> kettle temperature will start to rise over some limits.
>
> So, you can monitor kettle temperature and know if there is liquid
> inside. But, make sure your sensor is not in the flame, but in the
> kettle.
>
> Hope this was of interest and some help. if it was , you can send
> samples to Dave.......
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
surprise me when I compare the size of your project to mine.
I have all eight banks programmed in my project.
If you are jumping from bank to bank, Tracy Allen will probably
suggest passing variables at specific locations in memory. I use a
different implementation also authored by Tracy.
It is a stack. I even push my local, critical variables on the stack
before running a different bank. It works wonders for me. If you
have questions, feel free to write me at FrankSmith512@y....
Design well. Each off my banks has a very specific task. For
example,
Bank 0 - task manager
Bank 1 - handles keyboard and LCD I/O
Bank 2 - positions a linear actuator and monitors its location
Good luck,
Frank
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "robobird17" <robobird17@y...>
wrote:
> Hey y'all,
>
> I have seriously considered building an alcoholic still (for
> drinking) for some time now. Don't worry; you can apply for a
permit
> to make one, and they basically just hand them out.
>
> I also recently got into robotics, and purchased a BS2 (actually,
the
> BOE pack).
> I saw a potentially connection yesterday-- a fully automated still.
> There are many aspects of creating alcohol that are detailed and
> minute-- such as boiling off any methanol (will blind you) by
getting
> the solution to just the right temperature, and then heating it
> further to get ethanol (what you want) out of it.
> In any case, just wondering if anyone has ever thought about this.
>
> Oh yeah, a more specific question as well: I am thinking of
different
> ways to measure when a fully sealed copper pot empties, or mostly
> empties. I've thought of measuring the weight of it; or maybe a
> bobber system with a switch or a pot. But how would I go about this?
>
> Thanks for any and all responses.