A Scoring Box for the Fencing Club- which Stamp ?
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Posts: 46,084
For this project, I thing a BS2 is all you need.
Reasons,
If you allow 1/20th of a second between scoring strikes the BS2 is
fast enough.
as far as outputs go, you can use a simple multiplexer to get 8
additional outputs from 3 pins, or 16 from 4 pins so the BS2 has the
range of outputs you would need.
You can use the low level output to a Darlington to switch a relay or
MOSFET. The ouput of the Stamp can connect to a 200 V / 27 amp
MOSFET. if your lamps are larger than that, demms some BIG lamps !
You can data log the event for later review, including the actual
time between strikes, and/or you can use an LCD display for the
coaches to see the actual time, just in case it is 1/19th of a second
and just a tad too slow [noparse]:([/noparse] We probably need to check the pro's on
the timing parts.
it can be run from your battery.
the BS2 has the widest range of accessories. the BS1 and 40 pin
units have their place, but they just don't have as wide a range of
add-on's.
I think a Board of Education would be a good start as it allows
testing for the non-electronics types, or the lightning fast circuit
testings.
As always, this list is here for your questions.
Dave
http://www.visualmuses.com/chipcircuit/index.html
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "eashandie" <eashandie@y...>
wrote:
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...>
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > That is close to a wireless scoring box. Fencers have wires
> > attached
> > > to the back of their jackets. The 3conductor wire goes up and
> > > through the jacket and exits the at the hand and plugs into the
> > > weapon. Both fencers carry an A, B, and C lead. That is the
> inputs
> > > that I refer to. The "B" lead is a high voltage. If the tip of
> the
> > > sword makes contact with the floor or the other fencers
> > > bellguard, "B" grounds low. The inputs would be A=low B=low
> C=low.
> > > In other words, you have grounded out your weapon on a non-
> target.
> > > If you hit a good target, the tip switch is closed and the "A"
> line
> > > comes back high. In other words, A=high B=high C=low. I need
one
> > > stamp to monitor the A,B, and C of each fencer and look for
> fencers
> > > that score on-target hits. Will the stamp look at the inputs
and
> > > then based on who wins the hit, turn on scoring lights?
> > >
> > > Hope this clarifies some things.
> > >
> > > Mark
> >
> >
> > a THOUSAND BUX for a WIRED unit ? I'll make you FOUR for that
> kind
> > of $$$$.
> >
> >
> > OK, sounds like you have the switch contact stuff all worked out.
> >
> > A question becomes of how fast the timing can occur and how fast
> you
> > need to be.
> >
> > In the Olympics, there was a ski run where it was declared a tie
> as
> > both skiers clocked within 0.001 seconds. The clock people timed
> the
> > event to 0.00001 seconds so they (and only they) knew as the
> Olympic
> > rules did not allow looking past the 0.001 seconds.
> >
> > In your case, a comparitor for each person can look at each
signal
> > and determine if it was a good hit or a bad hit. Call this stage
1
> >
> > then another comparitor can look at those two outputs and see
> which
> > is first. call this stage 2
> >
> > The output of the raw signals and each stage1 would be monitored
> by
> > the Stamp. The output of Stage2 would also be monitored.
> >
> > That way, the good input is only one input and is really the
first
> > good hit.
> >
> > We could (for the intellectual argument sake) review the speed
> > difference between strikes if the Stamp were the only sensor. My
> > take is that if the strike happened just past the program loop,
> the
> > first time the program looked at the inputs, it will always show
> one
> > before the other. The comparitor will only output one value and
> that
> > will be much closer to the first strike. I'm guessing it will be
> 100
> > times faster than the software comparitor.
> >
> > The Stamp would monitor both raw signals and the output of the
> > comparitors. It would indicate any hit so you can get the good
an
> > bad.
> >
> > The Stamp could see that output and start it's program from there.
> >
> > It would then look to see if the signal was an error or a good
> strike.
> >
> > I would be interested in the idea of an IR transmitter on the
> people
> > and the speed difference of a non-wired system.
> >
> > Anyway, what you are talking about is a great Stamp project !
> >
> > Dave
>
> That is some great strategy on the program. I like all those ideas.
> Some more clarification about the timing of the two weapon strikes.
> Both fencers can score on any given attack and parry. The trick is
> that the second fencer only has 1/20 of a second to switch the
> switch on his tip. You would start the counter immediately when the
> first fencer switches his switch. I am sure that the stamp is more
> than capable of not allowing a hit after 1/20 of a second. That is
> the only real timing that is necessary. Usually... the second
fencer
> is not in a position to parry in the alotted time. And then
> sometimes there are some very quick blades. Anyhow, I am looking
for
> the correct kit to order. Still leaning towards the 24 input/output
> stamp. At some point I am sure we will want to get some fancier
> types of outputs, so I think the extra outputs will be used.
>
> At some point I will also need to attach some other parts to my
box.
> I am talking about the scoring lights and test lights and buzzer.
> When a score is made, there is an audible alarm and then someones
> light turns on to show who scored. Sometimes, if the parry is
quick,
> both lights will be on. The outputs of the stamp will go high to
> turn on a buzzer and then one or both scoring lights. There will
> need to be some sort of circuits to turn these 12vdc "taillights"
> on. The scoring lights are not small leds, they are larger lights
> that can be seen in a tournament. I don't think a stamp will put
out
> enough current for the lights and buzzer. I am going to build it
> using a 12vdc battery. A small, light-weight one, like a lawn
> tractor, will be easy to carry and yet add stability and weight to
> the box. The box sits at mid-court and needs some presences to keep
> it from moving too easily. Imagine something like a tall kitchen
> trash can. Heavy at the bottom and some lights on the top. The body
> cords from the fencers weapons travel to the back of the courts and
> then down the sides and into the box.
>
> Thanks for all the input. It is very much appreciated. I hope that
> my ramblings have shed some more light on the subject of Epee
> Fencing and what kinda thing scores the dual. LOL.
Reasons,
If you allow 1/20th of a second between scoring strikes the BS2 is
fast enough.
as far as outputs go, you can use a simple multiplexer to get 8
additional outputs from 3 pins, or 16 from 4 pins so the BS2 has the
range of outputs you would need.
You can use the low level output to a Darlington to switch a relay or
MOSFET. The ouput of the Stamp can connect to a 200 V / 27 amp
MOSFET. if your lamps are larger than that, demms some BIG lamps !
You can data log the event for later review, including the actual
time between strikes, and/or you can use an LCD display for the
coaches to see the actual time, just in case it is 1/19th of a second
and just a tad too slow [noparse]:([/noparse] We probably need to check the pro's on
the timing parts.
it can be run from your battery.
the BS2 has the widest range of accessories. the BS1 and 40 pin
units have their place, but they just don't have as wide a range of
add-on's.
I think a Board of Education would be a good start as it allows
testing for the non-electronics types, or the lightning fast circuit
testings.
As always, this list is here for your questions.
Dave
http://www.visualmuses.com/chipcircuit/index.html
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "eashandie" <eashandie@y...>
wrote:
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...>
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > That is close to a wireless scoring box. Fencers have wires
> > attached
> > > to the back of their jackets. The 3conductor wire goes up and
> > > through the jacket and exits the at the hand and plugs into the
> > > weapon. Both fencers carry an A, B, and C lead. That is the
> inputs
> > > that I refer to. The "B" lead is a high voltage. If the tip of
> the
> > > sword makes contact with the floor or the other fencers
> > > bellguard, "B" grounds low. The inputs would be A=low B=low
> C=low.
> > > In other words, you have grounded out your weapon on a non-
> target.
> > > If you hit a good target, the tip switch is closed and the "A"
> line
> > > comes back high. In other words, A=high B=high C=low. I need
one
> > > stamp to monitor the A,B, and C of each fencer and look for
> fencers
> > > that score on-target hits. Will the stamp look at the inputs
and
> > > then based on who wins the hit, turn on scoring lights?
> > >
> > > Hope this clarifies some things.
> > >
> > > Mark
> >
> >
> > a THOUSAND BUX for a WIRED unit ? I'll make you FOUR for that
> kind
> > of $$$$.
> >
> >
> > OK, sounds like you have the switch contact stuff all worked out.
> >
> > A question becomes of how fast the timing can occur and how fast
> you
> > need to be.
> >
> > In the Olympics, there was a ski run where it was declared a tie
> as
> > both skiers clocked within 0.001 seconds. The clock people timed
> the
> > event to 0.00001 seconds so they (and only they) knew as the
> Olympic
> > rules did not allow looking past the 0.001 seconds.
> >
> > In your case, a comparitor for each person can look at each
signal
> > and determine if it was a good hit or a bad hit. Call this stage
1
> >
> > then another comparitor can look at those two outputs and see
> which
> > is first. call this stage 2
> >
> > The output of the raw signals and each stage1 would be monitored
> by
> > the Stamp. The output of Stage2 would also be monitored.
> >
> > That way, the good input is only one input and is really the
first
> > good hit.
> >
> > We could (for the intellectual argument sake) review the speed
> > difference between strikes if the Stamp were the only sensor. My
> > take is that if the strike happened just past the program loop,
> the
> > first time the program looked at the inputs, it will always show
> one
> > before the other. The comparitor will only output one value and
> that
> > will be much closer to the first strike. I'm guessing it will be
> 100
> > times faster than the software comparitor.
> >
> > The Stamp would monitor both raw signals and the output of the
> > comparitors. It would indicate any hit so you can get the good
an
> > bad.
> >
> > The Stamp could see that output and start it's program from there.
> >
> > It would then look to see if the signal was an error or a good
> strike.
> >
> > I would be interested in the idea of an IR transmitter on the
> people
> > and the speed difference of a non-wired system.
> >
> > Anyway, what you are talking about is a great Stamp project !
> >
> > Dave
>
> That is some great strategy on the program. I like all those ideas.
> Some more clarification about the timing of the two weapon strikes.
> Both fencers can score on any given attack and parry. The trick is
> that the second fencer only has 1/20 of a second to switch the
> switch on his tip. You would start the counter immediately when the
> first fencer switches his switch. I am sure that the stamp is more
> than capable of not allowing a hit after 1/20 of a second. That is
> the only real timing that is necessary. Usually... the second
fencer
> is not in a position to parry in the alotted time. And then
> sometimes there are some very quick blades. Anyhow, I am looking
for
> the correct kit to order. Still leaning towards the 24 input/output
> stamp. At some point I am sure we will want to get some fancier
> types of outputs, so I think the extra outputs will be used.
>
> At some point I will also need to attach some other parts to my
box.
> I am talking about the scoring lights and test lights and buzzer.
> When a score is made, there is an audible alarm and then someones
> light turns on to show who scored. Sometimes, if the parry is
quick,
> both lights will be on. The outputs of the stamp will go high to
> turn on a buzzer and then one or both scoring lights. There will
> need to be some sort of circuits to turn these 12vdc "taillights"
> on. The scoring lights are not small leds, they are larger lights
> that can be seen in a tournament. I don't think a stamp will put
out
> enough current for the lights and buzzer. I am going to build it
> using a 12vdc battery. A small, light-weight one, like a lawn
> tractor, will be easy to carry and yet add stability and weight to
> the box. The box sits at mid-court and needs some presences to keep
> it from moving too easily. Imagine something like a tall kitchen
> trash can. Heavy at the bottom and some lights on the top. The body
> cords from the fencers weapons travel to the back of the courts and
> then down the sides and into the box.
>
> Thanks for all the input. It is very much appreciated. I hope that
> my ramblings have shed some more light on the subject of Epee
> Fencing and what kinda thing scores the dual. LOL.
Comments
score in 5, 10, or 15 point matches would be better. The score
board could even be an add on box.
Data loging would be a great feature but not as nice as (encrypted)
wireless capability.
Richard
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...>
wrote:
> For this project, I thing a BS2 is all you need.
>
> Reasons,
>
> If you allow 1/20th of a second between scoring strikes the BS2 is
> fast enough.
>
> as far as outputs go, you can use a simple multiplexer to get 8
> additional outputs from 3 pins, or 16 from 4 pins so the BS2 has
the
> range of outputs you would need.
>
> You can use the low level output to a Darlington to switch a relay
or
> MOSFET. The ouput of the Stamp can connect to a 200 V / 27 amp
> MOSFET. if your lamps are larger than that, demms some BIG lamps !
>
> You can data log the event for later review, including the actual
> time between strikes, and/or you can use an LCD display for the
> coaches to see the actual time, just in case it is 1/19th of a
second
> and just a tad too slow [noparse]:([/noparse] We probably need to check the pro's on
> the timing parts.
>
> it can be run from your battery.
>
> the BS2 has the widest range of accessories. the BS1 and 40 pin
> units have their place, but they just don't have as wide a range
of
> add-on's.
>
> I think a Board of Education would be a good start as it allows
> testing for the non-electronics types, or the lightning fast
circuit
> testings.
>
> As always, this list is here for your questions.
>
> Dave
>
> http://www.visualmuses.com/chipcircuit/index.html
> Indicator lamps would be good but a digital LED display to indicate
> score in 5, 10, or 15 point matches would be better. The score
> board could even be an add on box.
>
> Data loging would be a great feature but not as nice as (encrypted)
> wireless capability.
Yeah, encrypted is a good idea. No sense people using their PALM
Pilots changing the scores !
But, wired or wireless, the LED is a nice feature. The huge ones
cost some $$, but if you have kids who want to get involved, you can
make yourself large letters with bunches of LED's on a backboard.
Still well withing the abilites of the BS2.
>
> Richard
>
> --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...>
> wrote:
> > For this project, I thing a BS2 is all you need.
> >
> > Reasons,
> >
> > If you allow 1/20th of a second between scoring strikes the BS2
is
> > fast enough.
> >
> > as far as outputs go, you can use a simple multiplexer to get 8
> > additional outputs from 3 pins, or 16 from 4 pins so the BS2 has
> the
> > range of outputs you would need.
> >
> > You can use the low level output to a Darlington to switch a
relay
> or
> > MOSFET. The ouput of the Stamp can connect to a 200 V / 27 amp
> > MOSFET. if your lamps are larger than that, demms some BIG
lamps !
> >
> > You can data log the event for later review, including the actual
> > time between strikes, and/or you can use an LCD display for the
> > coaches to see the actual time, just in case it is 1/19th of a
> second
> > and just a tad too slow [noparse]:([/noparse] We probably need to check the pro's
on
> > the timing parts.
> >
> > it can be run from your battery.
> >
> > the BS2 has the widest range of accessories. the BS1 and 40 pin
> > units have their place, but they just don't have as wide a range
> of
> > add-on's.
> >
> > I think a Board of Education would be a good start as it allows
> > testing for the non-electronics types, or the lightning fast
> circuit
> > testings.
> >
> > As always, this list is here for your questions.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > http://www.visualmuses.com/chipcircuit/index.html
So the basics have been decided on and the extras can be added
later. A proven working basic box seems to be a good place to start
and features could be added later. Now just layout, programming,
and a shopping trip.
Starter box:
BOE kit to start
1/20th delay before lockout
audible and visual alarms
.001 increments
battery operated (with mechanical lockout for external power supply)
Options for later:
data logging
LCD display for viewing data
LED display for spectators
Switchable for various rules encountered sabre and foil