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DC-motor makes BS1 act weird. Why? — Parallax Forums

DC-motor makes BS1 act weird. Why?

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2004-03-29 18:43 in General Discussion
Howdy!
I have two relay-schemes connected to two I/O on my BS1.
The

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-03-29 16:19
    Are you connected directly to the relays? Very bad news if yes. Use a
    transistor buffer between the BASIC Stamp and any high-current devices like
    relays. The other thing that you may need to do is connect a diode across the
    relay coils. When you relax the relay, the magnetic field collapse induces a
    current and that could be upsetting the BASIC Stamp.

    -- Jon Williams
    -- Applications Engineer, Parallax
    -- Dallas Office


    Original Message
    From: mikael_axen2002 [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=hzB8zddrJne0lVlLCkFcxQdDHBnQeihbt7PlUpu3hf2eCN6l2x9gN_R_LZv4_mWHGJcIZOvFJjPzO6lSEvU7oQ4]mikael_axen@h...[/url
    Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:47 AM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] DC-motor makes BS1 act weird. Why?


    Howdy!
    I have two relay-schemes connected to two I/O on my BS1.
    The
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-03-29 16:57
    Thanks for your reply!

    Yes, I have a transistor buffer, and yes, I have
    a diod across the relay coils. Does not help.
    I can control the relays without disturbing the servo,
    but as soon as I connect the DC motor, the servo goes wild.
    I have unplugged the control line to the servo, but still
    powering it, and no problem occurs. So it looks like it´s
    the signal line from BS1 that makes the servo crazy ...
    More ideas ? (please ...)

    / Mike



    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Williams" <jwilliams@p...>
    wrote:
    > Are you connected directly to the relays? Very bad news if yes.
    Use a transistor buffer between the BASIC Stamp and any high-current
    devices like relays. The other thing that you may need to do is
    connect a diode across the relay coils. When you relax the relay,
    the magnetic field collapse induces a current and that could be
    upsetting the BASIC Stamp.
    >
    > -- Jon Williams
    > -- Applications Engineer, Parallax
    > -- Dallas Office
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: mikael_axen2002 [noparse][[/noparse]mailto:mikael_axen@h...]
    > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:47 AM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] DC-motor makes BS1 act weird. Why?
    >
    >
    > Howdy!
    > I have two relay-schemes connected to two I/O on my BS1.
    > The ídea is that one relay controls a DC motor on/off, and the
    other reverses the polarity (to the DC motor) to control
    forward/backward. The motors are powered by a 2x1.5v battery pack
    (1.5v per direction). The BS1 is powered by a 9v battery. I also have
    a servo to steer the craft with, this is powered by a 4x1.5v
    batterypack.
    > The DC motor is taken from a cheap wired control toycar.
    > Now to the *problem* : When I run the DC motor, the servo goes
    wild, uncontrallable. Just controlling the relays works fine! Just
    controlling the servo works fine! The problem occurs only when
    actually running the DC motor. I think maybe the DC motor creates
    some AC that somehow goes into BS1? Maybe a capacitor to ground could
    help? But how big in that case...? Any ideas are appreciated!
    >
    > Thanks!
    > Mike / Sweden
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-03-29 18:15
    Just a thought, but has anyone on the forum mentioned using ferrite beads on
    external I/O leads to shunt out RF trash? Also, does everyone know about
    stacking little picofarad-range disc caps on top of electrolyte caps. Since
    electrolytic caps are rolled up inside, they have a lot of inductance which
    will present a high impedance to RFI. I suspect that many users are simply
    putting big honking 1,000 microfarad caps across the power supply feeds,
    which will help with sagging supplies from current draw, but will let
    high-frequency garbage zing right on through. Every external line used in a
    shared RFI/Computer environment (and yes, as Basic Stamp is certainly a
    computer, and yes relay coils and such can generate RFI) needs to be
    properly terminated, shielded, and RFI protected. Noise is a bad thing....

    Mike Sokol
    mike@f...
    www.fitsandstarts.com

    " One should not increase, beyond what is necessary,
    the number of entities required to explain anything"...
    -William of Occam-


    Original Message
    From: "mikaelaxen" <micke.axen@t...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:57 AM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: DC-motor makes BS1 act weird. Why?


    Thanks for your reply!

    Yes, I have a transistor buffer, and yes, I have
    a diod across the relay coils. Does not help.
    I can control the relays without disturbing the servo,
    but as soon as I connect the DC motor, the servo goes wild.
    I have unplugged the control line to the servo, but still
    powering it, and no problem occurs. So it looks like it´s
    the signal line from BS1 that makes the servo crazy ...
    More ideas ? (please ...)

    / Mike



    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Williams" <jwilliams@p...>
    wrote:
    > Are you connected directly to the relays? Very bad news if yes.
    Use a transistor buffer between the BASIC Stamp and any high-current
    devices like relays. The other thing that you may need to do is
    connect a diode across the relay coils. When you relax the relay,
    the magnetic field collapse induces a current and that could be
    upsetting the BASIC Stamp.
    >
    > -- Jon Williams
    > -- Applications Engineer, Parallax
    > -- Dallas Office
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: mikael_axen2002 [noparse][[/noparse]mailto:mikael_axen@h...]
    > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:47 AM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] DC-motor makes BS1 act weird. Why?
    >
    >
    > Howdy!
    > I have two relay-schemes connected to two I/O on my BS1.
    > The ídea is that one relay controls a DC motor on/off, and the
    other reverses the polarity (to the DC motor) to control
    forward/backward. The motors are powered by a 2x1.5v battery pack
    (1.5v per direction). The BS1 is powered by a 9v battery. I also have
    a servo to steer the craft with, this is powered by a 4x1.5v
    batterypack.
    > The DC motor is taken from a cheap wired control toycar.
    > Now to the *problem* : When I run the DC motor, the servo goes
    wild, uncontrallable. Just controlling the relays works fine! Just
    controlling the servo works fine! The problem occurs only when
    actually running the DC motor. I think maybe the DC motor creates
    some AC that somehow goes into BS1? Maybe a capacitor to ground could
    help? But how big in that case...? Any ideas are appreciated!
    >
    > Thanks!
    > Mike / Sweden




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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-03-29 18:25
    If possible treat the motor as a relay coil BEFORE the
    relay that controls direction and place a diode in reverse
    bias there. From the sounds of it, you are driving your
    motor in a half-bridge configuration with the relays. This
    is fine but may not be conducive to adding diodes.

    Another approach (AND/OR with the above) is to use a delta
    capacitor pattern between the motor and ground.

    GND <---||---o---||---o---||---> GND
    A B
    Note:
    - A and B terminals go across your motor.
    - ALL capacitors are .1uF ceramic disc type.

    The statement you make "The DC motor is taken from a cheap
    wired control toycar" says it all. The brushes on these
    type of motors generate LOTS of noise. The capacitor
    scheme above should clean a majority of this up.

    >Thanks for your reply!
    >
    >Yes, I have a transistor buffer, and yes, I have
    >a diod across the relay coils. Does not help.
    >I can control the relays without disturbing the servo,
    >but as soon as I connect the DC motor, the servo goes wild.
    >I have unplugged the control line to the servo, but still
    >powering it, and no problem occurs. So it looks like it´s
    >the signal line from BS1 that makes the servo crazy ...
    >More ideas ? (please ...)
    >
    >/ Mike
    >
    >
    >
    >--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Williams" <jwilliams@p...>
    >wrote:
    > > Are you connected directly to the relays? Very bad news if yes.
    >Use a transistor buffer between the BASIC Stamp and any high-current
    >devices like relays. The other thing that you may need to do is
    >connect a diode across the relay coils. When you relax the relay,
    >the magnetic field collapse induces a current and that could be
    >upsetting the BASIC Stamp.
    > >
    > > -- Jon Williams
    > > -- Applications Engineer, Parallax
    > > -- Dallas Office
    > >
    > >
    > >
    Original Message
    > > From: mikael_axen2002 [noparse][[/noparse]mailto:mikael_axen@h...]
    > > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:47 AM
    > > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] DC-motor makes BS1 act weird. Why?
    > >
    > >
    > > Howdy!
    > > I have two relay-schemes connected to two I/O on my BS1.
    > > The ídea is that one relay controls a DC motor on/off, and the
    >other reverses the polarity (to the DC motor) to control
    >forward/backward. The motors are powered by a 2x1.5v battery pack
    >(1.5v per direction). The BS1 is powered by a 9v battery. I also have
    >a servo to steer the craft with, this is powered by a 4x1.5v
    >batterypack.
    > > The DC motor is taken from a cheap wired control toycar.
    > > Now to the *problem* : When I run the DC motor, the servo goes
    >wild, uncontrallable. Just controlling the relays works fine! Just
    >controlling the servo works fine! The problem occurs only when
    >actually running the DC motor. I think maybe the DC motor creates
    >some AC that somehow goes into BS1? Maybe a capacitor to ground could
    >help? But how big in that case...? Any ideas are appreciated!
    > >
    > > Thanks!
    > > Mike / Sweden
    >
    >

    Beau Schwabe Mask Designer National Semiconductor Corporation
    500 Pinnacle Court, Suite 525
    Home: polygon_man@h... Mail Stop GA1
    Work: bschwabe@a... Norcross, GA 30071
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-03-29 18:31
    At 03:57 PM 3/29/04 +0000, mikaelaxen wrote:
    >Thanks for your reply!
    >
    >Yes, I have a transistor buffer, and yes, I have
    >a diod across the relay coils. Does not help.
    >I can control the relays without disturbing the servo,
    >but as soon as I connect the DC motor, the servo goes wild.
    >I have unplugged the control line to the servo, but still
    >powering it, and no problem occurs. So it looks like it´s
    >the signal line from BS1 that makes the servo crazy ...
    >More ideas ? (please ...)
    >
    >/ Mike

    Mike -

    Are all your grounds tied to one common point ? If not, they need to be.

    Bruce Bates





    >--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Williams" <jwilliams@p...>
    >wrote:
    >> Are you connected directly to the relays? Very bad news if yes.
    >Use a transistor buffer between the BASIC Stamp and any high-current
    >devices like relays. The other thing that you may need to do is
    >connect a diode across the relay coils. When you relax the relay,
    >the magnetic field collapse induces a current and that could be
    >upsetting the BASIC Stamp.
    >>
    >> -- Jon Williams
    >> -- Applications Engineer, Parallax
    >> -- Dallas Office
    >>
    >>
    >>
    Original Message
    >> From: mikael_axen2002 [noparse][[/noparse]mailto:mikael_axen@h...]
    >> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:47 AM
    >> To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    >> Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] DC-motor makes BS1 act weird. Why?
    >>
    >>
    >> Howdy!
    >> I have two relay-schemes connected to two I/O on my BS1.
    >> The ídea is that one relay controls a DC motor on/off, and the
    >other reverses the polarity (to the DC motor) to control
    >forward/backward. The motors are powered by a 2x1.5v battery pack
    >(1.5v per direction). The BS1 is powered by a 9v battery. I also have
    >a servo to steer the craft with, this is powered by a 4x1.5v
    >batterypack.
    >> The DC motor is taken from a cheap wired control toycar.
    >> Now to the *problem* : When I run the DC motor, the servo goes
    >wild, uncontrallable. Just controlling the relays works fine! Just
    >controlling the servo works fine! The problem occurs only when
    >actually running the DC motor. I think maybe the DC motor creates
    >some AC that somehow goes into BS1? Maybe a capacitor to ground could
    >help? But how big in that case...? Any ideas are appreciated!
    >>
    >> Thanks!
    >> Mike / Sweden
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
    of the message will be ignored.
    >
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    >
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-03-29 18:38
    At 12:31 PM 3/29/04 -0500, you wrote:
    >At 03:57 PM 3/29/04 +0000, mikaelaxen wrote:
    > >Thanks for your reply!
    > >
    > >Yes, I have a transistor buffer, and yes, I have
    > >a diod across the relay coils. Does not help.
    > >I can control the relays without disturbing the servo,
    > >but as soon as I connect the DC motor, the servo goes wild.
    > >I have unplugged the control line to the servo, but still
    > >powering it, and no problem occurs. So it looks like it´s
    > >the signal line from BS1 that makes the servo crazy ...
    > >More ideas ? (please ...)
    > >
    > >/ Mike
    >
    >Mike -
    >
    >Are all your grounds tied to one common point ? If not, they need to be.
    >
    >Bruce Bates

    Bruce,
    He's not going to be able to do this easily with a "split" power
    supply driving the motor. (Half-Bridge)

    In his case it might be better to connect all of the grounds
    EXCEPT the motor circuit, thus completely isolating both power
    and ground of the motor.


    > >--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Williams" <jwilliams@p...>
    > >wrote:
    > >> Are you connected directly to the relays? Very bad news if yes.
    > >Use a transistor buffer between the BASIC Stamp and any high-current
    > >devices like relays. The other thing that you may need to do is
    > >connect a diode across the relay coils. When you relax the relay,
    > >the magnetic field collapse induces a current and that could be
    > >upsetting the BASIC Stamp.
    > >>
    > >> -- Jon Williams
    > >> -- Applications Engineer, Parallax
    > >> -- Dallas Office
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Howdy!
    > >> I have two relay-schemes connected to two I/O on my BS1.
    > >> The ídea is that one relay controls a DC motor on/off, and the
    > >other reverses the polarity (to the DC motor) to control
    > >forward/backward. The motors are powered by a 2x1.5v battery pack
    > >(1.5v per direction). The BS1 is powered by a 9v battery. I also have
    > >a servo to steer the craft with, this is powered by a 4x1.5v
    > >batterypack.
    > >> The DC motor is taken from a cheap wired control toycar.
    > >> Now to the *problem* : When I run the DC motor, the servo goes
    > >wild, uncontrallable. Just controlling the relays works fine! Just
    > >controlling the servo works fine! The problem occurs only when
    > >actually running the DC motor. I think maybe the DC motor creates
    > >some AC that somehow goes into BS1? Maybe a capacitor to ground could
    > >help? But how big in that case...? Any ideas are appreciated!
    > >>
    > >> Thanks!
    > >> Mike / Sweden

    Beau Schwabe Mask Designer National Semiconductor Corporation
    500 Pinnacle Court, Suite 525
    Home: polygon_man@h... Mail Stop GA1
    Work: bschwabe@a... Norcross, GA 30071
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2004-03-29 18:43
    Hi Mike,

    Try connecting the motor casing to ground. I experienced a similar problem
    controlling a DC motor with a relay and a BS2-IC, but it solved the problem.
    Good luck.

    Best regards,

    Russell Warburton
    email: russell@w...
    website: http://www.warburtech.com
    telephone: +44 (0)7814 044 754

    Original Message
    From: "mikaelaxen" <micke.axen@t...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 4:57 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: DC-motor makes BS1 act weird. Why?


    Thanks for your reply!

    Yes, I have a transistor buffer, and yes, I have
    a diod across the relay coils. Does not help.
    I can control the relays without disturbing the servo,
    but as soon as I connect the DC motor, the servo goes wild.
    I have unplugged the control line to the servo, but still
    powering it, and no problem occurs. So it looks like it´s
    the signal line from BS1 that makes the servo crazy ...
    More ideas ? (please ...)

    / Mike



    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Williams" <jwilliams@p...>
    wrote:
    > Are you connected directly to the relays? Very bad news if yes.
    Use a transistor buffer between the BASIC Stamp and any high-current
    devices like relays. The other thing that you may need to do is
    connect a diode across the relay coils. When you relax the relay,
    the magnetic field collapse induces a current and that could be
    upsetting the BASIC Stamp.
    >
    > -- Jon Williams
    > -- Applications Engineer, Parallax
    > -- Dallas Office
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: mikael_axen2002 [noparse][[/noparse]mailto:mikael_axen@h...]
    > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:47 AM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] DC-motor makes BS1 act weird. Why?
    >
    >
    > Howdy!
    > I have two relay-schemes connected to two I/O on my BS1.
    > The ídea is that one relay controls a DC motor on/off, and the
    other reverses the polarity (to the DC motor) to control
    forward/backward. The motors are powered by a 2x1.5v battery pack
    (1.5v per direction). The BS1 is powered by a 9v battery. I also have
    a servo to steer the craft with, this is powered by a 4x1.5v
    batterypack.
    > The DC motor is taken from a cheap wired control toycar.
    > Now to the *problem* : When I run the DC motor, the servo goes
    wild, uncontrallable. Just controlling the relays works fine! Just
    controlling the servo works fine! The problem occurs only when
    actually running the DC motor. I think maybe the DC motor creates
    some AC that somehow goes into BS1? Maybe a capacitor to ground could
    help? But how big in that case...? Any ideas are appreciated!
    >
    > Thanks!
    > Mike / Sweden




    To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.

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