alternitives to bs2 chipset,
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Posts: 46,084
how else can i cut cost of building boards that the bs2 was
controlling,, looks like i need 12 - 14 i/o,, im intrustred in
knowing how to gain the ebility to utilize burenable chips too, i
hear there dirt cheap,, im already looking into 555ic to iliminate
some of the i/o needed. what do i need to "burn chips" where do i
get blanks , also does ne one have a schematic of how to wire the
bs2 chip in a socket,, to alow for 9 volt power source,, and serial
for programing,and a reset buton, i need pin conections, and pin to
serial diagram would be sweet, using this chip removed h from
[url=ttp://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=BS2-IC]ttp://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=BS2-IC[/url]
this is the style of chips i want to use, somehting cheape though,,
maybee some that are not reprogramable and some that are, but hwo do
i burn them what do i need , can i build it thnx for helping
controlling,, looks like i need 12 - 14 i/o,, im intrustred in
knowing how to gain the ebility to utilize burenable chips too, i
hear there dirt cheap,, im already looking into 555ic to iliminate
some of the i/o needed. what do i need to "burn chips" where do i
get blanks , also does ne one have a schematic of how to wire the
bs2 chip in a socket,, to alow for 9 volt power source,, and serial
for programing,and a reset buton, i need pin conections, and pin to
serial diagram would be sweet, using this chip removed h from
[url=ttp://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=BS2-IC]ttp://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=BS2-IC[/url]
this is the style of chips i want to use, somehting cheape though,,
maybee some that are not reprogramable and some that are, but hwo do
i burn them what do i need , can i build it thnx for helping
Comments
"Programming and customizing PICmicro Microcontrollers", Myke Predko,
2nd Ed, McGraw Hill, 2000.
Dennis
Original Message
From: jutsuju [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=8PT8DP7HR6CiqI5t1txAtYZrvf-aVHppmzNw1uh0ar5_VrN_5DIwX_PvL0HDgtMEpNMqCCfjG1sC_1UQhw]xsavior38@h...[/url
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 8:53 PM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] alternitives to bs2 chipset,
how else can i cut cost of building boards that the bs2 was
controlling,, looks like i need 12 - 14 i/o,, im intrustred in
knowing how to gain the ebility to utilize burenable chips too, i
hear there dirt cheap,, im already looking into 555ic to iliminate
some of the i/o needed. what do i need to "burn chips" where do i
get blanks , also does ne one have a schematic of how to wire the
bs2 chip in a socket,, to alow for 9 volt power source,, and serial
for programing,and a reset buton, i need pin conections, and pin to
serial diagram would be sweet, using this chip removed h from
[url=ttp://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=BS2-IC]ttp://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=BS2-IC[/url]
this is the style of chips i want to use, somehting cheape though,,
maybee some that are not reprogramable and some that are, but hwo do
i burn them what do i need , can i build it thnx for helping
> how else can i cut cost of building boards that the bs2 was
> controlling,, looks like i need 12 - 14 i/o,, im intrustred in
> knowing how to gain the ebility to utilize burenable chips too, i
> hear there dirt cheap,, im already looking into 555ic to iliminate
> some of the i/o needed. what do i need to "burn chips" where do i
> get blanks , also does ne one have a schematic of how to wire the
> bs2 chip in a socket,, to alow for 9 volt power source,, and serial
> for programing,and a reset buton, i need pin conections, and pin to
> serial diagram would be sweet, using this chip removed h from
> [url=ttp://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=BS2-IC]ttp://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=BS2-IC[/url]
> this is the style of chips i want to use, somehting cheape though,,
> maybee some that are not reprogramable and some that are, but hwo
do
> i burn them what do i need , can i build it thnx for helping
If you design your own board around the BS2 Interpreter chip and buy
in volume, you can buy the BS2 Interpreter for $7 (DIP) or $5 (Surface
Mount). For more info - go here:
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=PBASIC2C/P
and here
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=PBASIC2C/SS
do it is buy purchasing our chip set. We put the interpreter into the
chips -- this is our intellectual property and we do not release it for
you to burn it into the chip yourself.
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=PBASIC2C/P
You other alternative is a compiler -- there are a bunch out there but
not (that I'm aware of) that are 100% compatible with PBASIC as we've
defined it.
-- Jon Williams
-- Applications Engineer, Parallax
-- Dallas Office
Original Message
From: jutsuju [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=TQKXievGs6QNIWDUNnCEBjqsU0fR4FiiQc47oqW5IRRKR7SH_kSKhdvzyzyUvRK_Q9z2lniGAP_WSCThuqTu]xsavior38@h...[/url
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 10:53 PM
To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] alternitives to bs2 chipset,
how else can i cut cost of building boards that the bs2 was
controlling,, looks like i need 12 - 14 i/o,, im intrustred in
knowing how to gain the ebility to utilize burenable chips too, i
hear there dirt cheap,, im already looking into 555ic to iliminate
some of the i/o needed. what do i need to "burn chips" where do i
get blanks , also does ne one have a schematic of how to wire the
bs2 chip in a socket,, to alow for 9 volt power source,, and serial
for programing,and a reset buton, i need pin conections, and pin to
serial diagram would be sweet, using this chip removed h from
[url=ttp://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=BS2-IC]ttp://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=BS2-IC[/url]
this is the style of chips i want to use, somehting cheape though,,
maybee some that are not reprogramable and some that are, but hwo do
i burn them what do i need , can i build it thnx for helping
> how else can i cut cost of building boards that the bs2 was
> controlling,, looks like i need 12 - 14 i/o,, im intrustred in
> knowing how to gain the ebility to utilize burenable chips too, i
> hear there dirt cheap,, im already looking into 555ic to iliminate
> some of the i/o needed. what do i need to "burn chips" where do i
> get blanks , also does ne one have a schematic of how to wire the
> bs2 chip in a socket,, to alow for 9 volt power source,, and serial
> for programing,and a reset buton, i need pin conections, and pin to
> serial diagram would be sweet, using this chip removed h from
> [url=ttp://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=BS2-IC]ttp://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=BS2-IC[/url]
> this is the style of chips i want to use, somehting cheape though,,
> maybee some that are not reprogramable and some that are, but hwo
do
> i burn them what do i need , can i build it thnx for helping
Hi,
This comes up once in awhile on this list.
The need to have a lower cost device can drive one to seek additional
suppliers.
Considering that you already have a need for 10 or more, you are
faced with some considerations.
One is the expense of new software and hardware and the time it takes
to learn a new software language or the differences in the language
for the new chips.
Consider that you can easily spend $250.00 for a Basic software
package and another 50 in hardware.
Balance that with roughly $10.00 per chip for the Stamp OEM chip.
Actually more than that because of the support chips, but still the
total project cost will be lower for Stamp for the first 20 or so
units.
If your goal is to cut costs, then that is the first place to look.
Also, with only 12 to 14 I/O's you should be about to take advantage
of the serial input and serial output expander chips to reduce pin
counts use.
The cost per chip is only one part of the project. As your quantity
increases, the chip costs decrease so the OEM path offers a pretty
good route.
When you say, 'dirt cheap' you may be comparing apples to oranges.
The BS2 is a complete circuit board with voltage regulator, EPROM
(memory) and microprocessor.
If you do a price comparison of your needs for your boards, you will
find that you need to make a lot of boards before the cost of the
Stamps exceeds that of the cost of the platform (hardware and
software) for your using other chips.
Just as a quick comparison, say a chip costs $3 and the Stamp costs
$10.00.
The 250 for software and say, 50 for hardware.
it would take 40 Parallax chips at $10 to reach $400.00
and with a starting cost of about $300.00 and adding 40 chips at
$3.00 each, you will be at $420.00 for the same 40 total chips.
The cost per board may actually be higher with other chips but you
can use the OEM Stamp today. you will need to learn the language to
program for other chips.
On the other hand, other chips have some features you do not get on
the Stamp, they cost more, often a lot more than $3.00 so the prices
will go up.
I guess the bottom line is that chip cost alone is not the answer.
But, if you want to get more information, Google MICROCONTROLLER and
start reading.
Read the data sheet on the chip on the Stamp you are using. the BS2
uses the PIC 16C57C-20 chip. (about $4.00 for single units,
including the crystal needed for the chip, but not including the
capacitors for the crystal)
Before you decide, lay out a real comparison for each chip. Lay out
the board using both types and add up the total board costs.
You may be surprized at what you find.
Also, someone should write this up as either an up-grade guide or a
cost comparison so we only have to post the url for it.
Dave
where to start? or other books , i am so willing to hit the books
and elarn more
ones? its just in diferent form right,, could still hook up serial,
at elast the 16 i / o? or arethese the kind you burn once, its
imparative for one of my projecs it be repriogramable,,but i also
need to know about burnable,, is there some sort of literature as
to what this perticular chip does, or is it exactly the same as my
bs2 on my homework board other then the fact its in ic form, rather
then a board, if this si the case its exactly what i want,,
>
> If you design your own board around the BS2 Interpreter chip and
buy
> in volume, you can buy the BS2 Interpreter for $7 (DIP) or $5
(Surface
> Mount). For more info - go here:
> http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=PBASIC2C/P
> and here
> http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=PBASIC2C/SS
I understand the basic approach to your Stamps vs. PICs break-even analysis,
but am confused by some of the cost figures, which could have a significant
effect on the break-even point. Maybe you could tell me if I'm overlooking
something...
>> it would take 40 Parallax chips at $10 to reach $400.00
To get even close to $10 per chip for the BS2 interpreter DIP IC, you're
talking at least 500 pieces at $12.50 ($6,250 total) based on what I'm
seeing at:
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=PBASIC2C/P
> Balance that with roughly $10.00 per chip for the Stamp OEM chip.
> Actually more than that because of the support chips, but still the
> total project cost will be lower for Stamp for the first 20 or so
> units.
I'm trying to work this out using your figure of "20 or so units"...
Including 20 PICs at $3 ($2.50 or less is actually more realistic) and the
$300 investment in tools to get very nicely set up, I'm coming up with $360.
Depending on your application, the PIC might not need a resonator, since
many of the low-end PICs now come with a "precision" internal oscillator.
Worst case, both the Stamp IC and PIC need a resonator, which is then a
wash.
It looks like the BS2 interpreter DIP IC is $21.25 each for 20 pieces.
Plus, you must also have the EEPROM (which Parallax sells for $5.00 each up
to 25 pieces). Yes you can get it cheaper elsewhere. You'd also need the
20 MHz Murata resonator for a minimum configuration, which Parallax sells
for $2.23 at 10 to 20 pieces.
Let's be generous and say that you could get the BS2 interpreter plus the
EEPROM and resonator for $23.00 per set. So the Stamp OEM component route
for 20 units looks like $460 -- a $100 difference.
And, if your product is wildly successful and you need to make more than 20
units, you're looking at an additional $3 each for the PICs (probably less),
vs. $21.25 each for the OEM Stamp components -- which could be more or less,
depending on the quantity.
Am I missing something?
Randy
www.glitchbuster.com
> Hi,
>
> This comes up once in awhile on this list.
>
> The need to have a lower cost device can drive one to seek additional
> suppliers.
>
> Considering that you already have a need for 10 or more, you are
> faced with some considerations.
>
> One is the expense of new software and hardware and the time it takes
> to learn a new software language or the differences in the language
> for the new chips.
>
> Consider that you can easily spend $250.00 for a Basic software
> package and another 50 in hardware.
>
>
> Balance that with roughly $10.00 per chip for the Stamp OEM chip.
> Actually more than that because of the support chips, but still the
> total project cost will be lower for Stamp for the first 20 or so
> units.
>
>
> If your goal is to cut costs, then that is the first place to look.
>
> Also, with only 12 to 14 I/O's you should be about to take advantage
> of the serial input and serial output expander chips to reduce pin
> counts use.
>
> The cost per chip is only one part of the project. As your quantity
> increases, the chip costs decrease so the OEM path offers a pretty
> good route.
>
> When you say, 'dirt cheap' you may be comparing apples to oranges.
>
> The BS2 is a complete circuit board with voltage regulator, EPROM
> (memory) and microprocessor.
>
> If you do a price comparison of your needs for your boards, you will
> find that you need to make a lot of boards before the cost of the
> Stamps exceeds that of the cost of the platform (hardware and
> software) for your using other chips.
>
> Just as a quick comparison, say a chip costs $3 and the Stamp costs
> $10.00.
>
> The 250 for software and say, 50 for hardware.
> it would take 40 Parallax chips at $10 to reach $400.00
> and with a starting cost of about $300.00 and adding 40 chips at
> $3.00 each, you will be at $420.00 for the same 40 total chips.
>
> The cost per board may actually be higher with other chips but you
> can use the OEM Stamp today. you will need to learn the language to
> program for other chips.
>
> On the other hand, other chips have some features you do not get on
> the Stamp, they cost more, often a lot more than $3.00 so the prices
> will go up.
>
> I guess the bottom line is that chip cost alone is not the answer.
>
> But, if you want to get more information, Google MICROCONTROLLER and
> start reading.
>
> Read the data sheet on the chip on the Stamp you are using. the BS2
> uses the PIC 16C57C-20 chip. (about $4.00 for single units,
> including the crystal needed for the chip, but not including the
> capacitors for the crystal)
>
> Before you decide, lay out a real comparison for each chip. Lay out
> the board using both types and add up the total board costs.
>
> You may be surprized at what you find.
>
> Also, someone should write this up as either an up-grade guide or a
> cost comparison so we only have to post the url for it.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
> basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
Body of the message will be ignored.
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>
>
>
>
>
to function and run programs. I suggest you do some more reading on
the subject to see if this is the right solution for your project. The
reference manual for the BS2 Homework board includes a complete
schematic showing the additional parts required. You can download it here
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=28158
--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "jutsuju" <xsavior38@h...> wrote:
> if i use these chips, can i get the same functionality as the 50 $
> ones? its just in diferent form right,, could still hook up serial,
> at elast the 16 i / o? or arethese the kind you burn once, its
> imparative for one of my projecs it be repriogramable,,but i also
> need to know about burnable,, is there some sort of literature as
> to what this perticular chip does, or is it exactly the same as my
> bs2 on my homework board other then the fact its in ic form, rather
> then a board, if this si the case its exactly what i want,,
>
> >
> > If you design your own board around the BS2 Interpreter chip and
> buy
> > in volume, you can buy the BS2 Interpreter for $7 (DIP) or $5
> (Surface
> > Mount). For more info - go here:
> > http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=PBASIC2C/P
> > and here
> > http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=PBASIC2C/SS