A Scoring Box for the Fencing Club- TIMING
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--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "argon5w" <argon5w@y...> wrote:
> Dave and Mark,
>
> So the basics have been decided on and the extras can be added
> later. A proven working basic box seems to be a good place to
start
> and features could be added later. Now just layout, programming,
> and a shopping trip.
>
> Starter box:
>
> BOE kit to start
> 1/20th delay before lockout
Here, I have a question for the guru's of the list.
I am thinking of the best way to watch the inputs.
It seems the program could sit and wait for an input, or just run
waitning until one of the two inputs go high (or low)
My question comes to the exact timing that would be possible with a
Stamp ?
Since it is a simple program, and there are really only things like
reset, start and light some LED's
Can someone shed some light on timing, or the best way to time 1/120
of a second as accuratly as possible ?
Dave
> Dave and Mark,
>
> So the basics have been decided on and the extras can be added
> later. A proven working basic box seems to be a good place to
start
> and features could be added later. Now just layout, programming,
> and a shopping trip.
>
> Starter box:
>
> BOE kit to start
> 1/20th delay before lockout
Here, I have a question for the guru's of the list.
I am thinking of the best way to watch the inputs.
It seems the program could sit and wait for an input, or just run
waitning until one of the two inputs go high (or low)
My question comes to the exact timing that would be possible with a
Stamp ?
Since it is a simple program, and there are really only things like
reset, start and light some LED's
Can someone shed some light on timing, or the best way to time 1/120
of a second as accuratly as possible ?
Dave
Comments
computer must do during that time.
In the software, when a touch was noted, you could gosub into a
pause statement for the length that you desire. Then go back. This would
give you the pause you desire. However, it would be blind during the pause,
and the execution time would be an unknown.
If it was me, I would write the software. Then put in a toggle
statement on some unused pin. Then each time the program comes back around,
it would toggle the pin. The period of the toggle (on an oscilloscope)
would give you the loop time. Then put in a pause statement to add length
(if necessary).
$000.021121<G>.
Original Message
From: Dave Mucha [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=6sRDd9gYzkLGwU9d_01fuYNhL3KV4eYc8Nn4RBfV_jQUrNRfRhdvVmofyxUNlUnyD91cm2pm7av3ms98Og]davemucha@j...[/url
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:03 PM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: A Scoring Box for the Fencing Club- TIMING
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "argon5w" <argon5w@y...> wrote:
> Dave and Mark,
>
> So the basics have been decided on and the extras can be added
> later. A proven working basic box seems to be a good place to
start
> and features could be added later. Now just layout, programming,
> and a shopping trip.
>
> Starter box:
>
> BOE kit to start
> 1/20th delay before lockout
Here, I have a question for the guru's of the list.
I am thinking of the best way to watch the inputs.
It seems the program could sit and wait for an input, or just run
waitning until one of the two inputs go high (or low)
My question comes to the exact timing that would be possible with a
Stamp ?
Since it is a simple program, and there are really only things like
reset, start and light some LED's
Can someone shed some light on timing, or the best way to time 1/120
of a second as accuratly as possible ?
Dave
To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
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<grover.richardson@g...> wrote:
> It depends upon the writing of the software and what all the
> computer must do during that time.
>
> In the software, when a touch was noted, you could gosub into
a
> pause statement for the length that you desire. Then go back.
This would
> give you the pause you desire. However, it would be blind during
the pause,
> and the execution time would be an unknown.
>
> If it was me, I would write the software. Then put in a
toggle
> statement on some unused pin. Then each time the program comes
back around,
> it would toggle the pin. The period of the toggle (on an
oscilloscope)
> would give you the loop time. Then put in a pause statement to add
length
> (if necessary).
>
> $000.021121<G>.
Interesting. I was thinking of an external 555 that would be a one
shot.
Hope this thread gets more responses.
Dave
reliable clock source, giving you a nice square
wave -- like 50 mSec or so. (125 times per sec
is 8 mSec, which is do-able. 10 mSec gives
nice power-of-10 results, though)
So, your program waits for the 'clock' signal
to fall. You then run and get the data for
that cycle. Your program does whatever
processing you need, then goes back to
wait for the next 'clock' drop.
This synchronizes your processor's action to
'wall' time. If one decision cycle takes a
little longer than another, no big deal, as
long as it doesn't take more than 5 mSec, because
that next clock tick is coming.
Search the Forum on 'sMT' -- there used to
be an off the shelf product which did this.
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...>
wrote:
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Grover Richardson"
> <grover.richardson@g...> wrote:
> > It depends upon the writing of the software and what all the
> > computer must do during that time.
> >
> > In the software, when a touch was noted, you could gosub into
> a
> > pause statement for the length that you desire. Then go back.
> This would
> > give you the pause you desire. However, it would be blind during
> the pause,
> > and the execution time would be an unknown.
> >
> > If it was me, I would write the software. Then put in a
> toggle
> > statement on some unused pin. Then each time the program comes
> back around,
> > it would toggle the pin. The period of the toggle (on an
> oscilloscope)
> > would give you the loop time. Then put in a pause statement to
add
> length
> > (if necessary).
> >
> > $000.021121<G>.
>
>
> Interesting. I was thinking of an external 555 that would be a one
> shot.
>
> Hope this thread gets more responses.
>
> Dave
convenience.
I don't know if Allan/Jon has said anything about this....but each operation
in the stamp uses up time. So if you have to be 'dead-on' 1/20th of a
second then you best check with him (or his website) on time delays with
each operation.
If it's just for novelty/convenience....then a 555 one shot would work I
guess! [noparse]:D[/noparse]
Original Message
From: "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 3:51 PM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: A Scoring Box for the Fencing Club- TIMING
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Grover Richardson"
> <grover.richardson@g...> wrote:
> > It depends upon the writing of the software and what all the
> > computer must do during that time.
> >
> > In the software, when a touch was noted, you could gosub into
> a
> > pause statement for the length that you desire. Then go back.
> This would
> > give you the pause you desire. However, it would be blind during
> the pause,
> > and the execution time would be an unknown.
> >
> > If it was me, I would write the software. Then put in a
> toggle
> > statement on some unused pin. Then each time the program comes
> back around,
> > it would toggle the pin. The period of the toggle (on an
> oscilloscope)
> > would give you the loop time. Then put in a pause statement to add
> length
> > (if necessary).
> >
> > $000.021121<G>.
>
>
> Interesting. I was thinking of an external 555 that would be a one
> shot.
>
> Hope this thread gets more responses.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
with a couple of IC's at a FRACTION of the cost of a Basic Dtamp.
If interested let me know. I can fax a schematic or explain what IC's and
gates etc.
Ken
==========================
Here, I have a question for the guru's of the list.
I am thinking of the best way to watch the inputs.
It seems the program could sit and wait for an input, or just run
waitning until one of the two inputs go high (or low)
My question comes to the exact timing that would be possible with a
Stamp ?
Since it is a simple program, and there are really only things like
reset, start and light some LED's
Can someone shed some light on timing, or the best way to time 1/120
of a second as accuratly as possible ?
[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
real boxes need to be certified by a fencing organization to be used
in tournaments. This unit will only be used for school and local
tournaments. Accuracy is important but if we are only talking about
a few msecs then there is no concern.
Richard
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "SB" <steve.brady@r...> wrote:
> i'm not sure if this unit will be used for competition...or just
for
> convenience.
> I don't know if Allan/Jon has said anything about this....but each
operation
> in the stamp uses up time. So if you have to be 'dead-on' 1/20th
of a
> second then you best check with him (or his website) on time
delays with
> each operation.
>
> If it's just for novelty/convenience....then a 555 one shot would
work I
> guess! [noparse]:D[/noparse]
regulation speed trap (70mph or something can never remember) the other one
shoots about 20mph slower.
This will give the shooter the chance to train and get the reward of hitting
targets.
Then when you move to the faster machine it's "easier" (sure it is! haha) to
adjust to the speed with your stance already perfected.
Vice versa....we sometimes speed up the trap so that it's faster than regs.
This is done coming up to competition....and I swear, it's like the
regulation traps are moving in slow motion with the difference.
Just a thought, putting in a "novice/intermediate/pro" setting might be an
idea to help out the different skill levels.
Original Message
From: "argon5w" <argon5w@y...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 9:51 PM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: A Scoring Box for the Fencing Club- TIMING
> This unit will be used mostly for training at a junior college. The
> real boxes need to be certified by a fencing organization to be used
> in tournaments. This unit will only be used for school and local
> tournaments. Accuracy is important but if we are only talking about
> a few msecs then there is no concern.
>
> Richard
>
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "SB" <steve.brady@r...> wrote:
> > i'm not sure if this unit will be used for competition...or just
> for
> > convenience.
> > I don't know if Allan/Jon has said anything about this....but each
> operation
> > in the stamp uses up time. So if you have to be 'dead-on' 1/20th
> of a
> > second then you best check with him (or his website) on time
> delays with
> > each operation.
> >
> > If it's just for novelty/convenience....then a 555 one shot would
> work I
> > guess! [noparse]:D[/noparse]
>
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
because if a hit is less than 10 mS, I would question if it were a good hit,
good enough to disable the opponent (so to speak<G>). Of course, you can go
to 5 mS clock cycles, have twice the ability to ensure that a full cycle
does coincide with a full hit time length.
Just thinking further<G>.
Woof
Original Message
From: Allan Lane [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=6Z4RteAwC6nuU1MvxgkwmvwksNayHj6okEsJLw7Vyn_f9SWJY7SWEkn1mpse45Siz3Q--WpYrVfIRa49Zdq2Z_nqyfHX]allan.lane@h...[/url
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 5:02 PM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: A Scoring Box for the Fencing Club- TIMING
The 'classic' solution to this is to have some
reliable clock source, giving you a nice square
wave -- like 50 mSec or so. (125 times per sec
is 8 mSec, which is do-able. 10 mSec gives
nice power-of-10 results, though)
So, your program waits for the 'clock' signal
to fall. You then run and get the data for
that cycle. Your program does whatever
processing you need, then goes back to
wait for the next 'clock' drop.
This synchronizes your processor's action to
'wall' time. If one decision cycle takes a
little longer than another, no big deal, as
long as it doesn't take more than 5 mSec, because
that next clock tick is coming.
Search the Forum on 'sMT' -- there used to
be an off the shelf product which did this.
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...>
wrote:
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Grover Richardson"
> <grover.richardson@g...> wrote:
> > It depends upon the writing of the software and what all the
> > computer must do during that time.
> >
> > In the software, when a touch was noted, you could gosub into
> a
> > pause statement for the length that you desire. Then go back.
> This would
> > give you the pause you desire. However, it would be blind during
> the pause,
> > and the execution time would be an unknown.
> >
> > If it was me, I would write the software. Then put in a
> toggle
> > statement on some unused pin. Then each time the program comes
> back around,
> > it would toggle the pin. The period of the toggle (on an
> oscilloscope)
> > would give you the loop time. Then put in a pause statement to
add
> length
> > (if necessary).
> >
> > $000.021121<G>.
>
>
> Interesting. I was thinking of an external 555 that would be a one
> shot.
>
> Hope this thread gets more responses.
>
> Dave
To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
Yahoo! Groups Links
> At my shooting club (trap), they have 2 sets of traps. One shoots
the
> regulation speed trap (70mph or something can never remember) the
other one
> shoots about 20mph slower.
> This will give the shooter the chance to train and get the reward
of hitting
> targets.
> Then when you move to the faster machine it's "easier" (sure it is!
haha) to
> adjust to the speed with your stance already perfected.
>
> Vice versa....we sometimes speed up the trap so that it's faster
than regs.
> This is done coming up to competition....and I swear, it's like the
> regulation traps are moving in slow motion with the difference.
>
> Just a thought, putting in a "novice/intermediate/pro" setting
might be an
> idea to help out the different skill levels.
>
Very interesting take on the project.
As I think I said in my first post, doing the preliminary sensing in
hardware before it gets to the Stamp would offer some benifits. It
seems that doing the timing off-Stamp would offer somewhat higher
accuracy, but for training it might be unnecessary.
But... having a slow speed to let the beginner score in a longer
window might be neat. Personally, I'd be happy to know I got the
other guy, even it it was slower than the clock.
And that is where the Stamp would shine. a digital display would not
be hard to do, say two digits showing fractions of a second and a
second tone or blinking light would acknoledge the hit was good, but
too slow.
But, I imagine that the number of times it happens is not too great.
I might have to visit the local collage to see if they have any
events.
If course if I was to do the no-holds-barred version, I'd have to
include the humming sound of Obi-Wan Kenobi's light saber and the
neat effects of sparks whenever the two foils touched.....
... and heavy mechanical breathing for the judges announcements.....
.... now the circle is complete.
Dave
the second hit. Remember, we're talking 20 millisecond grace here. A
person's nervous system takes a lot longer than 20ms to recieve and process
stimuli. The second hit rule isn't to give the "hit" person a change to
react and score back - its simply there for simultaneous hits by moves that
were already in progress. Increasing the grace period would make no real
difference.
Hey allan....are you my father?! (in raspy voice!)
Original Message
From: "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...>
To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:32 AM
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: A Scoring Box for the Fencing Club- TIMING
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "SB" <steve.brady@r...> wrote:
> > At my shooting club (trap), they have 2 sets of traps. One shoots
> the
> > regulation speed trap (70mph or something can never remember) the
> other one
> > shoots about 20mph slower.
> > This will give the shooter the chance to train and get the reward
> of hitting
> > targets.
> > Then when you move to the faster machine it's "easier" (sure it is!
> haha) to
> > adjust to the speed with your stance already perfected.
> >
> > Vice versa....we sometimes speed up the trap so that it's faster
> than regs.
> > This is done coming up to competition....and I swear, it's like the
> > regulation traps are moving in slow motion with the difference.
> >
> > Just a thought, putting in a "novice/intermediate/pro" setting
> might be an
> > idea to help out the different skill levels.
> >
>
> Very interesting take on the project.
>
> As I think I said in my first post, doing the preliminary sensing in
> hardware before it gets to the Stamp would offer some benifits. It
> seems that doing the timing off-Stamp would offer somewhat higher
> accuracy, but for training it might be unnecessary.
>
> But... having a slow speed to let the beginner score in a longer
> window might be neat. Personally, I'd be happy to know I got the
> other guy, even it it was slower than the clock.
>
> And that is where the Stamp would shine. a digital display would not
> be hard to do, say two digits showing fractions of a second and a
> second tone or blinking light would acknoledge the hit was good, but
> too slow.
>
> But, I imagine that the number of times it happens is not too great.
>
> I might have to visit the local collage to see if they have any
> events.
>
> If course if I was to do the no-holds-barred version, I'd have to
> include the humming sound of Obi-Wan Kenobi's light saber and the
> neat effects of sparks whenever the two foils touched.....
>
> ... and heavy mechanical breathing for the judges announcements.....
>
> .... now the circle is complete.
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
foil fencing (no electronics) there are various rules about who
starts their attack first and who was in defence etc. In epee the
rules have been simplified and they are more practical and true to a
real fight.
If you want to go all out with the box then a 3 weapon box would be
a big hit. Different weapons have different rules and methods of
fighting. In electric foil (not epee) the fighters wear an
electricallly conductve vest since foil only counts hits to the
torso. In epee any hit counts so the tip switch works best. In
electric sabre (the fastest) the rules are different still and they
wear vests with a wire connecting the mask also. Each weapon has a
different timing consideration also.
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, PatM <pmeloy@s...> wrote:
> I think people might be losing sight of the purpose (and
practicality) for
> the second hit. Remember, we're talking 20 millisecond grace here.
A
> person's nervous system takes a lot longer than 20ms to recieve
and process
> stimuli. The second hit rule isn't to give the "hit" person a
change to
> react and score back - its simply there for simultaneous hits by
moves that
> were already in progress. Increasing the grace period would make
no real
> difference.
> That is exactly what the time has been included for. In classical
> foil fencing (no electronics) there are various rules about who
> starts their attack first and who was in defence etc. In epee the
> rules have been simplified and they are more practical and true to
a
> real fight.
>
> If you want to go all out with the box then a 3 weapon box would be
> a big hit. Different weapons have different rules and methods of
> fighting. In electric foil (not epee) the fighters wear an
> electricallly conductve vest since foil only counts hits to the
> torso. In epee any hit counts so the tip switch works best. In
> electric sabre (the fastest) the rules are different still and they
> wear vests with a wire connecting the mask also. Each weapon has a
> different timing consideration also.
So, you saying the 4th style is pure Hollywood ? guess the sparks
and sound effects are reserved for the Bid Screen !
But on a serous note, I would deffinatly include the ability for all
three in such a project. There would be little additional work to
have each mode available.
btw, I think we already know that reaction time would not allow a
person to make a strike after being hit, but I do believe a beginner
would not know what 20mS is, so some reading would acknoledge that he
did make contact, but that it was not within the alloted time.
Dave